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Post by nucleusofswarm on Jan 13, 2018 1:30:37 GMT
(No, this is not saying that this should be addressed in Series 11, nor arguing this is high on Chib's priority list. This is merely for discussion.)
Among the many things that can be thrown at Hell Bent, one of them is how it was going to be the big reintroduction of the Time Lords into the show and then... did nothing with them, their changed society and only paid lip service to their new relationship with the Doctor.
Moving forward, what could/should be done with the Time Lords?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2018 10:45:23 GMT
My problem with the Time Lords is that the Doctor left Gallifrey initially because he was bored and frustrated by their endless impotent pomp and ceremony. So, whenever the Time Lords are featured on television, they are represented, for the sake of continuity, as boring and dull. This in turn ensures the story in which they are featured is blighted by such traits.
It's a difficult one. A big thing was made of bringing them back, but then to ignore them would seem counter-productive. I would have them only occasionally represented in the show like they were during Genesis of the Daleks or Terror of the Autons - occasional faceless officials in robes, a heightened satire on the 'establishment', of system management 'turned up to 11' occasionally sending The Doctor on missions they are too arrogant to carry out themselves.
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Post by Sir Wearer of Hats on Jan 13, 2018 10:58:04 GMT
Nothing. They’re hiding and the Doctor is pissed off at them *several billions of years worth of torturewill do that*
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2018 11:40:58 GMT
I'd still be very interested in seeing an episode or story arc where the Doctor stumbles on a Gallifrey that's turning back towards its empire building days of yore. My headcanon before Hell Bent was that Gallifrey looked uncomfortably close to Skaro and had become virtually indistinguishable from the Daleks in their ideology. Kinda like the Federation post-Star One, hurting, afraid and really quite terrifying. The Doctor steps in, meddles in things he shouldn't and they don't mince words, they just send an assassination squad after him.
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Post by jasonward on Jan 13, 2018 11:55:55 GMT
I don't think the Timelords need to be tackled, that is until someone has a good story for them, I don't want or think that the Timelords should be shoehorned in somehow.
There are some things I do want to know
1) What is the status of the Timelord society/civilization now? I mean, they are recovering from a devastating war, massive political changes and a social system in disarray. 2) Why hasn't the war restated? The Timelords and Daleks are both back, what is preventing them from going over it all again?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2018 12:23:44 GMT
I don't want to see the Time Lords at all... Doctor Who doesn't need all that Time Lord mumbo jumbo, they are boring. Just give us some exciting adventures with the new Doctor and her companion(s), leave the Gallifrey baggage behind.
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Post by sherlock on Jan 13, 2018 12:41:10 GMT
I hope Chibnall does something different with them beyond the confines of classic series continuity, dare to be bold about the Time Lords. One good thing with Hell Bent is there seemed to be actual change to Time Lord society post-War. Hell Bent starts with Rassilon essentially a military dictator (makes sense in light of the War leaving Gallifrey far more militarised than it ever was in the classic series), he sends a gunship to a defenceless village! It also show that finally the Time Lords have got over their obsession with Rassilon, with the Doctor's arrival being the catalyst for them to finally abandon him. Another major shift of attitudes has been about the Doctor who's gone from being the pariah of Gallifrey to its saviour and also that Gallifrey has gone from splendid isolation from the universe to actively hiding from it. My main gripe with Hell Bent is it then ditched these interesting lines of thought to talk about Clara, but I digress.
So more along that line of thought, how has Gallifrey changed post-War, would be nice. Realistically I expect if Chibnall wants to bring the Time Lords into a story it'll be more Genesis of the Daleks or Terror of the Autons style, which could work just as well in giving a glimpse into what the Time Lords are like in modern Who.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2018 13:11:04 GMT
Nothing. I find stories that focus on Time Lords & their society extremely boring, hence why I don't like Big Finish's Gallifrey series.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2018 13:20:03 GMT
2) Why hasn't the war restated? The Timelords and Daleks are both back, what is preventing them from going over it all again? Actually that might be the only thing that could be an interesting story arc. The possibility of a 2nd Time War & what The Doctor (& the rest of the universe) would do to prevent that.
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Post by sherlock on Jan 13, 2018 13:47:13 GMT
2) Why hasn't the war restated? The Timelords and Daleks are both back, what is preventing them from going over it all again? Think it's simply a case that the Time Lords are essentially in hiding so the Daleks just don't know they're back.
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Post by mrperson on Jan 13, 2018 17:29:12 GMT
2) Why hasn't the war restated? The Timelords and Daleks are both back, what is preventing them from going over it all again? Think it's simply a case that the Time Lords are essentially in hiding so the Daleks just don't know they're back. Both species fought a war across all of time and space, but now the Daleks just cannot find them? That never made any sense to me.
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Post by sherlock on Jan 13, 2018 17:34:39 GMT
Think it's simply a case that the Time Lords are essentially in hiding so the Daleks just don't know they're back. Both species fought a war across all of time and space, but now the Daleks just cannot find them? That never made any sense to me. The Daleks have no reason to be looking, there's possibly no way they know the Time Lords survived at all. The only Time Lords they've encountered is the Doctor and Missy. The Doctor confessed to Davros that Gallifrey survived but doesn't give the slightest hint of how and where it did and the destruction of the Dalek City probably prevented Davros passing on that information.
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Post by charlesuirdhein on Jan 13, 2018 17:45:28 GMT
Glue them to plates like dead mice.
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Post by dalekbuster523finish on Jan 13, 2018 18:50:04 GMT
I think they should be reintroduced as an ally of the Doctor's rather than an enemy. The new series has done the 'Evil Time Lords' angle too often now, and it would therefore be refreshing to see them shown in a more positive light.
Some stories where they send the Doctor on missions like in the classic series would be nice.
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Post by J.A. Prentice on Jan 13, 2018 23:18:54 GMT
2) Why hasn't the war restated? The Timelords and Daleks are both back, what is preventing them from going over it all again? Think it's simply a case that the Time Lords are essentially in hiding so the Daleks just don't know they're back. I believe that the Daleks and Time Lords who made it out are just a shadow of what they were in the War. There's no way the Daleks we've seen since then are powerful enough to wage a war that threatens the very fabric of the universe and the Time Lords are reduced to hiding at the very end of time, hoping nobody finds them. But once they've rebuilt... Then the universe will be in trouble. As to what Chibnall should do – Time Lords slowly reasserting themselves could be interesting. I'd only want to see him use them if he can do something interesting with them, though. He shouldn't feel obligated to use them just because they're back.
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Post by Audio Watchdog on Jan 14, 2018 0:40:13 GMT
I’m very much in the if-you-have-good-story-then-go-for-it camp. Otherwise, why bother?
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Post by constonks on Jan 14, 2018 1:05:09 GMT
I think they should be reintroduced as an ally of the Doctor's rather than an enemy. The new series has done the 'Evil Time Lords' angle too often now, and it would therefore be refreshing to see them shown in a more positive light. Some stories where they send the Doctor on missions like in the classic series would be nice. I think that would make some sense - they're hiding at the end of time but they're still the same pompous self-important know-it-alls they've always been. So while I'm sure they're dying to interfere and manage the cosmos again, they'd need an agent to do that...
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Post by mrperson on Jan 14, 2018 4:08:21 GMT
Both species fought a war across all of time and space, but now the Daleks just cannot find them? That never made any sense to me. The Daleks have no reason to be looking, there's possibly no way they know the Time Lords survived at all. The only Time Lords they've encountered is the Doctor and Missy. The Doctor confessed to Davros that Gallifrey survived but doesn't give the slightest hint of how and where it did and the destruction of the Dalek City probably prevented Davros passing on that information. They each found and fought each other across all of space and time. Each has every reason to look for the other, especially when each knows that >1 of the other survived. It doesn't work for me.
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Post by dalekbuster523finish on Jan 14, 2018 9:44:36 GMT
I think they should be reintroduced as an ally of the Doctor's rather than an enemy. The new series has done the 'Evil Time Lords' angle too often now, and it would therefore be refreshing to see them shown in a more positive light. Some stories where they send the Doctor on missions like in the classic series would be nice. I think that would make some sense - they're hiding at the end of time but they're still the same pompous self-important know-it-alls they've always been. So while I'm sure they're dying to interfere and manage the cosmos again, they'd need an agent to do that... Ollistra would be a great character to bring across from Big Finish to do that. I don't think it would be too hard to introduce her in a way that doesn't require you to have listened to Big Finish.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2018 10:14:52 GMT
My guess? The Doctor stirred up quite a revolution in Hell Bent - and I think we'll find The General and other figures who served the High Council during the Time War (along with a few uncorruptable Time Lords) using The Doctor as a silent figurehead after disposing of the High Council and trying to bring order to a chaotic Galifery . I think we'll get a polite, but firm to The Doctor: "Buzz off, we don't need you" which will add a dampener to the new Doctor's optimism and we'll be left wondering if the new High Council will become as corrupt as the old....
I agree that the Time Lords are best used sparingly, though and the less we know the better. I don't think you can really do much with them anyway rather then a contrast to The Doctor's morality because that's not the show. There best left as part of the Who.
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