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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2017 5:08:50 GMT
Why does fandom get so toxic?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2017 6:41:41 GMT
Misunderstandings, vendettas, snobbery, real-world prejudices affecting fiction... You can usually tell a particularly vile party by the context of the rhetoric use, tossing around terms like "millennials" or "casuals" as if they were offensive ethnic slurs. I'm sure people can very easily think of something that people mistake for applying to their demographic, there's a lot of loose thinking about.
Putting aside sincere misunderstandings (which are frequently resolved with admissions of confusion), I suspect that a big part of it stems from a fundamental misunderstanding in how to talk with another human being in an ordinary context. They use fiction as a medium for blindsiding others who feel different, probably as a means of releasing the dissatisfaction with their own lives beyond the internet (slogans are usual). Another big factor is the notion that "confrontation must equal violence", so any argument must be met with the kind of savagery you'd often see in petty street gangs. An idea which is not only a logical fallacy, but also extremely detrimental to any meaningful discussion, which kind of defeats the point of fandoms in general really. Creation. Celebration. It's about people being and making others happy, not miserable.
The reason it gets so noxious, I think, has a lot to do with what people expect from fan culture. My advice is to never follow a group or individual that demands that you hate someone else to be accepted and, most importantly, immediately converts you to an enemy when you refuse to comply. The war hawks without self-reproach, nor admission of wrongdoing who are so lazy to believe that hating is so much easier than actually contributing anything of value. When they are considered the norm, that is when a following of people coming together to celebrate stops and an insubstantial rabble of fanatics begins. It moves haphazardly from a funfair into a book burning.
Fortunately, there's no actual need for toxicity in fandom. It's certainly never perfect, but a constructive atmosphere is achievable. What largely makes it possible is a combination self-awareness, awareness of others and an understanding that what you are reading may not be precisely what they're saying. Get enough people like that together and it becomes viable. Those who go to great lengths to try and prove otherwise are likely there to try and prey on others using tactics you'd see in a tribal warlord and often don't tend to stay very long as with no fear or anger, they feel they have no power. They depart, unable to find any recruits and people get on with what they were doing previously. Creation. Celebration. Being and making others happy.
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Post by Timelord007 on Aug 22, 2017 7:44:49 GMT
It's because we as fan's believe we own part of the show & when it doesn't go in the direction We had hoped we rebel against fandom who approve the changes & I'll put my hands up & admit i lost my temper in heated debates on other forums because I'm passionate about the show & not happy with the new direction it taking which is why i stopped going on the forums barring this one as i love you guy's & girls to much & consider you my Doctor Who family.
Remember it's ok to disagree as long as we aren't toxic & belittling to other people's opinion, i mean try having a debate on Gallifrey Base about Doctor Who, i got more chance at pulling Kelly Brook than a civilized discussion over on there.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2017 10:18:33 GMT
Another reason to be thankful for this place!
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Post by whiskeybrewer on Aug 22, 2017 11:18:15 GMT
"The Goggles they do nothing"
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2017 15:36:57 GMT
It doesn't really.
The internet gets toxic. Fandom is only one of the elements of online life this exhibits in.
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Post by nucleusofswarm on Aug 25, 2017 23:18:46 GMT
Fortunately, there's no actual need for toxicity in fandom. It's certainly never perfect, but a constructive atmosphere is achievable. And that's not delving into how a fandom can have so many subdivisions (based on everything from 'generation' to shippers to language preference), thus blurring claims of toxicity further as it may only be a minority doing it, but it blackens the rest of the fandom in internet culture. Look at what happened to MLP or Steven Universe.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2017 1:05:59 GMT
Fortunately, there's no actual need for toxicity in fandom. It's certainly never perfect, but a constructive atmosphere is achievable. And that's not delving into how a fandom can have so many subdivisions (based on everything from 'generation' to shippers to language preference), thus blurring claims of toxicity further as it may only be a minority doing it, but it blackens the rest of the fandom in internet culture. Look at what happened to MLP or Steven Universe. It's always the vocal minority. But then, when they stop shouting, that's when the measured majority should step in and say what exactly the fandom is really all about. In the case of Doctor Who, it's been inclusivity (First coming to accept and care for Ian and Barbara), tolerance (Third doesn't approve of the Brigadier's more militaristic ways, but does respect him all the same) and above all -- change (any incarnation in any period really).
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Post by barnabaslives on Aug 26, 2017 2:03:11 GMT
The internet gets toxic. Fandom is only one of the elements of online life this exhibits in. I agree with this, I've recently been in some extremely toxic internet discussions about certain academic subjects, and after abusively being told on a daily basis that you've invested your life in a dunghill, soon you might end up sorely tempted to remind the person doing it what it's like to be on the receiving end of that for a change, the same way if someone stomps on your foot hard enough often enough, it eventually inspires the thought of stomping on theirs in desperate hope of creating a small amount of empathy. All kinds of factors have probably come into play during the proceedings, from clique-oriented behaviors to the kind of things that people say from behind the bunker of Internet anonymity, to desperately wanting to believe that whatever one's picked for their own beliefs is the best, and so on and so forth. Some of it is that I just would rather not pull up stakes and take my opinions elsewhere although it's what I'll have to do eventually, I'd rather keep building on what I've posted to the particular place over the course of months now until I think I'm ready to take things elsewhere. Case in point just how silly it gets sometimes is that while I've been trying to offer what I can that may well be useful support to someone else's opinion, they've been trying to systematically rip my credibility to shreds because I happen to have my own way of looking at things. I think it may be very slow in dawning on some of them that there might be more than one right way to interpret certain things in life.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2017 8:01:50 GMT
The internet gets toxic. Fandom is only one of the elements of online life this exhibits in. I agree with this, I've recently been in some extremely toxic internet discussions about certain academic subjects, and after abusively being told on a daily basis that you've invested your life in a dunghill, soon you might end up sorely tempted to remind the person doing it what it's like to be on the receiving end of that for a change, the same way if someone stomps on your foot hard enough often enough, it eventually inspires the thought of stomping on theirs in desperate hope of creating a small amount of empathy. All kinds of factors have probably come into play during the proceedings, from clique-oriented behaviors to the kind of things that people say from behind the bunker of Internet anonymity, to desperately wanting to believe that whatever one's picked for their own beliefs is the best, and so on and so forth. Some of it is that I just would rather not pull up stakes and take my opinions elsewhere although it's what I'll have to do eventually, I'd rather keep building on what I've posted to the particular place over the course of months now until I think I'm ready to take things elsewhere. Case in point just how silly it gets sometimes is that while I've been trying to offer what I can that may well be useful support to someone else's opinion, they've been trying to systematically rip my credibility to shreds because I happen to have my own way of looking at things. I think it may be very slow in dawning on some of them that there might be more than one right way to interpret certain things in life. That's certainly something I can relate to. Believe me I know. I prefer to look at it this way to reconcile the idea in a general sense... It damn well hurts, there are no two ways about that. In the same way that getting hit with rocks in the schoolyard certainly hurts, but I find it's far more satisfying to be able to say that the malefactors and bullies weren't able to change my opinion. More than that. I was able to sway others to mine without ever having to resort to their methods. To paraphrase Lawrence, the trick of the Internet is not minding that it hurts. The road may melt the soles of your shoes and the wind snap blood from your face, but I guarantee you have more important things to worry about than the weather. If the toxic elements, who exist only to jeer and sneer, shrink so far behind anonymity to be as indistinguishable as motes of sand in the breeze, why should they be treated elsewise? We plan for these conditions, we guard ourselves against them and when they do get too heady -- when a storm becomes a hurricane -- we wait and seek other places to go in the interim. If an opinion is not welcome because the frequent majority in question are simply not open to a conversation, then that conversation must go elsewhere. To those who are willing to listen. There's always somewhere else, particularly when people tell you that there isn't. And because I'm in a quoting mood, I'm reminded of a set of lines from The Professionals, which applies really well to Internet murkiness in general:
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2017 8:33:27 GMT
Fandom is horrible. Particularly on the social media & the internet forums.
Fandom has an overinflated sense of its own importance.
Fandom thinks its opinions are somehow more valid than anyone elses.
Fandom foolishly believes it is soley responsible for the success of a show.
Fandom wants the show to be made just for them & any deviation will be seen as traitorous to the show's origins & disrespectful to fandom.
Fandom is a spurned lover watching at the window as its ex enjoys life with a new partner.
Fandom is a virus. Like all viruses it must be eradicated. Evey memoriam to fandom bearing its name then be pulled down, smashed, eradicated, torn asunder & the remains sealed in a metal box & sunk into the deepest darkest depths of the deepest darkest ocean on an uninhabited planet.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2017 9:21:09 GMT
Fandom is horrible. Particularly on the social media & the internet forums. Fandom has an overinflated sense of its own importance. Fandom thinks its opinions are somehow more valid than anyone elses. Fandom foolishly believes it is soley responsible for the success of a show. Fandom wants the show to be made just for them & any deviation will be seen as traitorous to the show's origins & disrespectful to fandom. Fandom is a spurned lover watching at the window as its ex enjoys life with a new partner. Fandom is a virus. Like all viruses it must be eradicated. Evey memoriam to fandom bearing its name then be pulled down, smashed, eradicated, torn asunder & the remains sealed in a metal box & sunk into the deepest darkest depths of the deepest darkest ocean on an uninhabited planet. Important question then: Why air this in a social setting that has been deliberately constructed around the idea of fandom? Particularly in a setting like this where empathy and camaraderie are encouraged amongst those who share a common interest? What does soliloquising its faults contribute? *shrug* Why be here?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2017 9:33:01 GMT
Fandom is horrible. Particularly on the social media & the internet forums. Fandom has an overinflated sense of its own importance. Fandom thinks its opinions are somehow more valid than anyone elses. Fandom foolishly believes it is soley responsible for the success of a show. Fandom wants the show to be made just for them & any deviation will be seen as traitorous to the show's origins & disrespectful to fandom. Fandom is a spurned lover watching at the window as its ex enjoys life with a new partner. Fandom is a virus. Like all viruses it must be eradicated. Evey memoriam to fandom bearing its name then be pulled down, smashed, eradicated, torn asunder & the remains sealed in a metal box & sunk into the deepest darkest depths of the deepest darkest ocean on an uninhabited planet. Ha! I'll meet you there then!
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Post by mark687 on Aug 26, 2017 9:43:21 GMT
Fandom is horrible. Particularly on the social media & the internet forums. Fandom has an overinflated sense of its own importance. Fandom thinks its opinions are somehow more valid than anyone elses. Fandom foolishly believes it is soley responsible for the success of a show. Fandom wants the show to be made just for them & any deviation will be seen as traitorous to the show's origins & disrespectful to fandom. Fandom is a spurned lover watching at the window as its ex enjoys life with a new partner. Fandom is a virus. Like all viruses it must be eradicated. Evey memoriam to fandom bearing its name then be pulled down, smashed, eradicated, torn asunder & the remains sealed in a metal box & sunk into the deepest darkest depths of the deepest darkest ocean on an uninhabited planet. Important question then: Why air this in a social setting that has been deliberately constructed around the idea of fandom? Particularly in a setting like this where empathy and camaraderie are encouraged amongst those who share a common interest? What does soliloquising its faults contribute? *shrug* Why be here? Agreed with wolfie53 Are you saying johnhurtdoctor that there's no room anymore for both consensus and debate? Unless your a fan who likes everything about something you shouldn't call yourself a fan?
Regards
mark687
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2017 15:32:56 GMT
Fandom is horrible. Particularly on the social media & the internet forums. Fandom has an overinflated sense of its own importance. Fandom thinks its opinions are somehow more valid than anyone elses. Fandom foolishly believes it is soley responsible for the success of a show. Fandom wants the show to be made just for them & any deviation will be seen as traitorous to the show's origins & disrespectful to fandom. Fandom is a spurned lover watching at the window as its ex enjoys life with a new partner. Fandom is a virus. Like all viruses it must be eradicated. Evey memoriam to fandom bearing its name then be pulled down, smashed, eradicated, torn asunder & the remains sealed in a metal box & sunk into the deepest darkest depths of the deepest darkest ocean on an uninhabited planet. That is little bit extreme... even my inner Dalek persona is going Ex-Treeeeeme... So we can't both be wrong!
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