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Post by dalekbuster523finish on Jul 29, 2017 22:24:03 GMT
I just watched the John Williams BBC Proms on iPlayer and I was surprised by how utterly underwhelming it was.
I mean, yeah you got the E.T.,Jaws, Superman, Indiana Jones, Harry Potter and Star Wars themes but they missed out three of the other iconic film scores he composed: Jurassic Park, Home Alone and Close Encounters Of The Third Kind.
It felt like there was way too much filler (music from obscure films like Goodbye Mr Chips, recent movies like BFG and War Horse) and they could have cut down the ridiculous number of Star Wars tunes to make way for the three examples they missed out. Random choices like Goodbye Mr Chips are fine for lecturers or people like me who are film students (although I hadn't seen the obscure films so I didn't recognise the music, I imagine other film students may have) but this concert should have been more about the mainstream blockbuster pieces.
What a wasted opportunity.
Anyone else on here agree?
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Post by Tony Jones on Jul 30, 2017 9:19:57 GMT
I didn't finish it - I don't mind a bit of Star Wars, just thought it missed the mark as an attention grabber
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Post by Sherwood Sound on Jul 30, 2017 9:32:47 GMT
I watched it on iPlayer about 20 minutes behind the broadcast and ended up skipping the less known music and caught up to the live feed!
Why have a full orchestra for the rare chance to hear some great music played live and miss some well-known themes? An odd one!
I went to the Royal Albert Hall premiere of a live orchestra playing Danny Elfman's music for Tim Burton's films. Elfman sang, Burton and family were present and all the major themes were played. Now that was a night that should have been recorded for broadcast!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2017 10:19:39 GMT
There were LOADS of his most famous themes in the show. Isn't part of the fun of live music, especially with someone who has such a large back catalogue, the chance to hear some lesser gems amongst all the big hitters? It was a celebration of his music, not how successful the films the music was attached to were. Maybe John has a soft spot for Mr Chips? I know John Barry, for all his Bond fame, thought his Raise The Titanic soundtrack was his best piece yet by the logicof this thread because it's not as famous, it should be replaced by On Her Majesty's Secret Service in any Barry appreciation.
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Post by jasonward on Jul 30, 2017 11:43:46 GMT
There were LOADS of his most famous themes in the show. Isn't part of the fun of live music, especially with someone who has such a large back catalogue, the chance to hear some lesser gems amongst all the big hitters? It was a celebration of his music, not how successful the films the music was attached to were. Maybe John has a soft spot for Mr Chips? I know John Barry, for all his Bond fame, thought his Raise The Titanic soundtrack was his best piece yet by the logicof this thread because it's not as famous, it should be replaced by On Her Majesty's Secret Service in any Barry appreciation. Depends on who the audience is, if your targetting people that appreciate music as part of their culture, for the memories and the fun, then yes, by and large ignore the lessor known pieces. If your target audience is those that appreciate the skills and artistry of the composers and musicians, people that understand musical jokes, then you probably want to be finding a whole bunch of new stuff they have not heard before. I would suggest this prom was aimed at the former group far more than the later.
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Post by dalekbuster523finish on Jul 30, 2017 11:50:31 GMT
There were LOADS of his most famous themes in the show. Isn't part of the fun of live music, especially with someone who has such a large back catalogue, the chance to hear some lesser gems amongst all the big hitters? It was a celebration of his music, not how successful the films the music was attached to were. Maybe John has a soft spot for Mr Chips? I know John Barry, for all his Bond fame, thought his Raise The Titanic soundtrack was his best piece yet by the logicof this thread because it's not as famous, it should be replaced by On Her Majesty's Secret Service in any Barry appreciation. Problem is that in three instances there was more than one piece of music from the same film (Star Wars: A New Hope, Star Wars: The Force Awakens, Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone) when it would have been better to feature the title music from the three iconic films that John Williams scored which they missed out (Jurassic Park, Home Alone, Close Encounters). Including new music like BFG and War Horse over the more iconic stuff also doesn't sit well with me personally. Maybe in ten years people will remember that stuft but currently there are more memorable themes by John Williams.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2017 12:22:57 GMT
There were LOADS of his most famous themes in the show. Isn't part of the fun of live music, especially with someone who has such a large back catalogue, the chance to hear some lesser gems amongst all the big hitters? It was a celebration of his music, not how successful the films the music was attached to were. Maybe John has a soft spot for Mr Chips? I know John Barry, for all his Bond fame, thought his Raise The Titanic soundtrack was his best piece yet by the logicof this thread because it's not as famous, it should be replaced by On Her Majesty's Secret Service in any Barry appreciation. Depends on who the audience is, if your targetting people that appreciate music as part of their culture, for the memories and the fun, then yes, by and large ignore the lessor known pieces. If your target audience is those that appreciate the skills and artistry of the composers and musicians, people that understand musical jokes, then you probably want to be finding a whole bunch of new stuff they have not heard before. I would suggest this prom was aimed at the former group far more than the later. But there was hardly a lot of obscure work in this show. The odd lesser known piece...is that an issue? People may as well just listen to a Best Of CD if they only want the big hitters. I don't really get it - there's music on BBC4 all the time, I don't think people complain if there's the odd b-side on one of the Bowie concerts they've shown do they? There were LOADS of famous tunes on the broadcast. Absolutely loads. Something for everybody.
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Post by dalekbuster523finish on Jul 30, 2017 12:29:23 GMT
Depends on who the audience is, if your targetting people that appreciate music as part of their culture, for the memories and the fun, then yes, by and large ignore the lessor known pieces. If your target audience is those that appreciate the skills and artistry of the composers and musicians, people that understand musical jokes, then you probably want to be finding a whole bunch of new stuff they have not heard before. I would suggest this prom was aimed at the former group far more than the later. But there was hardly a lot of obscure work in this show. The odd lesser known piece...is that an issue? People may as well just listen to a Best Of CD if they only want the big hitters. I don't really get it - there's music on BBC4 all the time, I don't think people complain if there's the odd b-side on one of the Bowie concerts they've shown do they? There were LOADS of famous tunes on the broadcast. Absolutely loads. Something for everybody. But there wasn't Jurassic Park, Home Alone or Close Encounters.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2017 12:44:40 GMT
But there was hardly a lot of obscure work in this show. The odd lesser known piece...is that an issue? People may as well just listen to a Best Of CD if they only want the big hitters. I don't really get it - there's music on BBC4 all the time, I don't think people complain if there's the odd b-side on one of the Bowie concerts they've shown do they? There were LOADS of famous tunes on the broadcast. Absolutely loads. Something for everybody. But there wasn't Jurassic Park, Home Alone or Close Encounters. So? Go see Bruce Springsteen and he won't have time to play all his hits. You won't get some of his biggest songs even though you will get a few obscurities along the way. This is pretty much how live music works. It wasn't billed as "John William's Most Famous And Memorable Works". Here's the description: "Celebrate the 85th birthday of one of the world’s favourite film composers in an evening of big emotions and even bigger melodies". I'd say it fulfilled the promise! There's no way to quantify it but I bet there were very, very few people leaving the show saying "Well, I would have liked it....but they didn't play the Home Alone theme so it was a letdown". Any artist with such a vast back catalogue can't have all their work showcased in under two hours. Keith Lockhart who conducted is a friend and collaborator of John's....I think it's just possible he knew how to pay tribute to the man AND please an audience better than we could. He would know not just what pieces are iconic - which, sure, we all know - but the lesser pieces that maybe mean something to JW himself. It was a tribute t him after all. I can't grudge a few personal faves making the setlist.
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Post by dalekbuster523finish on Jul 30, 2017 12:48:27 GMT
But there wasn't Jurassic Park, Home Alone or Close Encounters. So? . So they missed out three of his most iconic hits! They could easily have cut out the ridiculous number of Star Wars music to make way for the iconic tunes they missed out. All you need for Star Wars is the iconic title music. I like Harry Potter but the second piece of music from Philosopher's Stone wasn't needed either. If they'd cut out some of the padding Jurassic Park, Close Encounters and Home Alone would have fitted in and they may have even had room for Hook too.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2017 12:53:45 GMT
So they missed out three of his most iconic hits! They could easily have cut out the ridiculous number of Star Wars music to make way for the iconic tunes they missed out. All you need for Star Wars is the iconic title music. I like Harry Potter but the second piece of music from Philosopher's Stone wasn't needed either. If they'd cut out some of the padding Jurassic Park, Close Encounters and Home Alone would have fitted in and they may have even had room for Hook too. See if they'd only played the Star Wars theme, there'd only be "Why no Imperial March theme?" "Where was Duel Of The Fates?" "Why didn't they play Binary Sunset?" bitches and moans. Almost like they can't win.....
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Post by dalekbuster523finish on Jul 30, 2017 12:57:59 GMT
So they missed out three of his most iconic hits! They could easily have cut out the ridiculous number of Star Wars music to make way for the iconic tunes they missed out. All you need for Star Wars is the iconic title music. I like Harry Potter but the second piece of music from Philosopher's Stone wasn't needed either. If they'd cut out some of the padding Jurassic Park, Close Encounters and Home Alone would have fitted in and they may have even had room for Hook too. See if they'd only played the Star Wars theme, there'd only be "Why no Imperial March theme?" "Where was Duel Of The Fates?" "Why didn't they play Binary Sunset?" bitches and moans. Almost like they can't win..... There would have been no basis for those complaints though because it wasn't a Star Wars concert.
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Post by doomlord on Jul 30, 2017 15:11:08 GMT
It was a celebration of his 85th birthday and his film work that stretches back 50 years, one of those 50 year pieces was from the well-known 1967 musical, Goodbye, Mr Chips at the very beginning of his career and what better way to start, at the beginning. Just because you've never heard of the film, which doesn't surprise me in the slightest, as you're hardly the best person to champion most films and television programmes due to your very narrow preferences, plenty of people have and just as many people would have appreciated going back to his humble beginnings and a film that more than likely means a lot more to him, as we've all got to start somewhere. Don't forget, John has to approve this concert, he has the pick and last say of what goes in and if that's the way he chooses to celebrate his birthday and 50 years of music, then you can't really argue. Yes, it's not one his most famous, recognisable pieces but I and many appreciated it just because we've all got to start from somewhere and this was explained or touched upon in the commentary if you chose to listen properly instead of foaming at the mouth in anticipation and focusing too much for those first few bars of Jurassic Park to play in. There were always going to be some pieces that would have not made the celebration as his work spanning 50 years is lengthy. I watched it on broadcast and was hoping for something from the unforgettable Schindler's List, one he won an Oscar for and something considerably more powerful than a 'Tom & Jerry' homage that was Home Alone but unfortunately it wasn't included yet I felt fulfilled due to the other plethora of works included on the night. As for the Star Wars numbers, I'm not sure why you've chosen to put the word 'ridiculous', twice when describing them when they're anything but ridiculous, yet don't for any of the ones you wanted? Why is that? Eight films and soon to be a ninth, with each film having at least three iconic musical themes or motifs, that's a huge chunk out of 50 years. Play The Imperial March, Binary Sunset, Cantina Band, Yoda's Theme, Leia's Theme, The Asteroid Field, Ewok Celebration, Duel of the Fates, Rey's Theme, etc. to anyone and they'll know them far more than the actual main theme to Home Alone, making that HA piece the most obscure to them, so what's obscure to you doesn't necessarily mean it's obscure to everyone. Have you actually watched Mr Chips, War Horse or The BFG? I thoroughly recommend each one, then you'd know and appreciate each note within each piece as the films are terrific, especially The War Horse, if you can personally get past the 'boring' history of men laying down their lives for our freedom in 1917.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2017 19:26:10 GMT
It was a celebration of his 85th birthday and his film work that stretches back 50 years, one of those 50 year pieces was from the well-known 1967 musical, Goodbye, Mr Chips at the very beginning of his career and what better way to start, at the beginning. Just because you've never heard of the film, which doesn't surprise me in the slightest, as you're hardly the best person to champion most films and television programmes due to your very narrow preferences, plenty of people have and just as many people would have appreciated going back to his humble beginnings and a film that more than likely means a lot more to him, as we've all got to start somewhere. Don't forget, John has to approve this concert, he has the pick and last say of what goes in and if that's the way he chooses to celebrate his birthday and 50 years of music, then you can't really argue. Yes, it's not one his most famous, recognisable pieces but I and many appreciated it just because we've all got to start from somewhere and this was explained or touched upon in the commentary if you chose to listen properly instead of foaming at the mouth in anticipation and focusing too much for those first few bars of Jurassic Park to play in. There were always going to be some pieces that would have not made the celebration as his work spanning 50 years is lengthy. I watched it on broadcast and was hoping for something from the unforgettable Schindler's List, one he won an Oscar for and something considerably more powerful than a 'Tom & Jerry' homage that was Home Alone but unfortunately it wasn't included yet I felt fulfilled due to the other plethora of works included on the night. As for the Star Wars numbers, I'm not sure why you've chosen to put the word 'ridiculous', twice when describing them when they're anything but ridiculous, yet don't for any of the ones you wanted? Why is that? Eight films and soon to be a ninth, with each film having at least three iconic musical themes or motifs, that's a huge chunk out of 50 years. Play The Imperial March, Binary Sunset, Cantina Band, Yoda's Theme, Leia's Theme, The Asteroid Field, Ewok Celebration, Duel of the Fates, Rey's Theme, etc. to anyone and they'll know them far more than the actual main theme to Home Alone, making that HA piece the most obscure to them, so what's obscure to you doesn't necessarily mean it's obscure to everyone. Have you actually watched Mr Chips, War Horse or The BFG? I thoroughly recommend each one, then you'd know and appreciate each note within each piece as the films are terrific, especially The War Horse, if you can personally get past the 'boring' history of men laying down their lives for our freedom in 1917. Well said. This was a career spanning Proms concert. As such I really enjoyed it. Like any live music event you cannot please all the fans.
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Post by Audio Watchdog on Nov 28, 2017 22:58:07 GMT
It was a celebration of his 85th birthday and his film work that stretches back 50 years, one of those 50 year pieces was from the well-known 1967 musical, Goodbye, Mr Chips at the very beginning of his career and what better way to start, at the beginning. Just because you've never heard of the film, which doesn't surprise me in the slightest, as you're hardly the best person to champion most films and television programmes due to your very narrow preferences, plenty of people have and just as many people would have appreciated going back to his humble beginnings and a film that more than likely means a lot more to him, as we've all got to start somewhere. Don't forget, John has to approve this concert, he has the pick and last say of what goes in and if that's the way he chooses to celebrate his birthday and 50 years of music, then you can't really argue. Yes, it's not one his most famous, recognisable pieces but I and many appreciated it just because we've all got to start from somewhere and this was explained or touched upon in the commentary if you chose to listen properly instead of foaming at the mouth in anticipation and focusing too much for those first few bars of Jurassic Park to play in. There were always going to be some pieces that would have not made the celebration as his work spanning 50 years is lengthy. I watched it on broadcast and was hoping for something from the unforgettable Schindler's List, one he won an Oscar for and something considerably more powerful than a 'Tom & Jerry' homage that was Home Alone but unfortunately it wasn't included yet I felt fulfilled due to the other plethora of works included on the night. As for the Star Wars numbers, I'm not sure why you've chosen to put the word 'ridiculous', twice when describing them when they're anything but ridiculous, yet don't for any of the ones you wanted? Why is that? Eight films and soon to be a ninth, with each film having at least three iconic musical themes or motifs, that's a huge chunk out of 50 years. Play The Imperial March, Binary Sunset, Cantina Band, Yoda's Theme, Leia's Theme, The Asteroid Field, Ewok Celebration, Duel of the Fates, Rey's Theme, etc. to anyone and they'll know them far more than the actual main theme to Home Alone, making that HA piece the most obscure to them, so what's obscure to you doesn't necessarily mean it's obscure to everyone. Have you actually watched Mr Chips, War Horse or The BFG? I thoroughly recommend each one, then you'd know and appreciate each note within each piece as the films are terrific, especially The War Horse, if you can personally get past the 'boring' history of men laying down their lives for our freedom in 1917. Pretty much this and especially the highlighted part.
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Post by agentten on Nov 29, 2017 4:25:19 GMT
A while back I saw Paul McCartney live. He did a two and a half hour show. It would have been impossible for him to satisfy every call for him to perform his most popular songs, there's just too many of them. McCartney picked a load of great songs and simply didn't happen to perform others. He wasn't snubbing his own music by choosing not to play certain landmark songs or big hits. It's just the reality that there is only so much time in a show by an artist that has had an astonishingly long and successful career. I was actually delighted that he played some deeper cuts from his solo albums. For example, for his encore he did "Put it There" from Flowers In The Dirt, a great song of the sort that McCartney is masterful with, but not a big chart topping hit. That doesn't mean it shouldn't be performed at a show. Quite the opposite, in fact. It would be VERY easy for McCartney to have played to the audience and done a melody of big hits for his encore (and I wouldn't have complained if he did), but he chose a more intimate set of songs to close with. Likewise when I saw Bowie many years ago when he toured with Nine Inch Nails, he pulled some deeper cuts from his work that I was totally surprised that he played and I loved every second of it. A concert can be an exercise in checking off boxes, or it can be a creative event that helps us get to know the artist in a new way. I prefer the latter.
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Post by Timelord007 on Nov 29, 2017 8:40:21 GMT
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