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Post by sherlock on Aug 9, 2017 21:50:39 GMT
Isn't the main issue being the first EDA, The Eight Doctors, picks up directly from the TV Movie? Based on what I know of the EDAs (I haven't read any, I live in fear of inflated eBay prices) I place the order as: Movie The Eight Doctors The Dying Days Radio Times Comics DWM Comics Charley Big Finish Vampire Science Rest of the EDAs Lucie Big Finish Dark Eyes Doom Coalition Titan Comics Time War stories (I do have a separate theory which places most of the EDAs in an alternate Timeline, but it's a bit convoluted) By this theory, Charley has the TV Movie console room, whereas Lucie is using whatever look the room has after the devastation in The Gallifrey Chronicles (it's possible the TARDIS simply repaired the EDA room and carried on using it). As per the secondary control room, well spoilers below for a very recent Big Finish release: In Day of the Vashta Nerada, the secondary control room is used by the eighth Doctor. I don't remember any description of it, so it might not necessarily be the same design as Masque. That's about the long and short of it. The Eight Doctors has its own problems in how it tries to "Trial and Tribble-ations" its way through televised continuity (something which The Name of the Doctor did fractionally better), I'm a big proponent of letting it exist in that vague half-life of Timelash and stories like it. The Radio Times comics can be placed wherever you'd like prior to the EDAs really, I only found out they existed when they were mentioned in Placebo Effect. They also suffered from vanishing without a departure story like Raine, so their oubliette is quite extensive. Everything else looks to be pretty much on target. I put everything from Where Nobody Knows Your Name to The Flood after The Girl Who Never Was based on the more grounded Eighth Doctor (who cracks a man's neck with an open palm to the chin) and his (otherwise inexplicable) depression in that first comic story. That and the fact that Destrii doesn't get a departure story, so when she leaves and Sam returns it feels less like we've lost a chunk of Eight's life. The gap after The Gallifrey Chronicles could be smoothed out by The Infinity Doctors once upon a time in which the Doctor is on the High Council and has cut his hair short (giving his self-conscious deflection about his hair not being a wig in Blood a new context), but nowadays in light of things like Dark Eyes... It's a touch vaguer. I did some digging just now and The Dying Days mentions the TVM parlour as being established in a secondary console room, one of many throughout the ship. Maybe referring to it as the room is a mistake... After all, there should theoretically be a tertiary console room still floating about the TARDIS's substructure. I wonder when we'll eventually get to the quaternary, quinary, senary, septenary, octonary, nonary and denary control rooms? Why has no one ever made that joke before...? Tertiary control room?! How many control rooms does a TARDIS need?! Making the TV Movie design the secondary room actually fits quite well. There's nothing said explicitly that it is THE control room, and in fact that could explain how it's used by the seventh Doctor whilst with Hex (well based on the sound effects). So to make a new theory: whilst with Ace and Hex the Doctor switched to the secondary room, for whatever reason, which had presumably evolved to sound like the Movie console (maybe he modified the console). Then before the NAs he went back to the primary control room again but after the events of Lungbarrow warped the TARDIS he took to using the secondary room full time but chose to renovate it a bit (fitting in with Excelis Decays saying he built it) making it larger, becoming the TV Movie design. Phew. From the title and what I vaguely know of it, could The Infinity Doctors simply be a parallel universe? After all an infinite number of universes should mean an infinite number of Doctors...
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2017 22:34:27 GMT
Tertiary control room?! How many control rooms does a TARDIS need?! Making the TV Movie design the secondary room actually fits quite well. There's nothing said explicitly that it is THE control room, and in fact that could explain how it's used by the seventh Doctor whilst with Hex (well based on the sound effects). So to make a new theory: whilst with Ace and Hex the Doctor switched to the secondary room, for whatever reason, which had presumably evolved to sound like the Movie console (maybe he modified the console). Then before the NAs he went back to the primary control room again but after the events of Lungbarrow warped the TARDIS he took to using the secondary room full time but chose to renovate it a bit (fitting in with Excelis Decays saying he built it) making it larger, becoming the TV Movie design. Phew. From the title and what I vaguely know of it, could The Infinity Doctors simply be a parallel universe? After all an infinite number of universes should mean an infinite number of Doctors... It's quite pretty actually, Mark Gatiss does an excellent job making it sound otherworldly. It turns up in Nightshade and might be one of my favourites. The theory certainly has legs. The Seventh Doctor might have the longest life out of all his incarnations, barring his immediate successor. That's certainly one interpretation. It's a story similar to say... The Cabinet of Light or The Dalek Factor. It deliberately obfuscates its own timestream, but goes out of its way to dismiss the concept of it being in a parallel universe. There's something else going on. The incarnation here could very well be a young First Doctor, a future Doctor who has retired to Gallifrey (maybe the same one in The Massacre novelisation?) or a completely alternate portrayal living in a universe where his past history was retroactively altered like what happened in Blood Heat. When an examination is made of other timelines, they're said explicitly to be palimpsest, not parallel. Their/our universe is riddled with paradoxes, which could quite possibly be the result of the Faction or the Doctor's own cavalier adventures. Oof, well... TARDISes have the capacity for telepathic speech, not all Time Lords are Gallifreyans, the Magistrate is implied to be a beneficent Master (which squares with The Adventuress of Henrietta Street), Seeing I is mentioned, Attack of the Cybermen gets a look-in as the basis for a hypothetical scenario, the Sontarans and the Rutans make peace after centuries of war, the Doctor meets Patience who has distinctly experienced the events of Cold Fusion, he's said to be less than two thousand years old and has travelled widely. Throw in the physical description and I'm very inclined to believe it's the Eighth Doctor towards the end of his life or at the very least an incarnation "played" by Paul McGann. Gabriel and Tanith in Falls the Shadow emerged from the anguish of every timeline negated by the presence of time travellers, so it's possible that the Doctor's restoration of Gallifrey had other consequences beyond the purely spatial. If the fabric of spacetime knitted itself back together again in lieu of the Time Lords, then it might have been necessary to rip it back open again to place everything back as it once was. Not a reset, but a suture and its still fresh enough you can see the scarring.
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Post by sherlock on Aug 9, 2017 23:42:00 GMT
Tertiary control room?! How many control rooms does a TARDIS need?! Making the TV Movie design the secondary room actually fits quite well. There's nothing said explicitly that it is THE control room, and in fact that could explain how it's used by the seventh Doctor whilst with Hex (well based on the sound effects). So to make a new theory: whilst with Ace and Hex the Doctor switched to the secondary room, for whatever reason, which had presumably evolved to sound like the Movie console (maybe he modified the console). Then before the NAs he went back to the primary control room again but after the events of Lungbarrow warped the TARDIS he took to using the secondary room full time but chose to renovate it a bit (fitting in with Excelis Decays saying he built it) making it larger, becoming the TV Movie design. Phew. From the title and what I vaguely know of it, could The Infinity Doctors simply be a parallel universe? After all an infinite number of universes should mean an infinite number of Doctors... It's quite pretty actually, Mark Gatiss does an excellent job making it sound otherworldly. It turns up in Nightshade and might be one of my favourites. The theory certainly has legs. The Seventh Doctor might have the longest life out of all his incarnations, barring his immediate successor. That's certainly one interpretation. It's a story similar to say... The Cabinet of Light or The Dalek Factor. It deliberately obfuscates its own timestream, but goes out of its way to dismiss the concept of it being in a parallel universe. There's something else going on. The incarnation here could very well be a young First Doctor, a future Doctor who has retired to Gallifrey (maybe the same one in The Massacre novelisation?) or a completely alternate portrayal living in a universe where his past history was retroactively altered like what happened in Blood Heat. When an examination is made of other timelines, they're said explicitly to be palimpsest, not parallel. Their/our universe is riddled with paradoxes, which could quite possibly be the result of the Faction or the Doctor's own cavalier adventures. Oof, well... TARDISes have the capacity for telepathic speech, not all Time Lords are Gallifreyans, the Magistrate is implied to be a beneficent Master (which squares with The Adventuress of Henrietta Street), Seeing I is mentioned, Attack of the Cybermen gets a look-in as the basis for a hypothetical scenario, the Sontarans and the Rutans make peace after centuries of war, the Doctor meets Patience who has distinctly experienced the events of Cold Fusion, he's said to be less than two thousand years old and has travelled widely. Throw in the physical description and I'm very inclined to believe it's the Eighth Doctor towards the end of his life or at the very least an incarnation "played" by Paul McGann. Gabriel and Tanith in Falls the Shadow emerged from the anguish of every timeline negated by the presence of time travellers, so it's possible that the Doctor's restoration of Gallifrey had other consequences beyond the purely spatial. If the fabric of spacetime knitted itself back together again in lieu of the Time Lords, then it might have been necessary to rip it back open again to place everything back as it once was. Not a reset, but a suture and its still fresh enough you can see the scarring. Perhaps The Infinity Doctors is simply a divergent timeline then, preserved in the Axis perhaps? The Cabinet of Light could simply be a possible future for the Doctor, akin to The Curator. The Dalek Factor I've seen a compelling argument (I'll try to find the link) that it actually features a young war Doctor. Tertiary control room has me intrigued, shame it didn't turn up in Big Finish's adaptation of Nightshade.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2017 0:40:20 GMT
It's quite pretty actually, Mark Gatiss does an excellent job making it sound otherworldly. It turns up in Nightshade and might be one of my favourites. The theory certainly has legs. The Seventh Doctor might have the longest life out of all his incarnations, barring his immediate successor. That's certainly one interpretation. It's a story similar to say... The Cabinet of Light or The Dalek Factor. It deliberately obfuscates its own timestream, but goes out of its way to dismiss the concept of it being in a parallel universe. There's something else going on. The incarnation here could very well be a young First Doctor, a future Doctor who has retired to Gallifrey (maybe the same one in The Massacre novelisation?) or a completely alternate portrayal living in a universe where his past history was retroactively altered like what happened in Blood Heat. When an examination is made of other timelines, they're said explicitly to be palimpsest, not parallel. Their/our universe is riddled with paradoxes, which could quite possibly be the result of the Faction or the Doctor's own cavalier adventures. Oof, well... TARDISes have the capacity for telepathic speech, not all Time Lords are Gallifreyans, the Magistrate is implied to be a beneficent Master (which squares with The Adventuress of Henrietta Street), Seeing I is mentioned, Attack of the Cybermen gets a look-in as the basis for a hypothetical scenario, the Sontarans and the Rutans make peace after centuries of war, the Doctor meets Patience who has distinctly experienced the events of Cold Fusion, he's said to be less than two thousand years old and has travelled widely. Throw in the physical description and I'm very inclined to believe it's the Eighth Doctor towards the end of his life or at the very least an incarnation "played" by Paul McGann. Gabriel and Tanith in Falls the Shadow emerged from the anguish of every timeline negated by the presence of time travellers, so it's possible that the Doctor's restoration of Gallifrey had other consequences beyond the purely spatial. If the fabric of spacetime knitted itself back together again in lieu of the Time Lords, then it might have been necessary to rip it back open again to place everything back as it once was. Not a reset, but a suture and its still fresh enough you can see the scarring. Perhaps The Infinity Doctors is simply a divergent timeline then, preserved in the Axis perhaps? The Cabinet of Light could simply be a possible future for the Doctor, akin to The Curator. The Dalek Factor I've seen a compelling argument (I'll try to find the link) that it actually features a young war Doctor. Tertiary control room has me intrigued, shame it didn't turn up in Big Finish's adaptation of Nightshade. Ooh, possibly, but the book tries to fight that particular definition as well. It's "canonical" in the sense that the television series is and the Unbound stories aren't, but Omega is deliberately altering the past to suit his own affairs, so it's very difficult to say. The Doctor experiences multiple pasts, including those he knows never happened to him. Having read The Cabinet of Light, I was kind of amazed by how much the new incarnation who employs Honore Lechasseur sounds like the REG Doctor (he's pale, has a high forehead, smokes and has a marvellous singing voice). It predates Scream of the Shalka only by a matter of months. The Dalek Factor is a little trickier, there's only reference to a companion who met a very unpleasant end before the book starts and the book ends with the Doctor reconditioned and forced back to the start. Again, again and again, until the Daleks get it right. It could very well be something to do with that incarnation, the Eighth Doctor or it could be his very last story and he never escapes the Daleks. Didn't it really? Sourced from the eBook version that once existed on the BBC website, the passage describing the room in question was: It's a beautifully sad book really. Nightshade is all about nostalgia, regret and a deliberate reaction against the garishness of the eighties. It starts with a depiction of the First Doctor's departure from Gallifrey (most notably, alone) and the First Doctor's decision to retire and ends with him betraying Ace and abducting her for the greater good. Very raw and well worth the read, even with the audio adaptation.
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Post by whiskeybrewer on Aug 11, 2017 11:38:24 GMT
Is the EDA look the one 8 has in the Charley adventures or is it a different look? lol Good question. It really depends on where you stick Big Finish in regard to the EDAs. Me personally, I've got this informal Reaffirmation trilogy at the beginning of Eight's life that consists of The Dying Days, Shada and (most importantly) Endgame from the comics. In his DWM travels with Izzy, it's mentioned that it's only been a couple months since San Francisco (and those early stories were written by Alan Barnes from 1996 onwards), not enough time to have been caught up in a future War he wasn't supposed to know about. Couple that with Charley's dissatisfaction at how the room "looks like something out of Jules Verne," and I like to think that Storm Warning is just after Oblivion where he's still using the Cathedral console room. Although -- and my memory might be shoddy on this one -- we never do see a "secondary" (such a loaded statement considering that the "secondary" introduced in Mandragora was supposed to be the original) console room during Eight's time. The rest of the TARDIS has a crumbling Gothic quality to it like the inside of a stormswept castle, but there might very well be another pewter grey console room floating around the place. Just need a reason to find it. Lol damn you continuity lol
Well I see the actual EDA books as a different Timeline/Universe. Bit like the BFNA's are part of the Prime TV Universe while the original VNA's are a separate universe. So some things always happen to the Doctor in each universe he exists in, its just they happen in different ways.
So a version of the EDA's did maybe happen to 8, but not the way we've read. So after certain events his main console room could go back and forth?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2017 23:27:54 GMT
Good question. It really depends on where you stick Big Finish in regard to the EDAs. Me personally, I've got this informal Reaffirmation trilogy at the beginning of Eight's life that consists of The Dying Days, Shada and (most importantly) Endgame from the comics. In his DWM travels with Izzy, it's mentioned that it's only been a couple months since San Francisco (and those early stories were written by Alan Barnes from 1996 onwards), not enough time to have been caught up in a future War he wasn't supposed to know about. Couple that with Charley's dissatisfaction at how the room "looks like something out of Jules Verne," and I like to think that Storm Warning is just after Oblivion where he's still using the Cathedral console room. Although -- and my memory might be shoddy on this one -- we never do see a "secondary" (such a loaded statement considering that the "secondary" introduced in Mandragora was supposed to be the original) console room during Eight's time. The rest of the TARDIS has a crumbling Gothic quality to it like the inside of a stormswept castle, but there might very well be another pewter grey console room floating around the place. Just need a reason to find it. Lol damn you continuity lol
Well I see the actual EDA books as a different Timeline/Universe. Bit like the BFNA's are part of the Prime TV Universe while the original VNA's are a separate universe. So some things always happen to the Doctor in each universe he exists in, its just they happen in different ways.
So a version of the EDA's did maybe happen to 8, but not the way we've read. So after certain events his main console room could go back and forth?
It's certainly not out-of-character for the Eighth Doctor. I'd have a harder time believing with someone like the Fifth, who probably enjoys the stability of one room, but his eighth self might do it just for the sake of variety.
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Post by whiskeybrewer on Aug 12, 2017 14:20:45 GMT
Lol damn you continuity lol
Well I see the actual EDA books as a different Timeline/Universe. Bit like the BFNA's are part of the Prime TV Universe while the original VNA's are a separate universe. So some things always happen to the Doctor in each universe he exists in, its just they happen in different ways.
So a version of the EDA's did maybe happen to 8, but not the way we've read. So after certain events his main console room could go back and forth?
It's certainly not out-of-character for the Eighth Doctor. I'd have a harder time believing with someone like the Fifth, who probably enjoys the stability of one room, but his eighth self might do it just for the sake of variety. He does like the joy of new discovery
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Post by Jeedai on Aug 12, 2017 19:24:07 GMT
As per the secondary control room, well spoilers below for a very recent Big Finish release: In Day of the Vashta Nerada, the secondary control room is used by the eighth Doctor. I don't remember any description of it, so it might not necessarily be the same design as Masque. Eight draws attention to the wood paneling. Something to the effect that the grain and knots are weak points the Vashta Nerada could exploit to get inside.
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Post by sherlock on Aug 12, 2017 19:51:32 GMT
As per the secondary control room, well spoilers below for a very recent Big Finish release: In Day of the Vashta Nerada, the secondary control room is used by the eighth Doctor. I don't remember any description of it, so it might not necessarily be the same design as Masque. Eight draws attention to the wood paneling. Something to the effect that the grain and knots are weak points the Vashta Nerada could exploit to get inside. Ah forgot about that. Maybe he re-created the old secondary control room then? The TARDIS does say she keeps an archive of old control rooms in The Doctor's Wife.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2017 0:42:00 GMT
Eight draws attention to the wood paneling. Something to the effect that the grain and knots are weak points the Vashta Nerada could exploit to get inside. Ah forgot about that. Maybe he re-created the old secondary control room then? The TARDIS does say she keeps an archive of old control rooms in The Doctor's Wife. It's certainly possible, although it may not be the same console anymore in that control room.
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Post by omega on Aug 13, 2017 9:35:23 GMT
Wasn't there something at the end of Lungbarrow talking about how 7's TARDIS had been re-written? Yep, its interior dimensions were collapsed to prevent his family from hijacking it inside the House. The implication was that when the Doctor reset it, it became the Cathedral from the TVM. Excelis Decays built upon that, stating that the makeup of the room itself was mostly his doing. He ran everything back to ensure it was working and likely built the console himself from scratch. The design is therefore likely inspired by his ancestral home or at least, that was the implication at the time. I know that the original secondary console room was what gave the Timewyrm her power... Since another pops up in Blood Heat, it's possible that room could be a smaller iteration of what eventually becomes the TVM console room and the source of the one used in Big Finish during Hex's arc (if you're more inclined to put BF just after the Timewyrm stories, during the early NAs). In the audios there's another explanation. In The Settling Ace says they've been redecorating, and the artwork for Forty-Five includes the TARDIS doors open to show the TV movie console room. The Black TARDIS, budded from the Doctor's TARDIS, has the TV movie console room (it's remarked upon that it looks like a cathedral in House of Blue Fire) and the flashback scene where the Doctor is first in there he says "you've got your mother's console". At the end of Signs and Wonders the TARDIS interior is reconfigured to an undescribed configuration. In Persuasion Will describes the console room as the one from the TV Movie (unsubtle describe the scene dialogue).
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