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Post by shallacatop on Jul 26, 2020 20:55:06 GMT
I think the talk of it being a conspiracy or a big fuss being made of it is exaggerated.
I certainly don’t think I’m making any big leaps of logic or saying anything far fetched, just utilising what we know and offering a view of what I think has happened.
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dorney
Big Finish Creative Team
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Post by dorney on Jul 26, 2020 21:00:49 GMT
Oh, not a worry. For what it’s worth, I do get the curiosity. I understand that. All I’m saying, really, is that sometimes things get delayed. For a variety of reasons, some of which you’d never guess. It happens. Sometimes things get edits after the fact too (without changing the release date in the slightest!). Certainly as I’ve mentioned above, Robots 2 was due out last month, but has come out this month. I think there was less explanation for that than Lovecraft, but somehow this is the one that’s caught the imagination. Anyhow... The Robots was moved back a month well in advance of its originally scheduled release date, whilst Lovecraft was taken off the schedule altogether with two days left in June where it could have come out. We also already knew that Lovecraft was going to be tackling multiple issues that were currently in the headlines (racism, whether it is possible to separate an artist with problematic views from their art). I'm not sure it's that surprising, all things considered, that the delay of Lovecraft caught the imagination. Sure. But there’s nothing in there that really justifies the reaction. As I say. Things get delayed.
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dorney
Big Finish Creative Team
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Post by dorney on Jul 26, 2020 21:02:30 GMT
I think the talk of it being a conspiracy or a big fuss being made of it is exaggerated. I certainly don’t think I’m making any big leaps of logic or saying anything far fetched, just utilising what we know and offering a view of what I think has happened. which is all fine. I’ve speculated about things on forums for decades.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2020 21:09:14 GMT
I just wish they'd hurry up and release the damn thing so we can move on and start speculating about something else...
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Post by muckypup on Jul 26, 2020 21:18:07 GMT
I think the talk of it being a conspiracy or a big fuss being made of it is exaggerated. I certainly don’t think I’m making any big leaps of logic or saying anything far fetched, just utilising what we know and offering a view of what I think has happened. which is all fine. I’ve speculated about things on forums for decades. can we speculate on that doctor who movie script you writing in secret.......lol
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Post by coffeeaddict on Jul 26, 2020 23:50:25 GMT
I think the talk of it being a conspiracy or a big fuss being made of it is exaggerated. I certainly don’t think I’m making any big leaps of logic or saying anything far fetched, just utilising what we know and offering a view of what I think has happened. which is all fine. I’ve speculated about things on forums for decades. I think for many, the main complaint is that people would appreciate BF being upfront and saying "the release has been delayed for X..." Realizing of course that there may be valid reasons for not doing so, what many of us perceive as a lack of transparency leads to speculation of this sort and I would suspect likely far worse commentary directed towards BF and their staff on social media platforms. For myself, I would like to know the reasons why it was delayed, but I don't care enough to make a fuss over it - it isn't like it is going to be held back a few years before it gets released.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2020 0:50:46 GMT
It's kind of obvious why this one has caught the imagination. Releases get delayed all the time but not with 2 days left to the end of the month they were due. And not with a subject matter that became a lot more controversial between announcement and the release. We know from the Vortex preview this story wasn't going to really adress the racism of Lovecraft bar a mention. That flew in April or whenever...post-BLM not so much for a lot of people. Many shows, films, sports teams, businesses became proactive after the George Floyd murder and have made concerted efforts to take action. It's a perfect storm for people to speculate that the content is either being re-written or re-edited as BF trying to do the same. I don't think anyone has gone tin-foil hat over it so throwing round terms like conspiracy theories doesn't really do much but antagonise but nor does accusing BF of dishonesty based on nothing but believing there's some conspiracy. People like to be informed in fandom, especially over something they've actually, y'know, paid for but at the same time we aren't entitled to know the ins and outs of a private company. As John D says himself, even he doesn't get told the nitty gritty and as we know from things like BF talking about Dreyfus being the first Master or the fictious 5th Doctor boxset this week...sometimes the "office" and the creatives aren't singing from the same hymnsheet. Mistakes happen though and at the risk of being sycophantic, I tend to think the best of BF and those who work for them as even when things do go wrong they're never insidious, just clumsy. Plus, I like their Chistmas cards. I personally don't care too much about the delay. The story when it comes out will be what it is - if anything HAS been changed for content....well, that's still the released version. It'll stand regardless. Just like when Robot Of Sherwood in S8 on TV was re-edited to remove a beheading and the big reveal that the Sheriff was part robot himself. That was to be aired just days after some extremist terror involving Britons being beheaded made the scene not suitable. The revised version is what is on the blurays for posterity and that is "the story" now, so the sheriff isn't a robot and there was no beheading. Same as this release, if anything is revised then that's the version that will be going on the shelves and on the hard drives. We pay for BF but that doesn't give us any right to dictate editorial control. Untill it's released it's theirs to tinker with. Like so much BF passionate debate it does stem from a lack of communication but I do think they are sincere in saying that as licencees rather than owners they can't say quite as much as perhaps they'd like. If something affected, say, one of the BF Originals and it was re-edited for content I'm guessing they'd be free, or feel more free at least, to say "Here's why....". Corporate charters, licencing and so on may be rather dull but they have been responsible for a lot of issues people lay at the feet of BF but that are quite out of their hands as custodians of the franchise who are looking for a longer licence and more toys to play with. In the meantime...Adam Adamant 2 is out soon and that's gonna be better than this anyway.
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dorney
Big Finish Creative Team
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Post by dorney on Jul 27, 2020 8:22:44 GMT
which is all fine. I’ve speculated about things on forums for decades. I think for many, the main complaint is that people would appreciate BF being upfront and saying "the release has been delayed for X..." Realizing of course that there may be valid reasons for not doing so, what many of us perceive as a lack of transparency leads to speculation of this sort and I would suspect likely far worse commentary directed towards BF and their staff on social media platforms. For myself, I would like to know the reasons why it was delayed, but I don't care enough to make a fuss over it - it isn't like it is going to be held back a few years before it gets released. Technically, as I say, BF have said ‘the release has been delayed for X...’. (Which I don’t recall The Robots getting).
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Post by mark687 on Jul 27, 2020 10:16:55 GMT
It's kind of obvious why this one has caught the imagination. Releases get delayed all the time but not with 2 days left to the end of the month they were due. And not with a subject matter that became a lot more controversial between announcement and the release. We know from the Vortex preview this story wasn't going to really adress the racism of Lovecraft bar a mention. That flew in April or whenever...post-BLM not so much for a lot of people. Many shows, films, sports teams, businesses became proactive after the George Floyd murder and have made concerted efforts to take action. It's a perfect storm for people to speculate that the content is either being re-written or re-edited as BF trying to do the same. I don't think anyone has gone tin-foil hat over it so throwing round terms like conspiracy theories doesn't really do much but antagonise but nor does accusing BF of dishonesty based on nothing but believing there's some conspiracy. People like to be informed in fandom, especially over something they've actually, y'know, paid for but at the same time we aren't entitled to know the ins and outs of a private company. As John D says himself, even he doesn't get told the nitty gritty and as we know from things like BF talking about Dreyfus being the first Master or the fictious 5th Doctor boxset this week...sometimes the "office" and the creatives aren't singing from the same hymnsheet. Mistakes happen though and at the risk of being sycophantic, I tend to think the best of BF and those who work for them as even when things do go wrong they're never insidious, just clumsy. Plus, I like their Chistmas cards. I personally don't care too much about the delay. The story when it comes out will be what it is - if anything HAS been changed for content....well, that's still the released version. It'll stand regardless. Just like when Robot Of Sherwood in S8 on TV was re-edited to remove a beheading and the big reveal that the Sheriff was part robot himself. That was to be aired just days after some extremist terror involving Britons being beheaded made the scene not suitable. The revised version is what is on the blurays for posterity and that is "the story" now, so the sheriff isn't a robot and there was no beheading. Same as this release, if anything is revised then that's the version that will be going on the shelves and on the hard drives. We pay for BF but that doesn't give us any right to dictate editorial control. Untill it's released it's theirs to tinker with. Like so much BF passionate debate it does stem from a lack of communication but I do think they are sincere in saying that as licencees rather than owners they can't say quite as much as perhaps they'd like. If something affected, say, one of the BF Originals and it was re-edited for content I'm guessing they'd be free, or feel more free at least, to say "Here's why....". Corporate charters, licencing and so on may be rather dull but they have been responsible for a lot of issues people lay at the feet of BF but that are quite out of their hands as custodians of the franchise who are looking for a longer licence and more toys to play with. In the meantime...Adam Adamant 2 is out soon and that's gonna be better than this anyway. Did you get one last year?! Regards mark687
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2020 22:11:20 GMT
I tend to think the best of BF and those who work for them as even when things do go wrong they're never insidious, just clumsy. I certainly wouldn't think anyone at Big Finish has acted insidiously in this matter either. I do think they make some silly PR mistakes on occasions but I'm sure they are all doing their best in these difficult times. Doctor Who fans are passionate people so Big Finish should be delighted that their company can produce such passion about their products in this tiny backwater of the interweb... so I did understand the speculation when this release was delayed at very short notice, as it was frustrating. And yes, as fans we do have a desire to 'know' things. (That's just a thing in all fandoms!) But whether The Lovecraft Invasion was delayed because of production problems caused by Covid-19/lockdown or because the BBC asked them to make some changes doesn't really bother me. As a Main Range subscriber I just want the story to be released so we can get our MR release schedule back on track, as I love my monthly stories. (The MR is my Doctor Who bread and butter!) Word is The Lovecraft Invasion will be out this week, so here's hoping that it is...
... then we can all try and guess which parts might have been changed!
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Post by fantasticalice on Jul 28, 2020 5:11:03 GMT
I tend to think the best of BF and those who work for them as even when things do go wrong they're never insidious, just clumsy. I certainly wouldn't think anyone at Big Finish has acted insidiously in this matter either. I do think they make some silly PR mistakes on occasions but I'm sure they are all doing their best in these difficult times. Doctor Who fans are passionate people so Big Finish should be delighted that their company can produce such passion about their products in this tiny backwater of the interweb... so I did understand the speculation when this release was delayed at very short notice, as it was frustrating. And yes, as fans we do have a desire to 'know' things. (That's just a thing in all fandoms!) But whether The Lovecraft Invasion was delayed because of production problems caused by Covid-19/lockdown or because the BBC asked them to make some changes doesn't really bother me. As a Main Range subscriber I just want the story to be released so we can get our MR release schedule back on track, as I love my monthly stories. (The MR is my Doctor Who bread and butter!) Word is The Lovecraft Invasion will be out this week, so here's hoping that it is...
... then we can all try and guess which parts might have been changed!
Been catching up on this and I can think of so many benign ideas for it to be delayed. I know we didn't have much direct info on the Jackie short trips and I can see a couple different reasons for Licence once overs. 51st Century characters and some possible New Series elements often pop up in Classic Who but sometimes need tweaking per licence. A new companion shows up in the story. Are they actually a new companion, is this something they need approval for? I've heard lots of stuff about licence victories and licence changes for what seems minor but ends up taking more time. Now just me personally: I know the new character(who is also NB) is played by a non binary actor. As someone who uses Xie/xem pronouns themselves I am very excited about this as I don't get a chance to see characters who reflect that side of myself often. Thankfully I DO see a lot of Lesbians in BF so that side of my personality is overflowin with riches:) And even though BF has been ingenious at adapting to pandemic recording there are a lot more things that can go wrong with even the most polished recording sessions. And with this one in particular could involve international recordings with all the American characters. I think our best bet is to stay excited and remember that anytime a project has been delayed it's almost always worth the wait. And the more adept BF get at being the modern geniuses they are the more exciting stuff we will get to see. They might finally make me a Tenth Doctor fan. Big Finish is the only production company I trust to represent me and the people I care and whether its more BIPOC characters, LGBTQ characters and now a NB character I support them as best I can. I am frowny about it taking so long but that's because I am really excited to see a NB mercenary.
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Post by johnhurtdoctor on Jul 28, 2020 7:39:31 GMT
Interesting stuff. Not sure how the pandemic would have impacted on recording as it was recorded on 29-30 January 2020 at Moat Studios. Unless changes required meant retakes & actor availability has led to delays. Although still odd that a decision was made so close to the final release date.
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Post by xlozdob on Jul 28, 2020 10:15:03 GMT
Just speculating, but the fact that they've released the Short Trip now makes me think they've been waiting to release Time Apart until Lovecraft Invasion (dl only) was ready and they're going to be released together at the end of this week.
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Post by nitronine on Jul 28, 2020 11:18:46 GMT
Just speculating, but the fact that they've released the Short Trip now makes me think they've been waiting to release Time Apart until Lovecraft Invasion (dl only) was ready and they're going to be released together at the end of this week. That's what I was thinking. Completely guessing but if they believe that they can get Lovecraft Invasion out before the end of the month then they'll do it before/at the same time as Time Apart so nothing gets released out of order.
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Post by mark687 on Jul 28, 2020 11:34:25 GMT
Just speculating, but the fact that they've released the Short Trip now makes me think they've been waiting to release Time Apart until Lovecraft Invasion (dl only) was ready and they're going to be released together at the end of this week. That's what I was thinking. Completely guessing but if they believe that they can get Lovecraft Invasion out before the end of the month then they'll do it before/at the same time as Time Apart so nothing gets released out of order. Yes i'm thinking there's a slight chance of a double release in a couple of days. Regards mark687
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Post by theillusiveman on Jul 28, 2020 11:37:39 GMT
Would be hilarious if both Lovecraft invasion and time apart were delayed together to next month
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Post by elkawho on Jul 28, 2020 11:46:58 GMT
Would be hilarious if both Lovecraft invasion and time apart were delayed together to next month No. No it wouldn't. Shush.
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Post by elkawho on Jul 28, 2020 11:47:46 GMT
28th of July. No monthly story since May. I frustrated. That is all.
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Post by number13 on Jul 28, 2020 12:39:01 GMT
By this stage if I thought there was any chance of a part-refund on my sub and they can just keep the wretched Lovecraft thing, I'd be emailing customer services.
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Post by fantasticalice on Jul 28, 2020 16:26:12 GMT
Re: recording dates
There's a lot of post production on every release. At the end of the day the recording date is just that. Decisions on individual takes, tone, and lots of other things are often decided in the booth based on interviews. But then there's music, sound effects, general sound design, polishing the audio.
BF is also a very collaborative process between the director and the actors involved. When was the music written? Most likely after recording the vocals. Sound effects/sound design perhaps as well.
I don't know the order of thse things but as far as I know the recording dates are with the actors and Directors and possibly most of the crew. It's not necessarily when sound design and music is completed.
It's not my business when BF finalises the Sound Design and Music for each release but it's a separate process to recording and directing actors.
I wouldn't be surprised pre covid if the UK based composers and sound designers took the chance to be at the recording sessions to get a feel for it but my understanding is they work with a mostly complete recording so they have the clearest idea of how to meld everything together.
I think BF has sound design and musix composition that can easily beat out 50% of TV and films. And just like films and TV those wouldn't be completed at the same time as vocal recording.
I used to be a film student and obviously post production on a audio "Film" is different than a visual medium but BF has sound design superior to a lot of albums I grew up listening to.
My point is knowing the date the crew got together to record all the actors and discuss takes, directing and all of the more esoteric aspects of a production doesn't mean we know when it was ready to be pressed as a CD.
And everyone switching to at home setups would definitely affect anything recorded in January and February(and I'm not sure if there was any studio recording in March)
It's pretty impressive how few delays we have had to tell the truth. And I would not be surprised at all to hear some releases In The Can were pushed up(we know specific examples) and some media announcements made earlier than planned so we would have more to look forward to.
And All. The. David Tennant. And apparently his Father in law has been hard at work too.
Just as a general thing every major form of recorded media whether it is audio drama or Film has a lot of post production involved.
And even though some BF stalwarts may have had extensive home setups already switching your entire production machine from your existing spaces to most likely 100% at home is a tremendous enterprise and not an easy feat.
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