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Post by omega on Feb 18, 2018 9:41:47 GMT
It's hard to believe the MCU is nearly turning ten, and we've just gotten the 18th cinematic installment (not counting the six other films that are in development, pre-production or post-production). What did you guys think of this one?
My favorite bit was the brother-sister relationship between T'Challa and Shuri. There's a respect for each other in their, but not afraid to poke fun and it doesn't descend into antagonism at all. It wasn't a grandiose antagonism like Thor and Loki, it was down to earth, which reflected well upon the film.
Another aspect I liked was how it wasn't out and out wacky and comedic. Last year we had Spider-Man Homecoming, Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2 and Thor Ragnarok, all featuring crazy plots led by wisecracking characters designed to get us to laugh. Black Panther doesn't have any overt comic relief, the humour coming in one-off moments that come and go in a few seconds (Shuri flicking the bird at T'Challa and getting told off by their mother, or Shuri falling to the floor when the car simulator ends unexpectedly).
The third act was a nice change from MCU standard. There was hardly any destruction expect for the cargo ships and Shuri's lab. I was at least expecting the mine entrance to be blown up.
Killmonger was a weak link. I felt his background could have been fleshed out. Maybe the culture differences between growing up in Oakland and T'Challa's upbringing in Wakanda. The scars on his body could have been some kind of pain he feels as consequence for the life taken each one represents.
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Post by ollychops on Feb 18, 2018 15:21:07 GMT
I really enjoyed it, the only problem I had with it was that it felt like parts of the plot were somewhat similar to Thor: Ragnarok - family member taking over as ruler. Of course, both films have completely different tones to them, Thor was hilarious and wacky while this was far more serious, aside from a couple of comic relief moments here and there.
I actually thought Killmonger was a pretty good villain, because I actually felt some sympathy towards him and I could see where he was coming from - though, he was going about things the wrong way. I do wish we'd seen more of him earlier on in the film, rather than focusing too much on Klaue. But, yeah, I thought Killmonger was one of the better MCU movie villains, just because his reasoning for what he was doing was relatable.
I think Shuri might be my new favourite MCU character. Hopefully we see more of her.
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Post by whiskeybrewer on Feb 19, 2018 12:24:42 GMT
Definitely one of the best Marvel movies. Great world building for Wakanda
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Post by theotherjosh on Feb 19, 2018 20:01:34 GMT
We open right away with some “Daddy, tell me our origin story” exposition, which is fine. We’re well into our second decade of superhero movies as their own genre and we know the template by now. I’m fine with a Doomed Planet/Desperate Scientist/Last Hope/Kindly Couple expository infodump at the beginning of any such movie from now until the end of time.
I liked the prologue in 1992 Los Angeles quite a bit. Superhero movies tend to be loud and on-the-nose at their worst, but when the warriors arrive and N'Jobu says to open the door for the “Grace Jones” women because “they won’t knock again”, it was a nice understated declaration of who these women are.
T’Chaka was in a situation with no good options. He probably didn’t make the best choice, but whether you complete the sentence that starts with, “Hey kid, we killed your father and” with
“we’re leaving you here” or “we’re taking you away from everything you’ve ever known and you’re going to be raised by your father’s murderer.”
He’s certainly going to grow up resenting you. It’s like a no-win choice from a Telltale game.
Nakia: Lupita Nyong'o’s Nakia didn’t have a whole lot to do and she wasn’t strictly necessary to the plot, but I did like how she responded in her introduction. When T’Challa is retrieving her from the Boko Haram convoy and he tells her that he wants her back for the coronation, an entire world of emotions flows across her face. Then she replies that she will come back. There is a maturity there. This is her duty and she will discharge it faithfully with none of the oppositional defiant disorder that plagues super-hero movies.
Shuri: Letitia Wright was the best part of the movie as T’Challa’s sister Shuri. We totally need a sequel with the same cast but focus on her. I had guessed that she was in her early twenties, but the character is supposed to be sixteen, which is a pretty large gap between the two siblings. She was a fun character to watch and the fact that she’s an almost unique role-model for African-American girls is almost incidental.
M’Baka was an interesting character. I liked him in the beginning as a bit of a devil’s advocate. I believe that authority should be questioned and M’Baka serves this role when he challenges T’Challa. My read was that he didn’t necessarily want to be king himself, but he wanted to make sure that T’Challa was the best qualified person for the job. He didn’t want to rubber stamp the coronation.
(Also, during that fight I really loved it when T’Challa’s mom shouted, “Show him who you are!” to inspire her son. I appreciate the kind of quiet confidence.)
I also appreciated his question when T’Challa’s mom asks him to avenge her son’s murder later on in the movie and when he’s assured that the odds were fair, replies with something like, “Sounds like it was more a defeat than a murder.”
(Apparently the character also goes by “Man-Ape” in the comics. They didn’t use that for the movie because it’s obviously tremendously super-racist.)
If you’ll excuse the digression for a moment, when I was watching Broadchurch with my wife she thought that the Scottish detective really looked like David Tennant, but assumed that he wasn’t, because I surely would have said something if he was. But all through the first episode, until she saw his name in the end credits, she assumed he was another actor who bore a startling resemblance and she was continuously distracted by that. (In my defense, what was I going to say? “Hey, it’s David Tennant!”?)
I finally got to experience what it’s like being on the other side of the question. Every time W'Kabi was on screen I was asking myself, “Is that Chris from Get Out or just somebody who looks like him?” (Spoilers: It is Daniel Kaluuya who played Chris, so point for Josh)
I think he was one of the few weak points in the narrative. Ulysses Klaw killed his parents and he makes T’Challa promise to kill him or bring him in for trial. Klaw is captured, but escapes and W'Kabi is so angry with T’Challa that he is instrumental in the coup that overthrows him. But cut the dude some slack. I’m not completely sure of the time frame, but he’s been king for less than a week, possibly for as little as a day. T’Challa has shown the intent to capture Klaw; he just hasn’t managed to do it yet in the extremely brief span of time that has elapsed.
Speaking of Klaw. Or Klaue, if you must. He was entertaining for the brief time he got. Manic, but not “This is one doodle that can't be un-did, Homeskillet” level of obnoxious quirkiness. I was expecting to be annoyed by Martin Freeman, but I did like their exchange in the casino when Klaue offers a link to his mixtape and Martin’s Agent Ross deadpans, “Please don’t make me listen to your music.”
Roth must be the worst intelligence operative in the world, because he admits that he worked to cover up T’Challa’s involvement in Civil War, but never seemed to wonder where the Black Panther Iron Man level super-suit came from. I can understand his willingness to help cover it up as part of some quid pro quo, but he never even seemed to ask the questions that would lead him to wonder why the leader of an apparently impoverished country had such a tool.
Michael B. Jordan is always great in everything he does. He continues the Chris Evans route of going from Johnny Storm to someone else in the Marvel Universe. His plot seemed to hinge on a number of unlikely events all coming to pass exactly as planned(meeting W'Kabi perhaps the only person who is sympathetic and in a position to help, being given a forum to plead his case and issue his challenge, T’Challa accepting the challenge and losing it) , which isn’t unusual for a super-hero movie, but I feel that Black Panther could have done better in this regard, since it was a cut above in almost every respect.
Perhaps I missed something, but are people allowed to challenge the king whenever they feel like it? I figured it was a “speak now or forever hold your peace” type deal and he wasn’t there. Sorry, you missed open enrollment in the regicide Olympics. Try again next year
Maybe he got special dispensation because he was of royal blood? It seems like it’s a pretty dumb system of government if anyone can challenge the king at any time.
Those are trivial complaints, though. He was a great villain with an understandable goal. Jordan oozes charisma and he owns this role. A common criticism of Marvel’s movie villains is that they come across as flat in their motivations, but both Killmonger and his father had goals and values that would be laudable under other circumstances.
I loved the world building that went into the movie. I don’t have the background to appreciate it beyond an extremely superficial level, but I love the thought that went into the choices for the clothing and languages and customs of the tribes.
I’ll end with a comment on representation. I’m a straight middle-class cis-gendered white American male. To a first order approximation, everyone I grew up watching on TV looked like me. I’m sure the movie-makers faced pressure to make the movie less Afro-centric and I’m glad they stuck to their vision, because it is those elements that make this movie as enduring as I know it will be.
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Post by Audio Watchdog on Feb 19, 2018 20:50:40 GMT
Not my favorite MCU movie but in the top three or four but culturally it is easily the most important movie Marvel will probably ever make.
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Post by Timelord007 on Feb 20, 2018 8:07:36 GMT
One of Marvels best, superb action scenes, brilliant story, great character arcs, depth, emotional & excellent performances from the cast gets a 9/10 from me.
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Post by whiskeybrewer on Feb 20, 2018 11:44:06 GMT
"Delete That Video"
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Post by omega on Feb 20, 2018 20:11:58 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2018 4:36:02 GMT
Just saw it today. In a word, brilliant. Everything I wanted to see when I first saw the character in Civil War. I really enjoyed it. I went to see it with a friend of mine who's an only child. When we got to the lab, he leaned across to me and said questioningly: "Siblings don't act like this...?" The moment she decided to test run her "experiment", I was picturing my own sister and said deadpan:
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Post by whiskeybrewer on Feb 27, 2018 14:32:55 GMT
Bring on Namor for Number 2
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2018 23:43:01 GMT
I can't wait for Shuri and Peter to meet
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Post by fingersmash on Feb 28, 2018 3:40:41 GMT
I can't wait for Shuri and Peter to meet I can't wait for Shuri and Tony to meet.
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Post by Tim Bradley on Feb 28, 2018 7:44:03 GMT
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Post by Hieronymus on Feb 28, 2018 23:10:17 GMT
The pre-credits sequence is good. I can't wait for this to come out on video so I can watch it.
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Post by Whovitt on Mar 3, 2018 5:57:59 GMT
Oh, seems I'm a bit of a minority opinion (but that's hardly new...). I thought the first half was great, right up until Killmonger arrived with the body of Klaue (as in really great - the whole James Bond-esque thing was the most fun I've had with a movie in ages). At that point the movie went trope for cliche trope every average political upheaval story there is. The overall outcome was dead obvious and there weren't even any casualties in the final confrontation (which, while well executed, felt a little bit like a discount Battle of Five Armies type affair). I will say I loved the battle rhinos though! So yeah, the first half scored some really high points, but the second half drags it down badly. I imagine that many disagree, and feel free to do so, but I don't have the energy to go into some kind of debate about it Overall, I liked the movie, but I feel it could have been better.
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