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Post by theotherjosh on Feb 19, 2018 21:33:41 GMT
Our next-door neighbors are slowly becoming enthusiasts of the program and they just watched the Wedding of River Song. They asked me who the Brig was, because he had been mentioned in the story.
I gave a brief summary of his relationship with the Doctor and concluded with, "I consider him a companion, but [mutual friend] does not."
It's worth noting that Big Finish does not either. He's classed as a returning character, like Klein.
Where does the board come down on the issues of companions? Sarah Jane, for instance, was a proper companion, but what about Sara Kingdom? Katarina?
If the Brigadier wasn't a companion, then is Liz Shaw? Are Benton or Yates?
A friend says that she doesn't consider Jack Harkness a companion. I don't agree with her, but I do think their relationship has a different feel to it than most.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2018 23:10:44 GMT
Has appeared in at least two consecutive stories with TARDIS travel involved in between.
So while I guess I would not class the Brig as a companion, he deserves a much higher role credit than "returning character."
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2018 23:29:39 GMT
Do people think that some want to classify the Brig et. al. as companions because non-companions are considered "lesser"? Because we don't use a credit between "recurring character" and "companion"?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2018 0:15:26 GMT
Do people think that some want to classify the Brig et. al. as companions because non-companions are considered "lesser"? Because we don't use a credit between "recurring character" and "companion"? It's likely just a convenience thing. "Companion" has fewer syllables than "recurring character". They're certainly difficult to define outside of personal preference. Richard Mace has all the makings of a companion, but never appeared outside The Visitation. Lieutenant Scott and his marines travelled aboard the TARDIS in Earthshock, but are still largely considered part of the guest cast *. If we go wa~ay back to An Unearthly Child, the qualification of companion doesn't even mean you're invited aboard the TARDIS; Ian and Barbara forced their way in to check on Susan. A companion isn't even necessarily working unambiguously in the Doctor's interests, Turlough and Sara have both tried to kill him on their own volition. Based on personal preference... It's really difficult to say. I really enjoy Professor Travers and D.I. Menzies as characters, for instance, but I don't consider them companions, per se... Klein feels like a companion to me, she fits that same niche that Turlough or Sara do. The Brigadier wins out with his longevity and solo appearances without UNIT, I think. * - That said, I do think there's a story we're missing out on between Earthshock and Time-Flight with that off-hand line from Nyssa: "Cyberfleet dispersed."
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Post by themeddlingmonk on Feb 20, 2018 0:48:53 GMT
I consider the UNIT team companions purely because the format of the show was different during those years, so while they aren’t companions in the usual sense, I’d call it more of an honourary thing. Same with Katarina, only she is because she was actually supposed to be a proper companion before she was screwed over and killed.
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Post by number13 on Feb 20, 2018 1:57:42 GMT
In classic-era terms I'd define a true Companion as a leading character for whom their proper place is: with the Doctor (at least until he gets them home, in the early days.) They often become separated by the plot, but a real Companion will usually begin and always end each story with the Doctor; they belong together until they finally separate. Sara Kingdom isn't a Companion (on TV) because although the storyline throws them together, she is there on her own mission and would have left once it was accomplished, ready to take on her next mission. And goodness knows where Katarina thought she was or what she thought she was doing. The Brigadier isn't a Companion, he's a very special case - the Doctor's independent equal in the UNIT power structure and in the plot. Neither takes orders from the other (although both sometimes try to give them!) but each will follow the other's lead when the other really needs his help. The Doctor and the Brig. are friends. The closest the new series has ever got to this is Captain Jack, but he's such a loose cannon it's hard to know how to define him! (" He's not a Companion, he's a very naughty boy!" )
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Post by shutupbanks on Feb 20, 2018 9:44:54 GMT
I'd call Jo a companion, as she traveled with the Doctor, but the Brig, Benton, Yates and - controversially, I think - Liz were more like colleagues in a chain of command: their day job was to have adventures with the Doctor.
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Post by barnabaslives on Feb 20, 2018 11:04:05 GMT
I consider the UNIT team companions purely because the format of the show was different during those years, so while they aren’t companions in the usual sense, I’d call it more of an honourary thing. Yeah, the first thing that came to my mind for companion qualifications is travelling with The Doctor in the TARDIS, but if the Doctor isn't travelling that hardly seems fair. Let's see here... um, if you're in a Companion Chronicle, you're a companion, how about that? :-) The Brigadier isn't a Companion, he's a very special case - the Doctor's independent equal in the UNIT power structure and in the plot. Neither takes orders from the other (although both sometimes try to give them!) but each will follow the other's lead when the other really needs his help. The Doctor and the Brig. are friends. ^This. I very much think the Brig is in a special class by himself and I doubt there's any better way to put it than you did right there. The closest the new series has ever got to this is Captain Jack, but he's such a loose cannon it's hard to know how to define him! (" He's not a Companion, he's a very naughty boy!" ) LOL! Do I remember right that somewhere during one of The Doctor's meetings with Jack - most likely a later one? - there was allusion to them having other adventures together? (I really need to watch those again obviously). That would probably fully qualify Jack as companion in my book.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2018 1:46:33 GMT
The closest the new series has ever got to this is Captain Jack, but he's such a loose cannon it's hard to know how to define him! (" He's not a Companion, he's a very naughty boy!" ) LOL! Do I remember right that somewhere during one of The Doctor's meetings with Jack - most likely a later one? - there was allusion to them having other adventures together? (I really need to watch those again obviously). That would probably fully qualify Jack as companion in my book. The memory cheats, but I think Boom Town and Bad Wolf both allude to a couple other stories in that gap. I remember that everyone wasn't snatched away from Cardiff or Raxacoricofallapatorius, it was somewhere else. My brain wants to say, Japan?
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Post by themeddlingmonk on Feb 21, 2018 7:40:20 GMT
LOL! Do I remember right that somewhere during one of The Doctor's meetings with Jack - most likely a later one? - there was allusion to them having other adventures together? (I really need to watch those again obviously). That would probably fully qualify Jack as companion in my book. The memory cheats, but I think Boom Town and Bad Wolf both allude to a couple other stories in that gap. I remember that everyone wasn't snatched away from Cardiff or Raxacoricofallapatorius, it was somewhere else. My brain wants to say, Japan? Yeah it’s something like that. They definitely travelled together long-term. He was in three of the tie-in novels that came out at the time too and is in the Titan Comics for the Ninth Doctor. I would definitely consider him a companion, but more in the way Sara Kingdom is, because his role as a companion became more prevalent in Expanded Media.
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Post by Jeedai on Feb 21, 2018 8:22:56 GMT
The Brig is not a companion. The Doctor is the Brigadier's companion. At least during his exile. Three checks a lot of boxes...
He got dropped onto the Brig's turf by a higher power (ala Romana and Lucie). He joined the Brig's crew after having already having an adventure with him (ala Flip and Donna). And traveled with the Brig on multiple adventures at different locations... on Earth (ala Liz and Jo, and pretty much everyone else)
Drifting away from Three, after their parting they repeatedly bumped into each other for even more adventures (ala Sarah Jane and Benny, some others)
If I were to stretch this thought out to character interaction...
He behaved condescendingly towards the Brig regarding his own intellect (ala Adric) He was often diametrically opposed to the Brig's preferred way of solving problems (ala Leela) And he constantly whined about wanting to be somewhere else (ala Tegan).
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Post by dalektimecontroller on Feb 21, 2018 10:13:36 GMT
To me there is no distinction, they're all just supporting characters. Call them what you like, but to me, Liz, the Brig, Benton, Yates, Wilf, etc. were all friends of the Doctor and assisted him in his exploits as much as Sarah Jane, Ace, Jamie and Bill did, so that's good enough for me.
In terms of where Big Finish, the BBC, etc. draw the line, I have absolutely no idea and would say it varies arbitrarily depending on the author, publisher, year, etc.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2018 10:21:39 GMT
To me there is no distinction, they're all just supporting characters. Call them what you like, but to me, Liz, the Brig, Benton, Yates, Wilf, etc. were all friends of the Doctor and assisted him in his exploits as much as Sarah Jane, Ace, Jamie and Bill did, so that's good enough for me. In terms of where Big Finish, the BBC, etc. draw the line, I have absolutely no idea and would say it varies arbitrarily depending on the author, publisher, year, etc. I'm on the same lines - it doesn't really matter. I guess the best way to determine is "Who did the BBC employ to be The Doctor's assistant(s) for that year?" as criteria like "Have been invited to travel in the TARDIS" would eliminate Liz Shaw but include Frank Skinner.
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Post by Jeedai on Feb 21, 2018 18:56:39 GMT
Has appeared in at least two consecutive stories with TARDIS travel involved in between. Under this definition of companion, does Missy qualify?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2018 9:06:43 GMT
Has appeared in at least two consecutive stories with TARDIS travel involved in between. Under this definition of companion, does Missy qualify? Huh... Yeah. Yeah, she would definitely qualify. Empress of Mars and World Enough and Time. Similarly, Adam would, but not Grace or Lee. It's all very nebulous. Grace in the DWM comics is kind of set her up as a Brigader-like friend to Eight. She's working by proxy for MI6 last time we see her outside a cameo, dealing with the aftermath of what happened in San Francisco.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2018 11:09:18 GMT
Under this definition of companion, does Missy qualify? Huh... Yeah. Yeah, she would definitely qualify. Empress of Mars and World Enough and Time. Similarly, Adam would, but not Grace or Lee. It's all very nebulous. Grace in the DWM comics is kind of set her up as a Brigader-like friend to Eight. She's working by proxy for MI6 last time we see her outside a cameo, dealing with the aftermath of what happened in San Francisco. I'll reword the second half of my definition to make my intention clearer: "Has appeared in at least two consecutive stories where they and the Doctor traveled, together, by TARDIS in between." [Not sure if that makes a difference.] It was my intention to include Adam. But this definition does not take Series 10 into account. I haven't seen most of it. (I have seen Pilot, Thin Ice, Oxygen, Extremis and the two-part finale.*) Can you give me a run-down of Missy and the Doctor's continuity throughout? Up 'till now I have been assuming that consecutive stories from the Series' perspective and the Doctor's perspective have been pretty well the same. I guess not so much which Series 10, which will muddle with my definition. *I just didn't want to deal with another Moffat season.
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Post by themeddlingmonk on Feb 23, 2018 14:14:29 GMT
Huh... Yeah. Yeah, she would definitely qualify. Empress of Mars and World Enough and Time. Similarly, Adam would, but not Grace or Lee. It's all very nebulous. Grace in the DWM comics is kind of set her up as a Brigader-like friend to Eight. She's working by proxy for MI6 last time we see her outside a cameo, dealing with the aftermath of what happened in San Francisco. I'll reword the second half of my definition to make my intention clearer: "Has appeared in at least two consecutive stories where they and the Doctor traveled, together, by TARDIS in between." [Not sure if that makes a difference.] It was my intention to include Adam. But this definition does not take Series 10 into account. I haven't seen most of it. (I have seen Pilot, Thin Ice, Oxygen, Extremis and the two-part finale.*) Can you give me a run-down of Missy and the Doctor's continuity throughout? Up 'till now I have been assuming that consecutive stories from the Series' perspective and the Doctor's perspective have been pretty well the same. I guess not so much which Series 10, which will muddle with my definition. *I just didn't want to deal with another Moffat season. She makes a cameo within the Vault in Lie of the Land, when the Tardis team ask her advice on defeating the Monks. In Empress of Mars, the Tardis leaves Bill and the Doctor behind with Nardole still in it, he ends up back at the University but can’t get it to work so eventually asks Missy for help, she then pilots the Tardis to mars to pick up the Doctor and Bill. They then have a heart to heart where the Doctor thinks they’re finally ready to be friends again as she’s finally “good”. Then obviously World Enough and Time begins with them doing a test-run of how Missy would cope in one of the situations the Doctor would normally get in. She’s not a Companion. She literally travels in the Tardis with the Doctor, Bill and Nardole for one trip in one episode, and for most of the series up until Empress of Mars, she doesn’t even leave the Vault.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2018 19:31:24 GMT
She makes a cameo within the Vault in Lie of the Land, when the Tardis team ask her advice on defeating the Monks. In Empress of Mars, the Tardis leaves Bill and the Doctor behind with Nardole still in it, he ends up back at the University but can’t get it to work so eventually asks Missy for help, she then pilots the Tardis to mars to pick up the Doctor and Bill. They then have a heart to heart where the Doctor thinks they’re finally ready to be friends again as she’s finally “good”. Then obviously World Enough and Time begins with them doing a test-run of how Missy would cope in one of the situations the Doctor would normally get in. She’s not a Companion. She literally travels in the Tardis with the Doctor, Bill and Nardole for one trip in one episode, and for most of the series up until Empress of Mars, she doesn’t even leave the Vault. So, to make sure I've got this right, she fails the "in between" wording?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2018 19:33:46 GMT
The measure of a Companion?
About 5' 4"
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2018 19:38:37 GMT
The measure of a Companion? About 5' 4" Is that Terran or Gallifreyan?
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