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Post by nucleusofswarm on Sept 24, 2017 1:03:25 GMT
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Post by jasonward on Sept 24, 2017 1:30:57 GMT
Friendship forming is not something parents can regulate, sure they can influence, and they can to a point and depending on age prevent kids from meeting up, but how do you prevent classmates from forming a close bond? Especially if you leave a child with the sense that having a best friend is wrong or bad.
Encouraging children to have a wide range of friends seems like a good thing to me, but to frame that as preventing "best" friends seems perverse.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2017 3:51:55 GMT
That's... really... odd... Particularly the idea to make it school policy, that strikes me as being a bit of dictatorial social control. Dehumanising, almost. Children have a hard enough time as it is without schools determining who they can or cannot be close to during their free time. They're already bullied by the system for not conforming to the curriculum, they don't need this as well. If anything, it would create greater problems down the road in their social development. Punishing children for becoming close friends with others would likely spark some serious mental health issues, particularly in an environment as volatile for them as school.
If I were a parent and that idea of social control were put in place, I'd take my child to another school immediately. It would cease being an environment in which I could trust they would be safe. There, they wouldn't.
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shutupbanks
Castellan
There’s a horror movie called Alien? That’s really offensive. No wonder everyone keeps invading you.
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Post by shutupbanks on Sept 24, 2017 4:05:28 GMT
I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest that this is a problem that might be peculiar to this school and that this is a solution that the principal has come up with to reduce stress amongst the student body. We put bans on things like fidget spinners and drink bottle throwing (I had a month at the end of last year where the two oldest classes in the school were not allowed to bring their drink bottles into my room because I was fed up with them tossing them in the air and making them land upright), swap cards and toys because they are a distraction from the business of teaching. We also don't have school celebrations for Christmas because we have 39 different cultures represented by our student body and if we do one celebration, we have to do them all. So this is probably a school problem as well as a media beatup.
Kids are notoriously clingy about their friends and one of the worst things a child can hear is, "You're not my friend anymore!" It can also lead to cliques developing and bitchy behaviour between kids and bullying because the BFFs can become a power in the play ground and classroom and start being another distraction. It's also detrimental to teaching kids about working in teams and groups if they only ever work with the one person or only want to work with the one person. It's better for them socially to have a wide circle of friends so that they learn adaptability, tolerance and other important social skills.
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Post by Timelord007 on Sept 24, 2017 6:24:46 GMT
Best friend's are those you trust to keep secrets & are there with you through good times & bad, casual friends are those you see from time to time but don't invest in that particular friendship as much.
I had no friends at school because of my bipolar/OCD i was cast out as the school freak & the only thing it taught me was to be accepting of myself, children especially adolescents can be cruel to those who don't conform to a popular group or trend & this leads to bullying, i have never needed the security of friendship as i prefer to keep myself to myself.
I have two cousins who i class as brothers & our bond is stronger than any friendship, but that's just my two cents worth.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2017 2:27:08 GMT
I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest that this is a problem that might be peculiar to this school and that this is a solution that the principal has come up with to reduce stress amongst the student body. We put bans on things like fidget spinners and drink bottle throwing (I had a month at the end of last year where the two oldest classes in the school were not allowed to bring their drink bottles into my room because I was fed up with them tossing them in the air and making them land upright), swap cards and toys because they are a distraction from the business of teaching. We also don't have school celebrations for Christmas because we have 39 different cultures represented by our student body and if we do one celebration, we have to do them all. So this is probably a school problem as well as a media beatup. Kids are notoriously clingy about their friends and one of the worst things a child can hear is, "You're not my friend anymore!" It can also lead to cliques developing and bitchy behaviour between kids and bullying because the BFFs can become a power in the play ground and classroom and start being another distraction. It's also detrimental to teaching kids about working in teams and groups if they only ever work with the one person or only want to work with the one person. It's better for them socially to have a wide circle of friends so that they learn adaptability, tolerance and other important social skills. Mmm, you've definitely got a point. Practices like this tend to vary greatly between institutions. I know one school taught the Olympic Games by actually going out into the field and doing it, while another was doing it as a lecture in the classroom. I can understand the concept from that perspective and encouraging children to seek a wider pool of friends is a good idea, but my own experiences as a student say that the ban just wouldn't work. Let's see if this makes sense... Who does the faculty decide are too close and need to be separated? I'd have thought it be very difficult to adequately police the strength of friendships amongst the students without some kind of profiling or singling out. That kind of approach would start cliquish behaviour amongst the students anyway, just through imitation of the adults. If those separated are particularly close, then it'd be likely too that the children would come to resent those who segregated them during school hours. More than likely, they'd go for the teacher who they believed separated them (unfortunately, because nuance is a 50-50 experience with children), not the administration because that authority figure is closer down to them. That, in and of itself, might create greater behavioural problems, which would lead us back to square one. Another problem is punative punishment. If they decide to ignore it after being told off (as children are wont to do), how are they prevented from not doing it again? Detention seems the most likely. In that scenario, both are likely to be punished and that would lead to a greater sense of connection between the two of them, even if they're isolated to different parts of the building. If only one is punished, then we're back at them resenting whoever is doing the punishing. Get enough best friends separated from one another and you unintentionally get that wider group of friends -- arrayed against the adults who are taking their friends away. That's not even counting the parents that would get involved when their child breaks down in tears saying they can't see their best friend anymore. It can come from a sincere and restorative place, but personally, I think a ban would end up causing a lot more harm than good. It all just seems rather messy. |
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Post by barnabaslives on Sept 25, 2017 5:03:04 GMT
Kids are notoriously clingy about their friends and one of the worst things a child can hear is, "You're not my friend anymore!" It can also lead to cliques developing and bitchy behaviour between kids and bullying because the BFFs can become a power in the play ground and classroom and start being another distraction. It's also detrimental to teaching kids about working in teams and groups if they only ever work with the one person or only want to work with the one person. It's better for them socially to have a wide circle of friends so that they learn adaptability, tolerance and other important social skills. Your sentiments about teachers or schools requiring the ability to ban distractions sound perfectly understandable to me. As for social relations between kids, I may be the further thing from normal enough to serve as any kind of example, but I almost think it would be worse to hear someone in authority say "You can't be best friends anymore" - at least if you've fallen from the graces of a best friend, you can hope to patch things up (sometimes per usual) whereas appealing to authority to change their minds may not always leave as much room for optimism. Myself, I was terribly prone to teasing and I think it was a very important motivator for me to have a best friend as a reason for wanting to show up at school in the first place - also having someone close enough to really care what they think of you seems like a possible good motivator, wanting to study harder so your best friend doesn't think you're dumb, or wanting to behave better so your best friend isn't embarrassed by you. Later on in high school, I think taking a couple of particular classes (algebra and accounting, I think it was) purely so I could have a couple of classes with a close friend in the classroom, probably had some good potential to broaden my horizons. My experience with being exposed to broader social circles might have just sort of rubbed it in a bit that I wasn't terribly popular - I would get paired off with different people for this project or that activity but others were usually visibly not terribly thrilled about it, and I think it always felt awkward and forced probably to all of us. Nothing really clicked and I don't think any friendships ever came of it. I think it was very good that I found any other kids that could feel very close to and learn some of the life lessons and responsibilities that can go with that. Of course, if "best friends" means a pair who spend the whole class lobbing projectiles at one another and seating them on opposite ends of the classroom somehow only makes it worse, I'm sure the need for a conducive study environment for the rest of the class takes precedence. I'm fairly sure if I'd been part of such a pair, one of us would have moved to a different class if it had been required to prevent disruption - and we'd have probably accepted that we'd had it coming, whereas the very idea of a school banning friendships somehow seems harder accept even after I've hopefully matured some. I think I agree with wolfie53, it sounds messy somehow - if not to enforce, at least to define, and maybe also to define just how much jurisdiction the educational system should have into a student's personal life when things are framed that particularly way? |
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shutupbanks
Castellan
There’s a horror movie called Alien? That’s really offensive. No wonder everyone keeps invading you.
Likes: 5,677
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Post by shutupbanks on Sept 25, 2017 5:51:28 GMT
I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest that this is a problem that might be peculiar to this school and that this is a solution that the principal has come up with to reduce stress amongst the student body. We put bans on things like fidget spinners and drink bottle throwing (I had a month at the end of last year where the two oldest classes in the school were not allowed to bring their drink bottles into my room because I was fed up with them tossing them in the air and making them land upright), swap cards and toys because they are a distraction from the business of teaching. We also don't have school celebrations for Christmas because we have 39 different cultures represented by our student body and if we do one celebration, we have to do them all. So this is probably a school problem as well as a media beatup. Kids are notoriously clingy about their friends and one of the worst things a child can hear is, "You're not my friend anymore!" It can also lead to cliques developing and bitchy behaviour between kids and bullying because the BFFs can become a power in the play ground and classroom and start being another distraction. It's also detrimental to teaching kids about working in teams and groups if they only ever work with the one person or only want to work with the one person. It's better for them socially to have a wide circle of friends so that they learn adaptability, tolerance and other important social skills. Mmm, you've definitely got a point. Practices like this tend to vary greatly between institutions. I know one school taught the Olympic Games by actually going out into the field and doing it, while another was doing it as a lecture in the classroom. I can understand the concept from that perspective and encouraging children to seek a wider pool of friends is a good idea, but my own experiences as a student say that the ban just wouldn't work. Let's see if this makes sense... Who does the faculty decide are too close and need to be separated? I'd have thought it be very difficult to adequately police the strength of friendships amongst the students without some kind of profiling or singling out. That kind of approach would start cliquish behaviour amongst the students anyway, just through imitation of the adults. If those separated are particularly close, then it'd be likely too that the children would come to resent those who segregated them during school hours. More than likely, they'd go for the teacher who they believed separated them (unfortunately, because nuance is a 50-50 experience with children), not the administration because that authority figure is closer down to them. That, in and of itself, might create greater behavioural problems, which would lead us back to square one. Another problem is punative punishment. If they decide to ignore it after being told off (as children are wont to do), how are they prevented from not doing it again? Detention seems the most likely. In that scenario, both are likely to be punished and that would lead to a greater sense of connection between the two of them, even if they're isolated to different parts of the building. If only one is punished, then we're back at them resenting whoever is doing the punishing. Get enough best friends separated from one another and you unintentionally get that wider group of friends -- arrayed against the adults who are taking their friends away. That's not even counting the parents that would get involved when their child breaks down in tears saying they can't see their best friend anymore. It can come from a sincere and restorative place, but personally, I think a ban would end up causing a lot more harm than good. It all just seems rather messy. From the article: Ben Thomas, the school’s headmaster, said there was no official policy to that effect but he supported the idea. He said: “There is sound judgment behind it. You can get very possessive friendships, and it is much easier if they share friendships and have a wide range of good friends rather than obsessing too much about who their best friend is. “I would certainly endorse a policy which says we should have lots of good friends, not a best friend. “I would be happy to make it school policy, although it would need to be age-appropriate. “By the time they are 11, 12 or 13 they are making up their own minds. But when they are aged between four and ten, it would be helpful for parents, teachers and children.” Mr Thomas said young girls in particular were prone to forming close-knit friendship “triangles” that often ended with one member of the group feeling excluded and upset. He added: “I think children would be more balanced in their friendships if they all grew up knowing they all need to be friends with each other. “ These obsessive friendships can be very hurtful for those who are left out of them, and ostracising is as painful as physical bullying. “These very obsessive friendships do need intervention and careful management by adults.” (bolding mine) There's no policy at the school for it, but the principal thinks it's a good idea because it can lead to ostracism and exclusion. He also said it would need to be carefully done, which would involve a ton of support from the parent body. Like I said, a beat-up. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2017 6:26:29 GMT
Mmm, you've definitely got a point. Practices like this tend to vary greatly between institutions. I know one school taught the Olympic Games by actually going out into the field and doing it, while another was doing it as a lecture in the classroom. I can understand the concept from that perspective and encouraging children to seek a wider pool of friends is a good idea, but my own experiences as a student say that the ban just wouldn't work. Let's see if this makes sense... Who does the faculty decide are too close and need to be separated? I'd have thought it be very difficult to adequately police the strength of friendships amongst the students without some kind of profiling or singling out. That kind of approach would start cliquish behaviour amongst the students anyway, just through imitation of the adults. If those separated are particularly close, then it'd be likely too that the children would come to resent those who segregated them during school hours. More than likely, they'd go for the teacher who they believed separated them (unfortunately, because nuance is a 50-50 experience with children), not the administration because that authority figure is closer down to them. That, in and of itself, might create greater behavioural problems, which would lead us back to square one. Another problem is punative punishment. If they decide to ignore it after being told off (as children are wont to do), how are they prevented from not doing it again? Detention seems the most likely. In that scenario, both are likely to be punished and that would lead to a greater sense of connection between the two of them, even if they're isolated to different parts of the building. If only one is punished, then we're back at them resenting whoever is doing the punishing. Get enough best friends separated from one another and you unintentionally get that wider group of friends -- arrayed against the adults who are taking their friends away. That's not even counting the parents that would get involved when their child breaks down in tears saying they can't see their best friend anymore. It can come from a sincere and restorative place, but personally, I think a ban would end up causing a lot more harm than good. It all just seems rather messy. From the article: Ben Thomas, the school’s headmaster, said there was no official policy to that effect but he supported the idea. He said: “There is sound judgment behind it. You can get very possessive friendships, and it is much easier if they share friendships and have a wide range of good friends rather than obsessing too much about who their best friend is. “I would certainly endorse a policy which says we should have lots of good friends, not a best friend. “I would be happy to make it school policy, although it would need to be age-appropriate. “By the time they are 11, 12 or 13 they are making up their own minds. But when they are aged between four and ten, it would be helpful for parents, teachers and children.” Mr Thomas said young girls in particular were prone to forming close-knit friendship “triangles” that often ended with one member of the group feeling excluded and upset. He added: “I think children would be more balanced in their friendships if they all grew up knowing they all need to be friends with each other. “ These obsessive friendships can be very hurtful for those who are left out of them, and ostracising is as painful as physical bullying. “These very obsessive friendships do need intervention and careful management by adults.” (bolding mine) There's no policy at the school for it, but the principal thinks it's a good idea because it can lead to ostracism and exclusion. He also said it would need to be carefully done, which would involve a ton of support from the parent body. Like I said, a beat-up. Oh, I know, I know. I was just arguing a hypothetical. Sorry if I gave a different impression.  |
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shutupbanks
Castellan
There’s a horror movie called Alien? That’s really offensive. No wonder everyone keeps invading you.
Likes: 5,677
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Post by shutupbanks on Sept 25, 2017 14:45:08 GMT
From the article: Ben Thomas, the school’s headmaster, said there was no official policy to that effect but he supported the idea. He said: “There is sound judgment behind it. You can get very possessive friendships, and it is much easier if they share friendships and have a wide range of good friends rather than obsessing too much about who their best friend is. “I would certainly endorse a policy which says we should have lots of good friends, not a best friend. “I would be happy to make it school policy, although it would need to be age-appropriate. “By the time they are 11, 12 or 13 they are making up their own minds. But when they are aged between four and ten, it would be helpful for parents, teachers and children.” Mr Thomas said young girls in particular were prone to forming close-knit friendship “triangles” that often ended with one member of the group feeling excluded and upset. He added: “I think children would be more balanced in their friendships if they all grew up knowing they all need to be friends with each other. “ These obsessive friendships can be very hurtful for those who are left out of them, and ostracising is as painful as physical bullying. “These very obsessive friendships do need intervention and careful management by adults.” (bolding mine) There's no policy at the school for it, but the principal thinks it's a good idea because it can lead to ostracism and exclusion. He also said it would need to be carefully done, which would involve a ton of support from the parent body. Like I said, a beat-up. Oh, I know, I know. I was just arguing a hypothetical. Sorry if I gave a different impression. You didn't: I was just cranky at a ridiculous inflation by the paper on an issue that the article even says won't happen. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 26, 2017 0:26:50 GMT
Oh, I know, I know. I was just arguing a hypothetical. Sorry if I gave a different impression. You didn't: I was just cranky at a ridiculous inflation by the paper on an issue that the article even says won't happen. Actually, now that you mention it... *disappointed nickering* It is, isn't it? It's more sensationalism. |
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