Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2020 12:40:14 GMT
Doesn't bode well for the traditional clasic who 4 parter. If everything becomes a 2 parter or a nuwho style 50 minute episode I will not be a happy customer Probably part of their plan to attract a new audience. Could be. I've also heard the word 'cost effective' being used a few times. Perhaps it is simply a cheaper way of producing stories? To be blunt, I have little interest in stories for the classic Doctors that aren't four (or occasionally six) episodes long. An occasional single disc tale is okay, but only if the plot demands it, and as an exception to the 'rule'.
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Post by theillusiveman on Jun 13, 2020 12:46:42 GMT
Huh i had written a reply and posted it but for some reason it didn't post? Maybe i deleted it by accident. Anyway not sure I like the idea of moving to 3 disc bosets across the board, presumably this would rule out 2 part stories (a boxset of 1x2 disc and 1x1 disc seems a odd format, and getting a trilogy of stories to a set is probably a better marketing hook) and I've really enjoyed the mix of one/two part stories we've got in recent 8th Doctor boxsets, four discs gives a boxset more room to breath rather than feeling just a beginning middle and end... Doesn't bode well for the traditional clasic who 4 parter. If everything becomes a 2 parter or a nuwho style 50 minute episode I will not be a happy customer Yeah i wonder if this will affect the downloads too- i mean if the stories are going to be restructured for a more New Series/ 8th Doctor structure or are they going to ditch the special features (behind the scenes interviews)
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Post by Audio Watchdog on Jun 13, 2020 12:58:15 GMT
A very smart writer once told me that good stories are just the right length. So I don’t worry so much about 4 parts at :25 minutes or 1 episode at :50. This CD news says to me Big Finish is looking at long term viability for a future that continues to include physical product. We don’t know their production costs, we don’t know their sales numbers and we don’t have access to the P&L statements. So I’m going to believe them when they say things need to change for them to maintain profitability.
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Post by themeddlingmonk on Jun 13, 2020 12:58:44 GMT
I reckon the “Doctor Who” releases (and main series Torchwood) will stick to the four discs a set format, but the spin offs will move towards three.
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aztec
Chancellery Guard
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Post by aztec on Jun 13, 2020 13:32:47 GMT
Doesn't bode well for the traditional clasic who 4 parter. If everything becomes a 2 parter or a nuwho style 50 minute episode I will not be a happy customer Probably part of their plan to attract a new audience. At the risk of alienating some of the long term listeners Audio Drama is a niche format anyway, but a large part of Bf's appeal for me is the nostalgia factor getting to hear new stories reflecting the tone and style of the classic serials...I dunno something just seems a bit odd about say doing a new who style 50 minute romp with the tardis team from 1977, when they have New Who Doctors/character to tell those kind of stories with already...I'm sure there are good business/marketing/financial reasons from streamlining things and working to a regular format, but applying this structure to everything could make things feel a bit identikit i.m.o...
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Post by Audio Watchdog on Jun 13, 2020 14:13:17 GMT
Probably part of their plan to attract a new audience. At the risk of alienating some of the long term listeners Audio Drama is a niche format anyway, but a large part of Bf's appeal for me is the nostalgia factor getting to hear new stories reflecting the tone and style of the classic serials...I dunno something just seems a bit odd about say doing a new who style 50 minute romp with the tardis team from 1977, when they have New Who Doctors/character to tell those kind of stories with already...I'm sure there are good business/marketing/financial reasons from streamlining things and working to a regular format, but applying this structure to everything could make things feel a bit identikit i.m.o... I would argue a three disc format allows them to tell whatever kind of story they want to. 2 discs could be a traditional Who four-parter with a two-part story or a 50 minute story. Or it could be a 6 hour self-isolated story. Or a combination of several things.
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Post by tuigirl on Jun 13, 2020 16:01:34 GMT
I am just going to chime in with a positive note. I am happy that there will be more stories. Whatever format they may take. And the three disc format is nothing completely new, and has worked quite alright for the Paternosters and Robots for example. Most of those were not terrible bad stories and in my humble opinion, were actually better than many of the average 4th and 8th Doctor adventures stories I have heard so far. So I keep my hopes up that the quality will not go down along with the change in format.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2020 16:18:52 GMT
I've also heard the word 'cost effective' being used a few times. Perhaps it is simply a cheaper way of producing stories? I don't have a problem with 'cost effective'. Big Finish are a company and I accept it's about making as much £ as possible for any business, so if box sets make Big Finish more money than their monthly Main Range releases, say so. It the spin of them saying they want to cater for newbies which pisses me off, as it basically means my twenty years of purchasing their products has counted for nothing and it's the [potential] new audience that has to be pandered to. I can understand one format being more cost effective than another. So by all means cater for a new audience, but try and look after the customers that have kept you in business for the last two decades as well!
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lidar2
Castellan
You know, now that you mention it, I actually do rather like Attack of the Cybermen ...
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Post by lidar2 on Jun 13, 2020 16:44:59 GMT
So I’m going to believe them when they say things need to change for them to maintain profitability. Have they said that? I thought it was because they felt the MR in its current form was off-putting to new listeners and the new format would be more accessible and an easier jumping on point for new listeners. (The danger for them is that if not handled well it becomes a jumping off point for current listeners)
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mbt66
Chancellery Guard
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Post by mbt66 on Jun 13, 2020 17:29:41 GMT
I've also heard the word 'cost effective' being used a few times. Perhaps it is simply a cheaper way of producing stories? I don't have a problem with 'cost effective'. Big Finish are a company and I accept it's about making as much £ as possible for any business, so if box sets make Big Finish more money than their monthly Main Range releases, say so. It the spin of them saying they want to cater for newbies which pisses me off, as it basically means my twenty years of purchasing their products has counted for nothing and it's the [potential] new audience that has to be pandered to. I can understand one format being more cost effective than another. So by all means cater for a new audience, but try and look after the customers that have kept you in business for the last two decades as well! All businesses seem to be after the younger audience/customer. I can see the logic if getting them young you will hopefully keep them for a long time, but what happens when they get a little older and are no longer your target audience... The older generation have more disposable income than the younger generation. Big Finish is in a comparatively expensive, niche and non-essential market place. Hopefully Big Finish know their existing and potential audience requirements and will cater for them both.
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Post by Audio Watchdog on Jun 13, 2020 19:52:42 GMT
So I’m going to believe them when they say things need to change for them to maintain profitability. Have they said that? I thought it was because they felt the MR in its current form was off-putting to new listeners and the new format would be more accessible and an easier jumping on point for new listeners. (The danger for them is that if not handled well it becomes a jumping off point for current listeners) Making releases more accessible and easier to jump on to for new listeners is all about expanding their customer base and translates to profitability.
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lidar2
Castellan
You know, now that you mention it, I actually do rather like Attack of the Cybermen ...
Likes: 5,819
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Post by lidar2 on Jun 13, 2020 20:43:42 GMT
Have they said that? I thought it was because they felt the MR in its current form was off-putting to new listeners and the new format would be more accessible and an easier jumping on point for new listeners. (The danger for them is that if not handled well it becomes a jumping off point for current listeners) Making releases more accessible and easier to jump on to for new listeners is all about expanding their customer base and translates to profitability. Maintainig profitability, as your previous post said, and growing profitabiltyas your above post seems to be tallong about, are 2 different things. If are profits are declining or look likely to decline - and we don't know if they are or not - then their objective is to maintain profitability. If profits are holding up well, and Jason simply wants more profit, then it is about growing profitability. We don't know which of the 2 is driving this, all they have said is that it is about getting new customers. That's why I queried your previous post that said it was about maintainibg profitability - I don't think we know that.
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Post by chronotis on Jun 14, 2020 2:25:18 GMT
It the spin of them saying they want to cater for newbies which pisses me off, as it basically means my twenty years of purchasing their products has counted for nothing and it's the [potential] new audience that has to be pandered to. I can understand one format being more cost effective than another. So by all means cater for a new audience, but try and look after the customers that have kept you in business for the last two decades as well! Does it mean that the past 20 years has counted for nothing? Surely 20 years of purchasing means that you have 20 years worth of content to listen to.
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Post by polly on Jun 14, 2020 6:14:17 GMT
Have they said that? I thought it was because they felt the MR in its current form was off-putting to new listeners and the new format would be more accessible and an easier jumping on point for new listeners. (The danger for them is that if not handled well it becomes a jumping off point for current listeners) Making releases more accessible and easier to jump on to for new listeners is all about expanding their customer base and translates to profitability. I'm honestly not sure how much of a market there is to expand to begin with, if we're talking about a younger and hipper crowd. The way I see it is this, in order to be a Big Finish MR customer, you most likely have to tick off a fair number of boxes. - You have to like classic Doctor Who, which is much less popular than the new series. - You have to be interested in audio drama, which these days is quite a niche form of entertainment in many of the countries where Doctor Who is most popular. - Then, unless you stick with the first 100, you have to be willing to pay a pretty hefty going rate compared to competing entertainment purchases, so therefore you have to have a fair bit of disposable income if you are to be a regular customer. You could wait for sales, but Big Finish relies on subscriptions and pre-orders, so we're told, so that doesn't help them all that much. So what's to be done? I certainly understand why the folks at Big Finish might look at that and decide something ought to change. I don't think the pricing is likely to change dramatically, so we're already throwing out most of the cheapskates. Moving box sets from 4 discs to 3 with an appropriate price drop might help, but I'm still not so sure. I find (anecdotally) people my own age (30) and younger are not all that interested in audio-only except in the form of free podcasts. Additionally, streaming music on Spotify for a monthly fee is much more popular than making iTunes purchases, so if we apply that to BF, they don't offer such a service, and I don't know if they're able to create one. Those that make it past these barriers I think would gravitate toward the new series material more, so in that sense I understand the notion of maybe having the classic Doctors ape that sort of format. If that experiment fails to entice them, though, then you run the risk of having disappointed older classic Who fans. Not all of them, certainly, but if the fanbase is as small as we think it might be, then each one is proportionally more valuable. For myself, I do think there are some new fans to be gained. But I would hesitate to go chasing after mass appeal I don't think will ever be there. Making existing customers happy and expanding by good press and good word of mouth seems like a sensible plan to me. That doesn't mean don't change at all, but I think a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. I by no means claim to understand business, and I know it's not a binary choice. It's just the more I think about it the trickier it seems, whichever way you go. If you are certain you can catch the two in the bush, then letting the one you've got fly away seems like profit. But how certain are you? Is there a way to keep all three? As for story length, I agree with you that good stories are as long as they need to be. Many, many Short Trips and Companion Chronicles are incredible. But on average I find that two hours is about the sweet spot for Doctor Who. I often find New Series episodes feel rushed, while classic series 6+ episode serials can drag. I think Doctor Who more than most shows needs the extra time to establish the cast and setting because it's different every time. But that's just me.
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aztec
Chancellery Guard
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Post by aztec on Jun 14, 2020 20:23:47 GMT
At the risk of alienating some of the long term listeners Audio Drama is a niche format anyway, but a large part of Bf's appeal for me is the nostalgia factor getting to hear new stories reflecting the tone and style of the classic serials...I dunno something just seems a bit odd about say doing a new who style 50 minute romp with the tardis team from 1977, when they have New Who Doctors/character to tell those kind of stories with already...I'm sure there are good business/marketing/financial reasons from streamlining things and working to a regular format, but applying this structure to everything could make things feel a bit identikit i.m.o... I would argue a three disc format allows them to tell whatever kind of story they want to. 2 discs could be a traditional Who four-parter with a two-part story or a 50 minute story. Or it could be a 6 hour self-isolated story. Or a combination of several things. Oh yeah don't get me wrong I recognise that this allows alot of creative freedom...just a bit apprehensive at such a big change across the board...also not entirely sure if a move to boxsets with varying formats will be more or less accessible for new listeners?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2020 20:36:19 GMT
Surely 20 years of purchasing means that you have 20 years worth of content to listen to. Well, that is one way of looking at it... but nobody likes their custom being taken for granted either. Just because you've been a customer for two decades you might still like to be pandered to for a bit as well.
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Post by mark687 on Jun 20, 2020 10:24:03 GMT
This Weeks Live link www.bigfinish.com/podcasts/v/2020-06-21-steed-and-mrs-peelFair warning Comedy Accents galore this week! Avengers Steed and Mrs Peel "may" be out this week Featured Future Release War Master Heart of Darkness Bits and Bobs A very early pitch for The Avengers before it was seriously considered was Nick Briggs as Steed and Nicola Bryant as Emma Peel From the E-mails Their trying to keep announcements paced out and given to various sources for maximum interest (however its not without its challenges ad for example they gave the Exclusive announcement for Space 1999 Breakaway to SFX but Subscribers got their Magazines before Publication/ agreed announcement date so it lost some of it impact.) Space 1999 is in process of Lockdown recording but one Actor cant remote record but they'll find a way. When Live RAN could be the Key2Time Trilogy (almost as if they've got a new release coming out this year) Regards mark687
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Post by theillusiveman on Jun 20, 2020 11:07:44 GMT
From Listeners Emails when asked about Out of Time 2 and 3 Nick Briggs couldn't say any details except that the two classic Doctors involved in 2 and 3 are Peter Davison and Colin Baker
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Post by cwm on Jun 20, 2020 11:21:50 GMT
From Listeners Emails when asked about Out of Time 2 and 3 Nick Briggs couldn't say any details except that the two classic Doctors involved in 2 and 3 are Peter Davison and Colin Baker I think that's misleading - he just says Peter and Colin are involved. Nothing about them being the only two classic Doctors.
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Post by theillusiveman on Jun 20, 2020 11:30:06 GMT
From Listeners Emails when asked about Out of Time 2 and 3 Nick Briggs couldn't say any details except that the two classic Doctors involved in 2 and 3 are Peter Davison and Colin Baker I think that's misleading - he just says Peter and Colin are involved. Nothing about them being the only two classic Doctors. True good point but given that Out of Time 1 features just David and Tom together its possible that the next two releases might carry on the theme
hard to say at this point however Speculating but i feel that David Bradley might be one of the doctors to show up in one of them (his audios are listed in the new series section)
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