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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2018 21:51:12 GMT
Did the BBC mishandle The Twelfth Doctor era?
Much has been made in fandom about the BBC's decision to shift Doctor Who to a later time slot and how series nine was promoted. With the Calpadi era doing incredibly well internationally, does the rating decline lie fully with the BBC? Or were there domestic factors? (I am not from the UK)
I'm tired. Hope this makes sense.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2018 22:07:27 GMT
Did the BBC mishandle The Twelfth Doctor era? No they didn't. The character was just terribly written in his first 2 seasons. They didn't have a clue as to his persona until they finally got rid of Clara & did a refresh in season 3 of 12th Doctor era.
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Post by mark687 on Jan 10, 2018 22:21:17 GMT
Did the BBC mishandle The Twelfth Doctor era? Much has been made in fandom about the BBC's decision to shift Doctor Who to a later time slot and how series nine was promoted. With the Calpadi era doing incredibly well internationally, does the rating decline lie fully with the BBC? Or were there domestic factors? (I am not from the UK) I'm tired. Hope this makes sense. Compared to RTD Era there wasn't a lot of Morning, Lifestyle show Interviews/ Promotion. Trailers were shorter and shown at odd times, Press coverage frequently called plots overly complex and hokey (even the favourable papers), now they might've have been, but if your casual viewer, that's not going to sound as if it would worth your time watching and 2 long gaps between series (incidentally very surprised GOT'S taken the same risk with its final season).
Regards
mark687
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Post by mrperson on Jan 10, 2018 23:02:28 GMT
They need to stop shifting it between spring and fall. 18 month gaps with just the one ep inbetween are no good. Casual viewers may lose interest, and while bigger fans are going to watch anyway, it still sucks for them.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2018 23:25:44 GMT
Did the BBC mishandle The Twelfth Doctor era? Not in any way. They went for a darker, more spiky Doctor and fittingly scheduled his episodes later than the more child-friendly Smith/Tennant era. It could have ushered in a new and unprecedented era of popularity for a new, slightly more adult version of the show. Whilst Doctor Who continued to do fairly well in the ratings, it didn't do 'huge business'. You win some, you lose some. At least they tried something different. Now, with Jodie, they're trying something different again.
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Post by sherlock on Jan 10, 2018 23:41:19 GMT
The inconsistent scheduling certainly didn't help. I'd say publicity at least seems to be less than it used to be as well.
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Post by omega on Jan 11, 2018 0:13:05 GMT
A lot less merchandising as well. 2016, no New Series Adventures novels. 2016 could have been a great time to promote the merchandise, since the only Doctor Who on TV was Return of Doctor Mysterio and Class (which was mishandled for sure). 2009 was a year without a regular season, but still a very rich year for Doctor Who fans. It had two sets of New Series Adventures, The Darksmith Legacy ten part book series and the younger readers stories. This was also when BBC Audio were releasing a lot of readings of the New Series Adventures, and the start of the heyday of the Target readings.
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Post by glutamodo on Jan 11, 2018 3:03:15 GMT
Did the BBC mishandle The Twelfth Doctor era? Not in any way. They went for a darker, more spiky Doctor and fittingly scheduled his episodes later than the more child-friendly Smith/Tennant era. Adding in a lead actor who was a life-long fan of the show... Huge Win, for me. I happened to like rather dark, spiky Docs. (err...olll' Sixie) and I think Capaldi did more than great in that mould. (true, he was let down by a couple of 'orrible scripts, but he still did his stuff well regardless)
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Post by constonks on Jan 11, 2018 4:54:13 GMT
A lot less merchandising as well. 2016, no New Series Adventures novels. 2016 could have been a great time to promote the merchandise, since the only Doctor Who on TV was Return of Doctor Mysterio and Class (which was mishandled for sure). 2009 was a year without a regular season, but still a very rich year for Doctor Who fans. This right here is the reason my kneejerk answer to this question was "Yup."
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Post by Timelord007 on Jan 11, 2018 8:15:52 GMT
Inconsistent scheduling didn't help matters but series 8 was hit & miss & series 9 barring a couple decent episodes was badly written featuring that silly guitar playing nonsense, series 10 was excellent however & I'd have liked another season with the Twelfth Doctor & Bill, i didn't think her story has been fully told.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2018 8:33:11 GMT
A lot less merchandising as well. 2016, no New Series Adventures novels. 2016 could have been a great time to promote the merchandise, since the only Doctor Who on TV was Return of Doctor Mysterio and Class (which was mishandled for sure). 2009 was a year without a regular season, but still a very rich year for Doctor Who fans. It had two sets of New Series Adventures, The Darksmith Legacy ten part book series and the younger readers stories. This was also when BBC Audio were releasing a lot of readings of the New Series Adventures, and the start of the heyday of the Target readings. I'm incredibly bitter about Class. It just seems that the BBC wanted all the noterity of an more realistic-based teenage Doctor Who spin-off without actually wanting to deal with any of the potential reprecussions. I miss those messed up authentic teenagers. (Especially April. The 'Heart' duology says all the right things.) Not seeing those kids confront The Doctor is an incredible bitter bill for me to take and I'm hoping we might at least get a novel one day to wrap up those loose ends. (And Goddamnit, I wanted to see the series take on The Weeping Angels). I wonder if upon hearing Chibnall's pitch and with the Calpadi ratings, the BBC decided to hold back on the other media releases aspect knowing what the response to The Thirteenth Doctor would be?
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Post by Sir Wearer of Hats on Jan 11, 2018 8:33:44 GMT
Capaldi’s first year in “Clara Oswald and her bumbling, rude companion “Doctor somethingorother”was dire. But the second year when he was allowed to be “Doctor Who”? Brilliant. His third year? Sublime.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2018 10:34:35 GMT
Did the BBC mishandle The Twelfth Doctor era? No they didn't. The character was just terribly written in his first 2 seasons. They didn't have a clue as to his persona until they finally got rid of Clara & did a refresh in season 3 of 12th Doctor era. Unfortunate, but true I think. They kind of shot themselves in the foot by having his main character arc be about the ambiguous nature of the character. It's a good aspect to explore, but making it the whole of his character to the point that we were never allowed to get to know him (and had a companion who by the time of Kill the Moon actively loathed him) meant that you had a Doctor that existed primarily as negative space. A not-Eleven, rather than Twelfth Doctor. The series after that had him borrow quite a bit from his predecessor when they tried to soften his character, which didn't help with the nebulous character he'd become. They really nailed it by the third series though, the gap with Mysterio did his persona a lot of good. We got a melding of those two halves, plus an additional bit of depth to really smooth over the cracks. Not quirks, but actual traits. Can't really speak for the BBC more broadly though. Twelve's era does feel a bit more spartan than his predecessors.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2018 17:27:32 GMT
Somewhere between the 50th and Deep Breath, the branding of the show fell off a very steep cliff and has never really recovered. This is evident in less merchandise (with a high amount of it being tat rather than anything someone would want to buy), which has translated into lower awareness of the show from younger viewers.
The dark tone also didn't help, now being justifiably shunted behind Strictly Come Dancing at 8:30 for most of series 8 and 9 and making parents think that their children couldn't watch the show due to its increased scariness.
There was also a sheer drop in quality in the 2014 series from the creative team, who had clearly planned for Matt Smith to stay on for another year and were now on damage control, forcing a whole 13 hours of Trenzalore storyline into one Christmas special and trying to make a stark departure from what came before without really thinking about how, leading to the "am I a good man" nonsense that just came off as awkward more than anything else.
Due to all of these things, by the time series 8 launched in August 2014 (already a long wait since the regeneration), a the audience didn't know what to expect, were offered something that didn't grab them within a few weeks and promptly switched over. This is where the show began shedding its live viewers, no longer being seen as 'event' television. By the time (the vast improvement that was) series 9 came around, the general public had the impression of a lower quality show that was also inappropriate for a family audience. This series then ended in December. This then devalued the importance of the Christmas special, just being seen as another episode with little chance for publicity and rumours to be swirling up interest for it in the upcoming months, as the BBC wouldn't want it to be distracting from the broadcast of their current series.
2016 did help the show creatively, I feel though, making the public actually miss the show somewhat by the time it came back for The Return of Doctor Mysterio, although this effect clearly didn't last either, only serving to preserve the decline in popularity as seen through the similar viewing figures of series 9 and 10.
This decline essentially fed a vicious cycle in which the BBC didn't market the show properly anymore as it knew that it was mainly only the core fanbase who were turning up for it each week. The fans would know when it would be on telly, so why bother, eh?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2018 17:28:21 GMT
That was much more than I'd expected to write...
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Post by themeddlingmonk on Jan 11, 2018 17:35:15 GMT
Moff did it
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Post by muckypup on Jan 11, 2018 17:43:38 GMT
Not sure the just Bbc mishandled it but Moffat along with the Beeb misjudged so much.
Clara should have departed in Capaldi first season Scheduling was rubbish, splitting seasons, moving to the end of summer. Allowing Moffat to continue with Sherlock, at the expense of who. Series complicated long plot arcs The missy is my friend stuff just got excruciating Bills intro video was rushed and gave the wrong impression The reveals within sporting events is just so wrong In fact Capaldi him self was just wrong flip flopping his doctor between 1st, 3rd & 4th with each episode it wasn’t until the end of his 2nd series that we finally got his doctor The 12th audio and book range all but disappeared for his incarnation, with the releases they did have were less than stellar And how can you market a series with toys, games, clothes, etc for kids the put it on at their bedtime.
And the biggest mistake Moffat made, no doubt direct by the Bbc was there was no jeopardy, they always come back to life! Apart from Danny pink and thank the lord he died that whole plot arc was a mistake.
Looking back Capaldi had its moments, but international sales has driven the show, (one reason uk audience is falling) I fear that we are now on that road.
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Post by thethirddoctor on Jan 11, 2018 17:49:43 GMT
I can only think of two times in Moffats era where the BBC mishandled the Show.
1 - When they kept moving the scheduling for series 9, but this was defended by the Producer on Points of View. 2 - Showing the Master in the series 10 trailer.
Series 10 scheduling wasn't too bad. Perhaps, a 15 or 20 minute time difference, when it did happen.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2018 18:47:15 GMT
That first Capaldi episode oh dear. When even the companion is unsure of whether or not she likes Doctor Who how can the audience be on board? & Clara of all people should have easily accepted a new Doctor. & why keep mentioning the fact that he was old? Even 11 turned up to comment on it! Such a bad way to start things off.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2018 20:51:43 GMT
I can only think of two times in Moffats era where the BBC mishandled the Show. 1 - When they kept moving the scheduling for series 9, but this was defended by the Producer on Points of View. Not from the UK, but honestly, that always struck me as a move by the BBC and not Moffatt. Moffatt and Calapadi were pretty adamant we were getting a full series in 2016. You don't come back after two years with declining ratings and NOT tease something big. Love him or hate him, Simm's Master was a HUGE part of Ten's era and his return was always going to grab the attention of the audience.
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