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Post by omega on Sept 16, 2017 8:54:32 GMT
I'd like Big Finish to explore characters like the Monk, the Rani and Drax in a Time War setting. The Rani would be recruited to fight the war on a scientific front, she's got no morals and I bet she'd leap at the chance to do some time experiments. However if she wants to, but is discouraged from exploring another field, that's got possibilities. The Monk would be his usual self, but forced to fly even lower under the radar than he's used to. He'd be forced to slum it to avoid the Time Lords, the Daleks and anyone who holds an ill view of the Time Lords (which is a lot of anyones), basically he'd have turned to desperation. Pinning the blame on the Doctor just to escape intact wouldn't be beneath him at all.
As for Drax, someone has to help the rogue Time Lords trying to avoid conscription. Time Lords who want nothing to do with the conflict and are content to lay low. The Divergent Universe could be just the bolt hole. You can't fight a Time War in a universe where there is no time. Or a secret mission to recover Rassilon from the Divergent Universe. There's so much Big Finish continuity that can be mined for Time War stories. How about a suicide run of Nekestani time craft for good measure. They used to pop up everywhere.
If the Time Lords are willing to harness the power of the black hole, Omega could join the fray. And as the Web of Time becomes increasingly strained, Anti-Time seeps in, and the Time Lords and the Daleks have a choice to make. Do they work together to banish it, or do they fight each other to weaponise it?
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Post by sherlock on Sept 16, 2017 9:13:18 GMT
I like the idea of a Time Lord Suicide Squad. Have Ollistra in charge (just cos she's the go-to bossy Time Lady) and have her forcefully recruit the Rani (ruthless and scientifically a genius), the Monk (temporal meddling expertise, useful in a Time War), Drax (tech support) and maybe the Eleven (insane and ruthless). After all, who better to send to probable death or erasure from history than the renegades the Time Lords never wanted in the first place.
There is so much continuity Big Finish could plunder for good stories, for instance the New Series is seemingly absent of the Temporal Powers (and you'd have thought the absence of the Time Lords would have led to them being far more active) so presumably the Time War spread to them. Did they ally with the Time Lords or just get pulled into the conflict and wiped out? As for the Divergent Universe, what if the Time Lords brokered a deal with the Divergents and released them from the time looped universe to fight the Daleks (and at the same time subtly retrieved Rassilon)? There are so many possibilities, if Big Finish choose to exploit their well of continuity or even if they don't. I just hope Big Finish use this huge canvas to tell good stories.
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Post by omega on Sept 16, 2017 9:25:09 GMT
There is so much continuity Big Finish could plunder for good stories, for instance the New Series is seemingly absent of the Temporal Powers (and you'd have thought the absence of the Time Lords would have led to them being far more active) so presumably the Time War spread to them. Did they ally with the Time Lords or just get pulled into the conflict and wiped out? As for the Divergent Universe, what if the Time Lords brokered a deal with the Divergents and released them from the time looped universe to fight the Daleks (and at the same time subtly retrieved Rassilon)? There are so many possibilities, if Big Finish choose to exploit their well of continuity or even if they don't. I just hope Big Finish use this huge canvas to tell good stories. The Eighth Doctor novels following The Ancestor Cell (where Gallifrey was destroyed and Faction Paradox unwritten to stop the Second War in Heaven from happening) had a few Temporal Powers. The Onihr desired time travel, and had even found Time Lord robes (they looked like bipedal rhinos, the book Trading Futures was published in 2002). Sabbath crossed paths with the Doctor, Fitz and Anji many times. The Council of Eight killed the Doctor's companions at various points in his timeline. This subplot was also in the Past Doctor stories published at the time, claiming companions like Harry (turned into a werewolf in Wolfsbane), Mel (Heritage), Ace (Loving the Alien) and Sarah Jane (Bullet Time, that was left ambiguous). There's also Benny stuff as well. The Time War would be the perfect environment for Brax to work his skills. The Epoch's technology or their creators. The Unbound Universe. The Ferutu. |
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Post by omega on Sept 16, 2017 9:37:07 GMT
The Time War would also be the ideal setting to have some elements leaking through to earlier in the Doctor's timeline, or into a pre-Time War setting. With the wear and tear on the fabric of time and space increasing something could fall through the cracks. The Doctor has to face the effect before the cause happens, and part of the drama comes from the Doctor ensuring he's around to be in a position to prevent the Time War leaking into pre-Time War and spreading it even further. Could be a multi-Doctor, with two Eighth Doctors, one from early on in his own timeline (around the Mary Shelley, Gemma and Samson pre-Charley days), and comparing that with the more universe weary Time War Eighth Doctor.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2017 9:48:36 GMT
Honestly, I really, really liked the approach taken with Faction Paradox. Fully sentient TARDISes swallowing entire shadow cities stitched together from various eras of lost time, architecture that has been deliberately programmed to alter and kill you, an entity that exists only as a form of sentient propaganda, a Rome that never fell and post-WWII Nazi superpower at war with one another, an incarnation of the Master who has abandoned his renegade existence to become the Lord President, a form of psychotic space from another wholly alien universe whose taint still exists in the Great Vampires, etc.
The Magic Bullet stories with the Osirians are so fundamentally entwined with what a time war should look like that it's really hard to go back to the LotR-style armies of millions charging on a battlefield (not without Thoth and Anubis rolling dice at the centre to change the very ebb and flow of the battle around them). It seems like such a step down from a literal war of ideas where the enemy can go back to yesterday and ensure that you've always been on their side.
Go nuts I say. Everything is up for grabs. Literally, spiritually, metaphysically, all of it. Think big. Really big. Like "all-continuity-on-a-strip-of-LSD" big.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2017 9:53:22 GMT
The Time War would also be the ideal setting to have some elements leaking through to earlier in the Doctor's timeline, or into a pre-Time War setting. With the wear and tear on the fabric of time and space increasing something could fall through the cracks. The Doctor has to face the effect before the cause happens, and part of the drama comes from the Doctor ensuring he's around to be in a position to prevent the Time War leaking into pre-Time War and spreading it even further. Could be a multi-Doctor, with two Eighth Doctors, one from early on in his own timeline (around the Mary Shelley, Gemma and Samson pre-Charley days), and comparing that with the more universe weary Time War Eighth Doctor. That was a theory I had when the War Doctor first turned up. I thought he was the controlled variable, the only one who was able to properly tell if his timeline had been knocked asunder and where precisely he could go to put it right. Further, that a lot of the Unbound Doctors are a direct result of the War and all exist simultaneously at once, despite their chronological inconsistencies. John Hurt's incarnation just does his best under impossible circumstances and tries to maintain some version of coherent history, even if it wasn't/won't be one we recognise. When the War ended and the probabilities collapsed, he was able to hold onto his first eight incarnations with their lives largely intact, barring a few temporal war wounds here and there. Discontinuities, vagarities concerning what exactly happened during his first, seventh and eighth incarnations' lives, that sort of thing. |
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Post by omega on Sept 16, 2017 10:00:44 GMT
The Time War would also be the ideal setting to have some elements leaking through to earlier in the Doctor's timeline, or into a pre-Time War setting. With the wear and tear on the fabric of time and space increasing something could fall through the cracks. The Doctor has to face the effect before the cause happens, and part of the drama comes from the Doctor ensuring he's around to be in a position to prevent the Time War leaking into pre-Time War and spreading it even further. Could be a multi-Doctor, with two Eighth Doctors, one from early on in his own timeline (around the Mary Shelley, Gemma and Samson pre-Charley days), and comparing that with the more universe weary Time War Eighth Doctor. That was a theory I had when the War Doctor first turned up. I thought he was the controlled variable, the only one who was able to properly tell if his timeline had been knocked asunder and where precisely he could go to put it right. Further, that a lot of the Unbound Doctors are a direct result of the War and all exist simultaneously at once, despite their chronological inconsistencies. John Hurt's incarnation just does his best under impossible circumstances and tries to maintain some version of coherent history, even if it wasn't/won't be one we recognise. When the War ended and the probabilities collapsed, he was able to hold onto his first eight incarnations with their lives largely intact, barring a few temporal war wounds here and there. Discontinuities, vagarities concerning what exactly happened during his first, seventh and eighth incarnations' lives, that sort of thing. And the Time War gives a valid reason to bring in characters from the different media into the same story. You could have Liv, Destrii and Fitz working together. The sheer chaos makes for the perfect conditions for it to happen. Speaking of chaos, what about the Guardians? The chaos would be a dream for the Black Guardian. There could be a potential deal with the White Guardian to restore order but at a high price, or White takes Black out of the picture, each one cancelling the other out because they represent opposite concepts. |
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lidar2
Castellan
You know, now that you mention it, I actually do rather like Attack of the Cybermen ...
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Post by lidar2 on Sept 16, 2017 10:17:39 GMT
I would not be very interested in high concept timey wimey stories. Straightforward war stories would be what I want, the kind of Dalek Empire type stories Nick Briggs enjoys and does so well. Think of pretty much any classic war movie and do Doctor Who version.
In terms of continuity I would be interested to see the actual outbreak of the War and Eight's reasons for declining to fight.
A lot of established Time Lord characters could and should turn up, pretty much all of them we have met to date who aren't already dead, but they would all have to end up dead even much loved characters like Romana. A kind of Blakes 7-esque grimness.
I think the next batch of New Series Doctor Chronicles will likely include the War Doctor Chronicles with a narrator voicing the War Doctor and I would be fine with that.
More controversially I would like to see a younger actor cast as the younger War Doctor whose face we glimpsed at the end of Night of the Doctor. Hurt looked and sounded like a grizzled war veteran but presumably the character didn't always look and sound like that. I would not regard this as a recast in the Bradley/Treloar sense, more akin to Ewan McGregor playing the younger obi wan or De Niro playing a young Vito Corleone, ie a younger actor playing a role that the older actor could not play. However,a decent interval would have to elapse of a couple of years before this step was taken.
Then of course there is the possibility of DW versions of classic war sitcoms - Dads Army, Allo Allo.... or maybe not?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2017 10:28:35 GMT
That was a theory I had when the War Doctor first turned up. I thought he was the controlled variable, the only one who was able to properly tell if his timeline had been knocked asunder and where precisely he could go to put it right. Further, that a lot of the Unbound Doctors are a direct result of the War and all exist simultaneously at once, despite their chronological inconsistencies. John Hurt's incarnation just does his best under impossible circumstances and tries to maintain some version of coherent history, even if it wasn't/won't be one we recognise. When the War ended and the probabilities collapsed, he was able to hold onto his first eight incarnations with their lives largely intact, barring a few temporal war wounds here and there. Discontinuities, vagarities concerning what exactly happened during his first, seventh and eighth incarnations' lives, that sort of thing. And the Time War gives a valid reason to bring in characters from the different media into the same story. You could have Liv, Destrii and Fitz working together. The sheer chaos makes for the perfect conditions for it to happen. Speaking of chaos, what about the Guardians? The chaos would be a dream for the Black Guardian. There could be a potential deal with the White Guardian to restore order but at a high price, or White takes Black out of the picture, each one cancelling the other out because they represent opposite concepts. It's said the Eternals took one look at the sheer breadth of carnage and simply fled, never to be seen again. I think it'd be a rather good opportunity to see some usurpers maybe come into power, a group who may see the War as their opportunity to overthrow the Guardians of Time. White, Black, Crystal, Red, Azure, Gold, Grey, all of them. The White Guardian banished to a world where everything stands still, including him. The Black Guardian to a realm where everything is so ruthlessly chaotic that he cannot generate enough power to manifest in any meaningful sense and influence it. |
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Post by omega on Sept 16, 2017 10:33:35 GMT
And the Time War gives a valid reason to bring in characters from the different media into the same story. You could have Liv, Destrii and Fitz working together. The sheer chaos makes for the perfect conditions for it to happen. Speaking of chaos, what about the Guardians? The chaos would be a dream for the Black Guardian. There could be a potential deal with the White Guardian to restore order but at a high price, or White takes Black out of the picture, each one cancelling the other out because they represent opposite concepts. It's said the Eternals took one look at the sheer breadth of carnage and simply fled, never to be seen again. I think it'd be a rather good opportunity to see some usurpers maybe come into power, a group who may see the War as their opportunity to overthrow the Guardians of Time. White, Black, Crystal, Red, Azure, Gold, Grey, all of them. The White Guardian banished to a world where everything stands still, including him. The Black Guardian to a realm where everything is so ruthelessly chaotic that he cannot generate enough power to manifest in any meaningful sense and influence it. That is a deliciously perfect ironic hell. The absence of the Black Guardian means the White Guardian cannot manifest and vice versa. I love how that fits the idea of them representing completely opposite concepts, and highlights the importance of having both. I just love that yin and yang concept in general. The Beige and Seafoam Guardians. Or the Periwinkle Guardian. My theory about the Black and White Guardians is that they're the representation of the mind of a truly powerful celestial being. It's a battle of the mind playing out in reality. |
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Post by shallacatop on Sept 16, 2017 11:16:45 GMT
I'm very happy with just the War Doctor series as the bulk of it really. I like the idea of the Gallifrey and War Master series supporting it, and I loved the idea of the Eighth Doctor set doing that, before it became four sets.
I did like the Time War seeping into the recent Companion Chronicles set, though. I think I'd like more of that.
Basically I think those four War Doctor sets should be the main bit of the Time War and anything else should be interesting one-offs to give us a little bit more of an insight, whilst still barely scraping the surface.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2017 11:32:55 GMT
It's said the Eternals took one look at the sheer breadth of carnage and simply fled, never to be seen again. I think it'd be a rather good opportunity to see some usurpers maybe come into power, a group who may see the War as their opportunity to overthrow the Guardians of Time. White, Black, Crystal, Red, Azure, Gold, Grey, all of them. The White Guardian banished to a world where everything stands still, including him. The Black Guardian to a realm where everything is so ruthlessly chaotic that he cannot generate enough power to manifest in any meaningful sense and influence it. That is a deliciously perfect ironic hell. The absence of the Black Guardian means the White Guardian cannot manifest and vice versa. I love how that fits the idea of them representing completely opposite concepts, and highlights the importance of having both. I just love that yin and yang concept in general. The Beige and Seafoam Guardians. Or the Periwinkle Guardian. My theory about the Black and White Guardians is that they're the representation of the mind of a truly powerful celestial being. It's a battle of the mind playing out in reality. Ooh, that's a really interesting way of looking at it.  There's an NA that features a character called the Grey Man who is investigating what's going on at Shadowfell. It's never outright stated, but I get the impression from his history (he was banished by his fellows for being too complicated) and general behaviour that he's the Grey Guardian. An embodiment of the intersection that must exist at the border of yin and yang. The Light Teal Guardian... The Soothing Beige Guardian... Interestingly, all the ones I mentioned (Crystal, Red, etc.) are theoretically meant to represent other facets of Time beyond chaos and order. The Crystal Guardian (otherwise known as the Celestial Toymaker) is representative of fantasy, the Gold Guardian embodies the symbiosis between life and death and the Red Guardian is meant to symbolise justice (who might just be a post-corporeal Doctor following his final physical regeneration). |
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aztec
Chancellery Guard
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Post by aztec on Sept 16, 2017 13:52:11 GMT
I would not be very interested in high concept timey wimey stories. Straightforward war stories would be what I want, the kind of Dalek Empire type stories Nick Briggs enjoys and does so well. Think of pretty much any classic war movie and do Doctor Who version. In terms of continuity I would be interested to see the actual outbreak of the War and Eight's reasons for declining to fight. A lot of established Time Lord characters could and should turn up, pretty much all of them we have met to date who aren't already dead, but they would all have to end up dead even much loved characters like Romana. A kind of Blakes 7-esque grimness. I think the next batch of New Series Doctor Chronicles will likely include the War Doctor Chronicles with a narrator voicing the War Doctor and I would be fine with that. More controversially I would like to see a younger actor cast as the younger War Doctor whose face we glimpsed at the end of Night of the Doctor. Hurt looked and sounded like a grizzled war veteran but presumably the character didn't always look and sound like that. I would not regard this as a recast in the Bradley/Treloar sense, more akin to Ewan McGregor playing the younger obi wan or De Niro playing a young Vito Corleone, ie a younger actor playing a role that the older actor could not play. However,a decent interval would have to elapse of a couple of years before this step was taken. Then of course there is the possibility of DW versions of classic war sitcoms - Dads Army, Allo Allo.... or maybe not? I have several issues with recasting The War Doctor; Hurt only really featured in one TV story, and 12 audios Big Finish were only able to scratch the surface of what they could have done with the character before Hurt's death, recasting the role with another actor would mean the new actor would likely have more performance time than Hurt and take the character in a different direction arguably staking a claim to being the definite War Doctor...I'm not sure if this would complement or undermine Hurt's limited work on the character, and I'm inclined to think the BBC would vetoe Big Finish doing anything too dark/'un doctorish' with the character anyway. The entire point of the War Doctor was to have a one guest appearance from a fully formed secret 'mayfly' doctor and big name guest actor, doing lots more stories with a new actor early in his life would take away much of the mystery of the conflict/War Doctor, Moffat's admitted The War Doctor was a late in the day replacement idea after Eccleston backed out of the 50th Anniversary special and I'm not so sure The War Doctor's popularity (or not) was more down to the idea of John Hurt playing the character/the concept of a secret regeneration rather than a love of the War Doctor's actual character. It's an intriguing idea, but it feels far too early for Big Finish to even consider it i.m.o, perhaps in a few years once they've done more Time War stories with The 8th Doctor and Gallifrey we will have a fuller picture of how the time war unfolded and BF will be able to assess if there is still a market/nostalgia for The War Doctor. I think the future (or past) of The War Doctor, if it is explored, would best be tackled in short stories, comics or novels. |
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Post by shallacatop on Sept 16, 2017 14:20:54 GMT
Yes, the main attraction to having War Doctor audios was John Hurt. A magnificent actor with the best voice. Take that out of the equation, the horrors of the Time War are best portrayed as descriptive prose or visual comics. On the whole I think Big Finish did well at portraying various aspects of the Time War, though.
Unless they get Gary Oldman on board to play a younger version of the War Doctor, of course.
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Post by eldersensorite on Sept 16, 2017 15:40:50 GMT
Yeah, I have little to no interest in the War Doctor as a character so John Hurt was the main reason I cared.
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Post by barnabaslives on Sept 23, 2017 23:22:28 GMT
In addition to the desperate measures and strange alliances of Gallifrey in the Time War, I think I'd like to know more about the desperate measures and strange alliances of the Daleks in the Time War.
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Post by Bazoolium on Sept 23, 2017 23:29:33 GMT
Yes, the main attraction to having War Doctor audios was John Hurt. A magnificent actor with the best voice. Take that out of the equation, the horrors of the Time War are best portrayed as descriptive prose or visual comics. On the whole I think Big Finish did well at portraying various aspects of the Time War, though. Unless they get Gary Oldman on board to play a younger version of the War Doctor, of course. There's Derek Jacobi's War Master, he has a great voice. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2017 4:04:28 GMT
In addition to the desperate measures and strange alliances of Gallifrey in the Time War, I think I'd like to know more about the desperate measures and strange alliances of the Daleks in the Time War. Well, they do have a penchant for genetic manipulation. Couple that with time travel and the primordial soup of several important worlds are likely to look very different after they've visited... |
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There's an NA that features a character called the Grey Man who is investigating what's going on at Shadowfell. It's never outright stated, but I get the impression from his history (he was banished by his fellows for being too complicated) and general behaviour that he's the Grey Guardian. An embodiment of the intersection that must exist at the border of yin and yang.
