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Post by Bazoolium on Jul 14, 2017 23:12:02 GMT
With the release of a second triology of Mel reunited with the 7th Doctor and Ace I thought it might be a good time to talk about returning companions. Nyssa, Mel and Peri have all now had adventures after their TV finale. Personally I think Nyssa and Peri had excellent exists on TV, but not so much Mel. Whilst I like Nyssa's final fate, I don't think they really changed her character when they brought her back, beyond occasionally mentioning that she had kids.
Do people think these have been done well or do you think it diminishes the first exit.
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Post by relativetime on Jul 14, 2017 23:32:54 GMT
On the whole, I think they've all been done very well so far.
I haven't listened to all of the older-Nyssa stories, but what I have heard made for a pretty interesting ongoing story arc and I really liked Nyssa's final departure. Peri's departure in the show was great until the final episode of Season 23 messed it up. But, it also led to one of the greatest Companion Chronicles stories - Peri and the Piscon Paradox - and a truly fantastic Main Range story, The Widow's Assassin. I'm not sure where the arc will end up, but I hope we see some of what we learn in Peri and Piscon Paradox make its way into the arc before Peri departs once more.
Mel's original TV departure just sort of happened out of the blue from what I remember, so I think its nice to have the character come back for a chance at some proper closure. Plus, I really like the dynamic between the TARDIS team - it's a good midway point between the Season 24 and Season 25/26 portrayals of the Doctor so far.
And then there's Flip returning as well. While she's obviously an audio companion only, I really did feel like her original departure was a bit too soon and a little rushed. So, I'm very happy to have her back. I think it's perfectly in-character for her, too. She's younger than a lot of the Doctor's other companions and her brash actions often lead her to make decisions before she's really thought them out, such as leaving the Doctor to go get married. I'm looking forward to seeing whether her new adventures lead her to further brashness or to finally take things a little slower.
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Post by mrperson on Jul 15, 2017 0:03:49 GMT
I don't know that I need them to change the companion's character to justify a return. I do not think it diminishes their exit unless it's a reboot situation, where they are killed then unkilled. Or in Rose's case, taken from the Doctor and given a Doctor. And as to Nyssa, Well, they did kind of savage her emotionally, repeatedly.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2017 0:59:53 GMT
Can't speak to the recent Mel stories (yet to be heard)*, but I'm typically against it unless something clever is done with the companions to justify the break like with Charley, Jamie or Nyssa. The far former was given a radically different role aboard the TARDIS with another incarnation while the far latter was shown to have lived her life significantly in the interim post- Enlightenment. If the stories in question could be shunted to before their original departure without issue then there's no reason why they can't be set in their original run like other stories (e.g. Solitare). It's become something that really bugs me over the past couple of years and I think it was a precedent set by NuWho companions' multiple departures and returns. It started to get to the point where I stop being sad at their departures, started becoming relieved and then became bitterly disappointed when they returned. That's never a good look for your audience. I reckon if a return is going to be organised (beyond a one-off guest appearance), it should be handled with a lot of care and there should be a clear end goal in mind other than "give them a happier ending".
* - although if they're placed anywhere other than extremely early on you run into a very interesting bit of subtext. After a certain point, the Seventh Doctor knows that Mel: is dead and Mel knows that he willed her to leave the TARDIS the first time around.
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Post by glynnlondon on Jul 15, 2017 1:33:48 GMT
I personally love the old companions and big finish have done a fantastic job with characters like Mel and Adric in my opinion. As long as the storylines remain strong it's a good thing. Although those new to BF and of a certain age will gravitate towards their companions I suppose , I know I did.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2017 19:01:31 GMT
Do people think these have been done well or do you think it diminishes the first exit. I don't tend to over analyse things too much, but I have enjoyed the return of Mel to the main range with the Seventh Doctor and Ace. So no I don't think it diminishes Mel's TV exit - which wasn't great anyway - and has given us some really strong Seventh Doctor adventures with Mel and Ace together.
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Post by constonks on Jul 15, 2017 19:17:27 GMT
I think most of the time there's a law of diminishing returns on goodbyes. Case in point, Clara Oswald - each departure weaker than the last.
That being said, if they have something new to do with the character (ie. Older Nyssa), sure. I'm down. Just make sure that when you stop, you stop well.
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Post by Audio Watchdog on Jul 16, 2017 17:17:27 GMT
Do people think these have been done well or do you think it diminishes the first exit. I don't tend to over analyse things too much, but I have enjoyed the return of Mel to the main range with the Seventh Doctor and Ace. So no I don't think it diminishes Mel's TV exit - which wasn't great anyway - and has given us some really strong Seventh Doctor adventures with Mel and Ace together. If there is a good reason for the companion to come back and a good story comes out of it, then I see no reason not to. And no just as a inferior sequel does nothing to diminish the original film it follows, I don't feel like an inferior story bringing back a companion does anything to diminish their initial exit.
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Post by omega on Jul 17, 2017 10:31:34 GMT
I don't tend to over analyse things too much, but I have enjoyed the return of Mel to the main range with the Seventh Doctor and Ace. So no I don't think it diminishes Mel's TV exit - which wasn't great anyway - and has given us some really strong Seventh Doctor adventures with Mel and Ace together. If there is a good reason for the companion to come back and a good story comes out of it, then I see no reason not to. And no just as a inferior sequel does nothing to diminish the original film it follows, I don't feel like an inferior story bringing back a companion does anything to diminish their initial exit. I agree on the first point. If the writers can find a new angle on the Doctor/companion relationship that stems from the companion's time away, then I'm all for it. Unfortunately most of the time the companions are written as they were on TV, with little influence from their time after their departure. That's the main problem with Mel at the moment. She's her season 24 characterisation unless she brings up her time with Glitz when it explains how she can unlock a door or hack an advanced computer. Maybe if there was a story where one of Glitz's deals backfired and the TARDIS landed somewhere Mel would be called on to pay the debt Glitz owed.
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Post by stargazer on Sept 6, 2017 0:44:45 GMT
If there is a good reason for the companion to come back and a good story comes out of it, then I see no reason not to. And no just as a inferior sequel does nothing to diminish the original film it follows, I don't feel like an inferior story bringing back a companion does anything to diminish their initial exit. I agree on the first point. If the writers can find a new angle on the Doctor/companion relationship that stems from the companion's time away, then I'm all for it. Unfortunately most of the time the companions are written as they were on TV, with little influence from their time after their departure. That's the main problem with Mel at the moment. She's her season 24 characterisation unless she brings up her time with Glitz when it explains how she can unlock a door or hack an advanced computer. Maybe if there was a story where one of Glitz's deals backfired and the TARDIS landed somewhere Mel would be called on to pay the debt Glitz owed.
Sorry, but I can't agree with you on this at all. For me, she's clearly matured and hardened, aware of the universe, but still determined to find good in it and on a clear inevitable clash with Seven - a fantastic evolution of the character.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2017 5:22:33 GMT
I agree on the first point. If the writers can find a new angle on the Doctor/companion relationship that stems from the companion's time away, then I'm all for it. Unfortunately most of the time the companions are written as they were on TV, with little influence from their time after their departure. That's the main problem with Mel at the moment. She's her season 24 characterisation unless she brings up her time with Glitz when it explains how she can unlock a door or hack an advanced computer. Maybe if there was a story where one of Glitz's deals backfired and the TARDIS landed somewhere Mel would be called on to pay the debt Glitz owed.
Sorry, but I can't agree with you on this at all. For me, she's clearly matured and hardened, aware of the universe, but still determined to find good in it and on a clear inevitable clash with Seven - a fantastic evolution of the character.
This... Hmm... It's tricky because Season 24 can be one of two things for Mel. It can be her television persona during that period or it can be what Big Finish did with her character during that period. Even a little bit before then. Mel has a real streak of darkness in her character as the Doctor points out at one point. She's unambiguously responsible for Davros's dismemberment in The Juggernauts, for instance. Mel is lovely, but you don't want to cross her.
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Post by Ian McArdell on Sept 7, 2017 10:22:13 GMT
With Mel's recent return, I think they are doing a fair job of fleshing out her backstory - with suggestions of a romantic past and stories that play to her supposed computer skills (mentioned but unused on screen.) It was interesing to see the balance of power/experience shift between Mel and Ace in the first run of these stories (Life of Crime onwards)... that seems to have levelled out a bit now - although I'm not quite sure where they are set. I was assuming post-Survival - but then one of the recent stories mentioned Gabriel Chase, making me think they were more like S25?
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Post by mark687 on Sept 7, 2017 10:27:04 GMT
With Mel's recent return, I think they are doing a fair job of fleshing out her backstory - with suggestions of a romantic past and stories that play to her supposed computer skills (mentioned but unused on screen.) It was interesing to see the balance of power/experience shift between Mel and Ace in the first run of these stories (Life of Crime onwards)... that seems to have levelled out a bit now - although I'm not quite sure where they are set. I was assuming post-Survival - but then one of the recent stories mentioned Gabriel Chase, making me think they were more like S25? They're supposed to be after the Hex stories and after You are the Doctor.
Regards
mark687
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Post by Ian McArdell on Sept 7, 2017 11:22:45 GMT
Oh, that's right - You Are the Doctor teased Mel's return didn't it. I forget what point in the 7/Ace's tenure the Hex stories came though?
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Post by mark687 on Sept 7, 2017 11:46:42 GMT
Oh, that's right - You Are the Doctor teased Mel's return didn't it. I forget what point in the 7/Ace's tenure the Hex stories came though? I've always put after The Rapture and before Benny But The TV Movie Console Room [/spoiler] debuts in the Hex run so you could put Benny stories before Hex's Arc and Mel's return.
Regards
mark687
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Post by number13 on Sept 7, 2017 11:55:18 GMT
Personally I'm pleased to see any companion back for more stories if they are written well and the stories are good, without worrying too much about continuity or altered personalities. Within reason: if Adric walked out of the non-jettisoned Zero Room and said 'Earthshock' had all been a block-transfer thingy got up by him at the Master's bidding, I might draw the line.
In the TV era, the two 'never ever return' companions for me would have been Adric and Mel. But thanks to BF, I loved the Fifth Doctor Box Set and enjoyed the first Adric 'trilogy' and the second sounds fairly fantastic from the synopses.
And thanks goodness that Mel returned as she should always have been. I'm not that bothered about how her time with Glitz may or may not have changed her; what matters to me is that Mel the intelligent woman has been allowed to stop screaming and start using her considerable intelligence, exceptional memory and top computer skills as she was never allowed to do on TV, while keeping the sparky humour that was shown off so well recently in 'The High Price of Parking'.
And if continuity is a problem (as would be any serious post-'Earthshock' return of Adric), stories can always be set within the TV timelines rather than after them.
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Post by sherlock on Sept 7, 2017 18:52:49 GMT
Oh, that's right - You Are the Doctor teased Mel's return didn't it. I forget what point in the 7/Ace's tenure the Hex stories came though? I've always put after The Rapture and before Benny But The TV Movie Console Room [/spoiler] debuts in the Hex run so you could put Benny stories before Hex's Arc and Mel's return.
Regards
mark687
[/quote] {Spoiler} Given the TV Movie room is also introduced in Excelis Decays and Lungbarrow, and setup in Ground Zero. I wouldn't put too much weight in its presence for timeline placement.
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