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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2018 8:47:10 GMT
With all the Kandyman discussion in the Eighth Doctor: Ravenous thread, I thought this might be an intresting topic: when have you felt that Doctor Who fandom got it wrong?
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Post by mark687 on Jan 11, 2018 10:29:10 GMT
Its all my personal take :
Responses to Reluctance to a Female Doctor
McCoy and Capaldi are excellent throughout their runs
Rose and Martha (practically Martha) were better than Donna
Matt Smiths 1st Series (apart the Vincent and some of the Angels 2 Parter) was terrible
Regards
mark687
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2018 10:30:00 GMT
With all the Kandyman discussion in the Eighth Doctor: Ravenous thread, I thought this might be an intresting topic: when have you felt that Doctor Who fandom got it wrong? I think it is a mistake to lump 'fandom' together as one big, erm, 'block'. The fans that, back in the 1980s, encouraged JNT to bring back elements from the past (after the success of the The Master's return in Keeper of Traken), and then criticised him for relying too much on the past - I think that mentality gets it wrong constantly, if it isn't too high-handed of me to say so. The 'entitled' vocal minority who demand things, and then criticise, criticise, criticise ... this gang of people are the one and only element of Doctor Who that enrages and frustrates me. Bring back Susan, the Master/Missy should have been The Rani, bring back Captain Jack, get rid of Clara, get rid of Bill, Moffat must go ... one thing I love already about Chris Chibnall is his quote "Doctor Who is not a focus group." Hooray for that! ( "I agree, Doctor Who is not a focus group ... except when it goes against what I want for the show!") The Levine-styled fans who feel they somehow own the show get it wrong, in my view, constantly and really are best ignored. Tht's my rant of the day!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2018 10:35:53 GMT
When did fandom get it wrong?
What an odd question?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2018 10:48:55 GMT
When did fandom get it wrong? What an odd question? Seems okay to me. John, it doesn't really matter to me that much one way or another, but hey, maybe lighten up a little?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2018 10:57:25 GMT
When did fandom get it wrong? What an odd question? Seems okay to me. John, it doesn't really matter to me that much one way or another, but hey, maybe lighten up a little? Eh? thanks but i don't need 2 lighten up, was just curious about this topic seems strange one. have gr8 day x
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2018 12:05:25 GMT
With all the Kandyman discussion in the Eighth Doctor: Ravenous thread, I thought this might be an intresting topic: when have you felt that Doctor Who fandom got it wrong? There is no right and wrong in fandom, just people with different opinions... some of which are a bit extreme at times granted, but it's still just an opinion at the end of the day.
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Post by newt5996 on Jan 11, 2018 16:30:10 GMT
With all the Kandyman discussion in the Eighth Doctor: Ravenous thread, I thought this might be an intresting topic: when have you felt that Doctor Who fandom got it wrong? There is no right and wrong in fandom, just people with different opinions... some of which are a bit extreme at times granted, but it's still just an opinion at the end of the day. This. I mean I'm a fan who adores Sylvester McCoy, the New Adventures, Big Finish, and Classic Who in general with my least favorite Doctor being 'fan favorite' David Tennant. I'm extremely critical of the show because I want to see some of the objectively bad aspects of certain stories to improve (hi random mentions of Bill being a lesbian ham-fisted into several episodes). Yet the guy who got me into Doctor Who's favorite Doctor is Tom Baker, only watches the TV show, and adores almost every aspect of it so there's not a consistency in fandom of what people like/don't like.
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Post by charlesuirdhein on Jan 11, 2018 16:43:04 GMT
For me? When the New Adventures wandered so far up itself trying to be "challenging" and "adult" and a certain section lapped it up and demanded more.
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Post by mark687 on Jan 11, 2018 16:49:02 GMT
For me? When the New Adventures wandered so far up itself trying to be "challenging" and "adult" and a certain section lapped it up and demanded more. I find it fascinating that the Editorial guidelines for them seemed to actually be "Sex and Drugs the more the merrier".
Regards
mark687
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Post by mrperson on Jan 11, 2018 22:57:33 GMT
For me? When the New Adventures wandered so far up itself trying to be "challenging" and "adult" and a certain section lapped it up and demanded more. I find it fascinating that the Editorial guidelines for them seemed to actually be "Sex and Drugs the more the merrier".
Regards
mark687
Rock n' Roll?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2018 0:02:14 GMT
In my personal opinion, The Sixth Doctor, who continues to this day to be somewhat of a whipping boy to many non-BF listeners. To a slightly lesser extent, just because they were never treated anywhere near as poorly, McCoy and McGann as well And I'd also say the turn against Pertwee and his era from some quarters in recent years, and the same that happened to Hartnell before him.
Splendid chaps, all of them.
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Post by Audio Watchdog on Jan 12, 2018 0:25:37 GMT
I think most fandom goes wrong when they begin to feel entitled to being treated or catered to in a certain way. The only thing any creative team owes anyone is to produce the best and most engaging material they can.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2018 0:33:44 GMT
And I'd also say the turn against Pertwee and his era from some quarters in recent years, and the same that happened to Hartnell before him. It's more what you grew up with I suspect. If the Seventh Doctor was your era of Doctor Who you'd remember those stories more fondly - regardless of what others say - than Doctor Who stories from 1963 or 1973; which might seem a bit crusty to the Ace wielding a baseball bat generation, especially the b/w episodes. Whereas the children of the Jon Pertwee/Uncle Tom era of Doctor Who often look at it the other way round, we remember the 1970's very fondly and generally consider the Colin Baker era to be the beginning of the end... and after that came spoon playing and cancellation! So we might not see those times as favorably as the people who grew up on Doctor Who during that era. It's all subjective.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2018 1:37:25 GMT
Er, I am of the Jon Pertwee/Tom Baker era... That said, of course such things are, quite often, generational, I agree, but I still think Colin Baker especially gets hit with a lot more grief than any of the others, and certainly far, far more than he ever deserves to, regardless of one's personal feelings towards his, or the extended JNT, eras of the show.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2018 2:32:19 GMT
Er, I am of the Jon Pertwee/Tom Baker era... That said, of course such things are, quite often, generational, I agree, but I still think Colin Baker especially gets hit with a lot more grief than any of the others, and certainly far, far more than he ever deserves to, regardless of one's personal feelings towards his, or the extended JNT, eras of the show. I'm in the very strange position of having grown up with almost all the Doctors sequentially, so I got baseball bats and Aztecs both. When asked which Doctors are my least favourite (never hated, all of our Doctors are wonderful): the knee-jerk response is the Second and Fifth Doctors. The archive gap meant I dropped off the show until The Mind of Evil(ish), so I don't have the nostalgia glasses for that period in the same way other people do. My only Pat Troughton story from that initial period might've been The War Games actually... The same is true of Five, I got winded during the Graham Williams era and just dropped off. My child mind saw an episode of Terminus and thought it really sterile, so I didn't hop back on until Vengeance on Varos. Which leads to Sixie and his era, where the single most redeeming feature whatever the story is Colin Baker. He's always putting in 160% whether it's Varos or Timelash. Of all the Doctors, he managed to be my favourite because his whole character arc (one of a handful of incarnations to have one) across television, audio, novels, and comics is about growing into oneself and becoming a better person.
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Post by barnabaslives on Jan 12, 2018 5:20:44 GMT
With all the Kandyman discussion in the Eighth Doctor: Ravenous thread, I thought this might be an intresting topic: when have you felt that Doctor Who fandom got it wrong? I'm not quite sure how these two things got connected in one sentence - do you mean you think some of fandom might have got things wrong about Happiness Patrol? That could well be, because I think it may help to understand that it was meant as political commentary, and to understand the implications of that. Some of us in the states at the time might have had little idea it was some kind of comment on existing government somewhere. I always thought it was more like an abstract warning about what could happen anywhere if too much emphasis were placed on happiness at any cost, until reading up on the story behind the story the past few years. On the other hand, I still think the show may have got that one just as wrong as any fans did, for having the villain go so far as doing things that might merit the degree of punitive measures that it maybe couldn't be implied that any real-life persons resembling the characters had coming. (Did I get all of those delicate bits right?) So after all the larger-than-life tyranny, the antagonist pouts and gets a gentle slap on the hand if even that much, which seems like very uncharacteristic behavior on The Doctor's part to be content with that. So things can already seem kind of farcical or a little surreal with Happiness Patrol even without Kandyman, and for the clever stuff involving lemonade I think maybe there was somehow an extremely thin line between absurdly camp and poetic justice? I still think of it as almost as bad as having Bat-Shark-Repellent in the Batcopter (which I'm certain must be camp at some of its most preposterous) for The Doctor to be wielding sugary beverages at something made of candy (I might still be able to accept it as poetic justice if I work hard and retrain myself), so for me there's been this number of things that seemed to be adding up wrong with the particular story, whereas, say, Paradise Towers didn't tip the scales as violently in favor against it even for it also seeming kind of silly in places, and also having what I think was a silly monster. I similarly think Seven also seemed too lenient with Klein, although I can probably paste my head canon up a bit by maybe thinking he's having the odd horrible premonition of the Time War that he's not mentioning to anyone and therefore has far bigger things on his mind in places than personally making sure that a terrible tyrant or even a collaborator in galactic fascism gets every last thing that they might ordinarily be due, (or something like that) even if might ordinarily be irresponsible to give either one the chance to lapse into old ways for the price that others might have to pay for it? Maybe sometimes it's good to remember that we can make our own adjustments like that to certain things we don't like. I probably don't get to complain quite as loudly about Kill The Moon, for example, if I can think of a 15-second scene to add that probably would have turned it into a great Doctor Who story (and I think I actually can, so I hope I'm about done bagging on that story). Likewise there are a couple of scenes from Big Finish audios that I may not allow near my head canon as-is, which really isn't any big deal at all. Amazing track record actually. Dunno, maybe some fans get it wrong for allowing themselves to become too against change in a show that's been all about changes? I know I got one very wrong for worrying so much as I did before the last season that it was going to repeat many of what I thought of as previous mistakes, because some of them almost seemed like they were becoming standards. I still manage some peeves about series 10, but I'm still pleasantly astonished at the number of things that I think were done right for Capaldi's final season. Currently at the top the list of NS episodes I'd like to watch again are all of series 10 and a handful of my favorite stories with the Tenth Doctor.
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Post by J.A. Prentice on Jan 12, 2018 7:20:25 GMT
Er, I am of the Jon Pertwee/Tom Baker era... That said, of course such things are, quite often, generational, I agree, but I still think Colin Baker especially gets hit with a lot more grief than any of the others, and certainly far, far more than he ever deserves to, regardless of one's personal feelings towards his, or the extended JNT, eras of the show. I'm in the very strange position of having grown up with almost all the Doctors sequentially, so I got baseball bats and Aztecs both. When asked which Doctors are my least favourite (never hated, all of our Doctors are wonderful): the knee-jerk response is the Second and Fifth Doctors. The archive gap meant I dropped off the show until The Mind of Evil(ish), so I don't have the nostalgia glasses for that period in the same way other people do. My only Pat Troughton story from that initial period might've been The War Games actually... The same is true of Five, I got winded during the Graham Williams era and just dropped off. My child mind saw an episode of Terminus and thought it really sterile, so I didn't hop back on until Vengeance on Varos. Which leads to Sixie and his era, where the single most redeeming feature whatever the story is Colin Baker. He's always putting in 160% whether it's Varos or Timelash. Of all the Doctors, he managed to be my favourite because his whole character arc (one of a handful of incarnations to have one) across television, audio, novels, and comics is about growing into oneself and becoming a better person. I think I was oddly lucky getting into Doctor Who in 2009, which gave me a sense of detachment from the 10th Doctor since I knew he was on the way out, and watching loads of the new series and classic series very quickly and non-sequentially. It meant I didn't really have a "my Doctor" and ended up enjoying all of them. My favorite actually is McCoy, who regenerated the year after I was born – so certainly not 'my generation.'
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2018 9:50:03 GMT
I'm in the very strange position of having grown up with almost all the Doctors sequentially, so I got baseball bats and Aztecs both. When asked which Doctors are my least favourite (never hated, all of our Doctors are wonderful): the knee-jerk response is the Second and Fifth Doctors. The archive gap meant I dropped off the show until The Mind of Evil(ish), so I don't have the nostalgia glasses for that period in the same way other people do. My only Pat Troughton story from that initial period might've been The War Games actually... The same is true of Five, I got winded during the Graham Williams era and just dropped off. My child mind saw an episode of Terminus and thought it really sterile, so I didn't hop back on until Vengeance on Varos. Which leads to Sixie and his era, where the single most redeeming feature whatever the story is Colin Baker. He's always putting in 160% whether it's Varos or Timelash. Of all the Doctors, he managed to be my favourite because his whole character arc (one of a handful of incarnations to have one) across television, audio, novels, and comics is about growing into oneself and becoming a better person. I think I was oddly lucky getting into Doctor Who in 2009, which gave me a sense of detachment from the 10th Doctor since I knew he was on the way out, and watching loads of the new series and classic series very quickly and non-sequentially. It meant I didn't really have a "my Doctor" and ended up enjoying all of them. My favorite actually is McCoy, who regenerated the year after I was born – so certainly not 'my generation.' I know exactly what you mean. Bill Hartnell managed to be my first Doctor through reruns, but I think the closest thing I got to "my Doctors" (i.e. new incarnations onscreen while I was growing up) were probably the Ninth and Tenth. We were still using VHS tapes on a 4:3 television when they were first broadcasting. It's a weird feeling having more nostalgia for an incarnation fifty years past, instead of one that left only eight years ago. A very weird feeling.
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Post by pawntake on Jan 12, 2018 10:34:26 GMT
With all the Kandyman discussion in the Eighth Doctor: Ravenous thread, I thought this might be an intresting topic: when have you felt that Doctor Who fandom got it wrong? There is no right and wrong in fandom, just people with different opinions... some of which are a bit extreme at times granted, but it's still just an opinion at the end of the day. Absolutely spot on!!!
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