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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2020 12:25:42 GMT
Another thought that just occurred on the loss of interest in the MR in recent years. The MR IMHO went through a really good period in 2012-16 and look how often Messrs Fitton, Dorney, and Jonathan Morris wrote for it during that period. Since 2016 however Fitton and Dorney have written one story each, while Jonathan Morris has written 2 1/2. Mr Briggs himself has not written for it since The Defectors in 2015. So BF is no longer using their top* writers on it *Admittedly the concept of who are the "top" writers is a very subjective one, and this is perhaps where my argument falls down For what it's worth, this would coincide roughly with the time Alan Barnes decided he was going to step down as script editor, and Big Finish allocated the three monthly range Doctors to myself, John Ainsworth and Emma Haigh/David Richardson - all with the intention that individual teams could dedicate more time to keeping these strands fresh, finding new writers, etc. So it's really not an indication of disinterest, quite the opposite...
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Post by Digi on Jan 9, 2020 12:39:48 GMT
Thanks, Scott.
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Post by mark687 on Jan 9, 2020 12:47:41 GMT
Another thought that just occurred on the loss of interest in the MR in recent years. The MR IMHO went through a really good period in 2012-16 and look how often Messrs Fitton, Dorney, and Jonathan Morris wrote for it during that period. Since 2016 however Fitton and Dorney have written one story each, while Jonathan Morris has written 2 1/2. Mr Briggs himself has not written for it since The Defectors in 2015. So BF is no longer using their top* writers on it *Admittedly the concept of who are the "top" writers is a very subjective one, and this is perhaps where my argument falls down For what it's worth, this would coincide roughly with the time Alan Barnes decided he was going to step down as script editor, and Big Finish allocated the three monthly range Doctors to myself, John Ainsworth and Emma Haigh/David Richardson - all with the intention that individual teams could dedicate more time to keeping these strands fresh, finding new writers, etc. So it's really not an indication of disinterest, quite the opposite... Which I applaud but also a good number of us Subscribe and currently are in our last possible Sub period, Customers having a idea release strategy past next March might be a good idea, similary and even more immediately with the Torchwood Monthly's (The last 2 years have gone real quick BTW) Regards mark687
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2020 12:50:36 GMT
As a freelancer, I've no control over those kind of announcements... I was just clarifying that the fact new writers were coming in was no indication of disinterest in the range on Big Finish's part - rather than new producers had been assigned to look after each Doctor and were keen to introduce different voices.
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dorney
Big Finish Creative Team
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Post by dorney on Jan 9, 2020 13:42:02 GMT
Also - I’m not sure I’ve ever written massively for the monthly range, personally. (And I’d throw Andrew Smith in as a big hitter alongside Guy, personally).
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lidar2
Castellan
You know, now that you mention it, I actually do rather like Attack of the Cybermen ...
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Post by lidar2 on Jan 9, 2020 14:23:35 GMT
Also - I’m not sure I’ve ever written massively for the monthly range, personally. (And I’d throw Andrew Smith in as a big hitter alongside Guy, personally). For the 5 years I mentioned the combined numbers are a follows for the 3 writers I mentioned: 2012 - 6 2013 - 6.5 (counting Seeds of War as a half) 2014 - 2 2015 - 4.75 (Terror of Sontarans as a half, You Are the Doctor as a quarter) 2016 - 4 That is a total of 23.25 out of 65 releases. Average 4.85 per year or 35.7%.
In the 3 subsequent years the numbers are: 2017 - 2.5 (Vortex Ice/Cortex Fear as the half) 2018 - 0 2019 - 2 That is a total of 4.5 out of 39 releases. Average 1.5 per year or 11.5%.
So whilst you can disagree with the inferences and conclusions that I have drawn from the numbers, I don't think you can disagree with the numbers themselves. The 3 writers have dropped from over a third of the MR to just over a tenth.
IMHO the 3 writers are BF's top writers in terms of both quality and quantity of their output (although JM does seem to be writing a bit less than before, more's the pity) and the decline in the overall quality of the MR has coincided with their becoming less involved.
That's not to disparage other writers and there have been some excellent releases in 2017-19, but the overall MR seems to have lost a certain oomph compared to what it was.
The other way to gauge loss of interest is to look at where Nick Briggs has been writing/directing. Now Nick is a great writer, don't get me wrong, but he is, how should I put it, not above taking advantage of his position as executive producer to hog the best / most high profile writing/directing assignments for himself. Examples of this would be writing a lot of the early Tom Baker releases (9 out of the 21 releases that made up season 1-3 of the 4DAs), the first War Dr box set, the first War Master episode, the 6th Dr's regeneration story, Space 1999, The Prisoner and directing the Tenth Doctor Adventures, etc. etc. The fact that Nick has elected not to write for the MR since 2015 also tells you something. Maybe he will be announced as the writer of the next MR trilogy and my theory will be proved wrong. If so, fair enough.
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dorney
Big Finish Creative Team
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Post by dorney on Jan 9, 2020 14:29:30 GMT
The totals is a different thing. There have plenty from Jonny and Matt, sure, but I’m way behind. I think I’ve only done five (full).
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2020 15:03:48 GMT
I think the last couple of years have been very good for the Doctor Who main range, regardless of the writers involved. Any stories that haven't worked for me generally tend to be partnerships or villains I'm not overly fond of in the first place. The fact that BF's 'Premier League' of writers are elsewhere isn't the issue for me, new writers could bring new ideas to the main range so I have no problem with that.
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Post by Digi on Jan 9, 2020 16:26:20 GMT
I think there's probably a certain appeal in using the Monthly Range as a 'proving ground' for new writers. It's a venue where they have an opportunity to write a new, completely standalone story which doesn't need to work in the wider context of a tightly-plotted 4-episode box set.
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Post by tuigirl on Jan 9, 2020 18:22:52 GMT
I think the last couple of years have been very good for the Doctor Who main range, regardless of the writers involved. Any stories that haven't worked for me generally tend to be partnerships or villains I'm not overly fond of in the first place. The fact that BF's 'Premier League' of writers are elsewhere isn't the issue for me, new writers could bring new ideas to the main range so I have no problem with that. Exactly that.
I also do not think that the Main Range is suffering for a lack of "premier league writer" activity. In the past 2 years, we had some amazing Main Range releases.
Yes, we also had a few average and a couple bad ones, but overall, I was quite happy with my subscription and felt I had gotten value for money. This is the reason I renewed my subscription, even without knowing what is coming next for the coming year.
Well, not completely true, at least we have a rough idea, there is another trilogy with Sixie and Constance and Flip and the continuation of the stories with Five and Marc.
I am very much looking forward to both.
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ljwilson
Chancellery Guard
It's tangerine....not orange
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Post by ljwilson on Jan 9, 2020 18:54:09 GMT
I also cant agree with the MR being pushed down the pecking order or the output being poorer for it.
The MR has always ebbed and flowed in terms of quality. The Divergent Universe, the run leading up to 200...and on the flip side, the run after 200, the Aquitaine esq trilogy etc.
I still think BF want to change the format due to the current CD model, and who can blame them with the sales graph only heading in one direction. It costs them, and they end up giving them away for 4.99 a couple of years later.
I can see CDs remaining, but in limited numbers for the collectors.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2020 21:19:36 GMT
The MR has always ebbed and flowed in terms of quality. That's true, but with thirteen releases a year it stands to reason that they can't all be classics. Every range of audios has it's peaks and troughs in regards to perceived story quality - everyone is different in their likes and dislikes of course - but the monthly releases have been around so long it's easy to pick out 'bad runs' somewhere. Overall though the range has had more highs than lows for me... and it is still my favourite range.
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Post by Audio Watchdog on Jan 9, 2020 22:38:32 GMT
When each Doctor received its own producer/story editor, Big Finish made clear the Main Range/Monthly Range was a priority. For the first time in its history you have three separate production teams working with Doctors 5, 6, and 7. How is that not a statement and a sign of Big Finish’s continuing commitment to the monthly adventures of The Doctor?
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lidar2
Castellan
You know, now that you mention it, I actually do rather like Attack of the Cybermen ...
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Post by lidar2 on Jan 9, 2020 23:22:39 GMT
When each Doctor received its own producer/story editor, Big Finish made clear the Main Range/Monthly Range was a priority. For the first time in its history you have three separate production teams working with Doctors 5, 6, and 7. How is that not a statement and a sign of Big Finish’s continuing commitment to the monthly adventures of The Doctor? I never actually doubted their commitment to producing regular adventures for 5/6/7. But I only questioned their commitment to the current MR sales/marketing model of 13 releases per year, 4 trilogies plus one extra, sold in subs of 6 or 12, released one per month except the month with 2, marketed as one single Monthly Adventures Range.
The separate production teams means that from a production point of view the MR has already been split into 3 separate ranges and what Nick seemed to be saying in the podcast was that the sales/marketing model for what we currently call the MR will change in some way. What he said was something like all the other Docs have their own ranges, so why should these 3 be lumped together in one range just because they were the 3 we started with 20 years ago. So when I talked about a loss of interest in the MR I definitely see a loss of interest in the "Main Range" as it is currently configured, but in no way do I see a loss of interest in Docs 5/6/7. And if the behind-the-scenes split into 3 separate ranges is about revitalising the releases with Docs 5/6/7, then I see it as evidence of continuing commitment to Docs 5/6/7 and a precursor to the change in the sales/marketing model Nick seemed to be talking about, rather than a commitment to preserve the MR format as it currently is.
Having split the back end of the MR I think their next move will be to split the front end along similar lines, in effect some kind of rebranding exercise. This might mean as little as additional options for Dr-specific subs or bundles and/or 3 release trilogy subscriptions, or possibly the MR might be replaced by something branded as the 5DAs, the 6 DAs and the 7DAs each running for 3 months one after the other with options for 3, 6 or 12 release subs. They may also re-start the numbering as 5DA 1.1, 6DA 1.1, etc, as release #262 is probably rather daunting and off-putting for newbies.
Separate to that, but possibly not linked, seems to be a strategy to use their best writers elsewhere. And in any organisation I have ever been involved in, whether professionally or on a voluntary basis, you put your best people on the really important jobs and let others do the less important jobs. That's not to denigrate any of the other writers on the MR, but as I said above box sets seem to be where all the action is nowadays.
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Post by Audio Watchdog on Jan 10, 2020 0:26:03 GMT
Yet you are denigrating those writers that you deem not their “best.”
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Post by masterdoctor on Jan 10, 2020 0:45:05 GMT
Adding to this discussion, there is no way that I can be said that high profile writers at Big Finish get the most lucrative jobs, and that the newest members go to places such as the Monthly Range, because they are of a lesser quality. Writers such as David Barnes, Lisa McMullin, Carl Rowens, Blair Mowat, Tim Foley, James Kettle, Janine H. Jones. These are all names of writers who are given high profile releases to write for, before or at the same time as writing for the Monthly Range. It is disingenuous to say that Big Finish put lesser names on writing duties in any range, both to Big Finish and the writers.
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lidar2
Castellan
You know, now that you mention it, I actually do rather like Attack of the Cybermen ...
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Post by lidar2 on Jan 10, 2020 1:06:29 GMT
Another interesting thing ...
A quick scroll down the Vortex page on the BF website shows that the MR has not been the main cover picture and headline since July 2015. Up to that point the MR was the main cover item for 2 or 3 issues a year. Again, it suggests BF's main interests lie elsewhere nowadays.
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Post by Audio Watchdog on Jan 10, 2020 1:06:56 GMT
Adding to this discussion, there is no way that I can be said that high profile writers at Big Finish get the most lucrative jobs, and that the newest members go to places such as the Monthly Range, because they are of a lesser quality. Writers such as David Barnes, Lisa McMullin, Carl Rowens, Blair Mowat, Tim Foley, James Kettle, Janine H. Jones. These are all names of writers who are given high profile releases to write for, before or at the same time as writing for the Monthly Range. It is disingenuous to say that Big Finish put lesser names on writing duties in any range, both to Big Finish and the writers. James Goss. Andrew Smith. Roland Moore.
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Post by Audio Watchdog on Jan 10, 2020 1:07:54 GMT
Another interesting thing ... A quick scroll down the Vortex page on the BF website shows that the MR has not been the main cover picture and headline since July 2015. Up to that point the MR was the main cover item for 2 or 3 issues a year. Again, it suggests BF's main interests lie elsewhere nowadays. Maybe to you it does.
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Post by tuigirl on Jan 10, 2020 7:08:38 GMT
Hmm. I think the wording "best" writers is wrong. That is of very subjective opinion.
There are plenty of examples of things everybody raves about as "the best" that I do not like, and many things I love that other people dislike.
I think you might mean "higher profile" or "more experienced". But I still think we got some really great releases these past 2 years.
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