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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2018 2:07:08 GMT
It's a franchise that directly tackles how women are often invalidated, manipulated or exploited by men. It's central to the whole franchise. And strong roles for women are fewer then strong roles for men, it's kind of alarming when a strong iconic female character's legacy is taken up by a man. Whether or not this is tackled in the novel or audio adapation, I'll have to wait see, but I don't really get why Master Doctor got so up worked over it, particularly when you tried to ease my concerns.
Sorry buddy, but this is starting to sound like one of those arts programs where they try to justify their terrible painting or installation, with nonsense. if you have ever read the expanded universe stuff, you will realise what you are saying is cobblers, you are basing your argument on 3 movies. Now it may seem right from your current viewpoint but trust me there are as many gun touting men as women in the universe. Mostly women exist as equals....they die just as horribly as men. the franchise exists to make money, it’s not a legacy or fight for rights and recognition......it’s a bloody nasty monster franchise that makes a few quid. sorry.
The movies are central. No offence, but people miss the point with extended material all the time. The six movies are the central and most well-known narrative , anything else is kind of secondary and the stuff I've addressed wasn't exactly handled with much subtly. It's not really artsy in any of the way Scott, Cameron, Fincher and Whedon dealt with it, either. The most quouted line out of this franchise was to tear down the word and celebrate and respect Motherhood.
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Post by Zagreus on Apr 23, 2018 2:31:50 GMT
No offence, but people miss the point with extended material all the time. I would generally agree with that. Was not sad when all the pre-Prometheus comics/novels/etc got wiped from canon when Fox decided a fresh start would be easier to keep Disney-Star-Wars levels of control of (and even then, some of the new EU stuff still misses the point (lookin at you, Dark Horse Comics)). |
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Post by muckypup on Apr 23, 2018 2:38:51 GMT
Sorry buddy, but this is starting to sound like one of those arts programs where they try to justify their terrible painting or installation, with nonsense. if you have ever read the expanded universe stuff, you will realise what you are saying is cobblers, you are basing your argument on 3 movies. Now it may seem right from your current viewpoint but trust me there are as many gun touting men as women in the universe. Mostly women exist as equals....they die just as horribly as men. the franchise exists to make money, it’s not a legacy or fight for rights and recognition......it’s a bloody nasty monster franchise that makes a few quid. sorry.
The movies are central. No offence, but people miss the point with extended material all the time. The six movies are the central and most well-known narrative , anything else is kind of secondary and the stuff I've addressed wasn't exactly handled with much subtly. It's not really artsy in any of the way Scott, Cameron, Fincher and Whedon dealt with it, either. The most quouted line out of this franchise was to tear down the word and celebrate and respect Motherhood.
Still sounding like justifying nonsense to me.....sorry we are only still talking about these movies because of the aliens design not motherhood, remember the first movie only just broke even, the third film tanked as did the forth. People like the alien and that’s what continues to sell this franchise not female depiction. Most quoted line.......I think most people would think that would be in space no one can hear you scream. |
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Post by masterdoctor on Apr 23, 2018 3:03:03 GMT
By saying Ripley's legacy can't be carried on by a man just because he is a man, it's the same as saying roles traditionally played by males can't be played by women because they are women (Ghostbusters, Doctor Who etc). Discrimination works both ways. At least read or listen to the story before making up your mind. Unless it's physically impossible (I can't imagine a male Sarah Conner), either gender is equally capable of carrying on a legacy. We've got a female Ripley descendent who kicks ass in Amanda Ripley in the Isolation game. It's not like we're being starved or anything.
It's a franchise that directly tackles how women are often invalidated, manipulated or exploited by men. It's central to the whole franchise. And strong roles for women are fewer then strong roles for men, it's kind of alarming when a strong iconic female character's legacy is taken up by a man. Whether or not this is tackled in the novel or audio adapation, I'll have to wait see, but I don't really get why Master Doctor got so up worked over it, particularly when you tried to ease my concerns.
I am "worked up" as you put it because you saw the book as lesser or improper just because it has a male lead that is descendent from Ripley. You haven't read the book or listened to the audio, so you have no actual context, as if you did you would know that there are plenty of very strong female characters (Which Omega has also pointed out) and that some of them are like Ripley in all but name. And to talk about iconic legacies being taken up by the opposite gender (even sexuality etc.), we have to have it both ways. You can't say that it is okay to replace a male character such as The Doctor to a female, but that you can't change the gender of a female character. |
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Post by masterdoctor on Apr 23, 2018 3:08:27 GMT
Sorry buddy, but this is starting to sound like one of those arts programs where they try to justify their terrible painting or installation, with nonsense. if you have ever read the expanded universe stuff, you will realise what you are saying is cobblers, you are basing your argument on 3 movies. Now it may seem right from your current viewpoint but trust me there are as many gun touting men as women in the universe. Mostly women exist as equals....they die just as horribly as men. the franchise exists to make money, it’s not a legacy or fight for rights and recognition......it’s a bloody nasty monster franchise that makes a few quid. sorry.
The movies are central. No offence, but people miss the point with extended material all the time. The six movies are the central and most well-known narrative , anything else is kind of secondary and the stuff I've addressed wasn't exactly handled with much subtly. It's not really artsy in any of the way Scott, Cameron, Fincher and Whedon dealt with it, either. The most quouted line out of this franchise was to tear down the word and celebrate and respect Motherhood.
Please don't say that extended universe are secondary sources when time and time again you have used Big Finish character development and storylines to inform and argue points about the TV show, such as How would you tell Seven's last BF story? |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2018 3:13:00 GMT
It's a franchise that directly tackles how women are often invalidated, manipulated or exploited by men. It's central to the whole franchise. And strong roles for women are fewer then strong roles for men, it's kind of alarming when a strong iconic female character's legacy is taken up by a man. Whether or not this is tackled in the novel or audio adapation, I'll have to wait see, but I don't really get why Master Doctor got so up worked over it, particularly when you tried to ease my concerns.
I am "worked up" as you put it because you saw the book as lesser or improper just because it has a male lead that is descendent from Ripley. You haven't read the book or listened to the audio, so you have no actual context, as if you did you would know that there are plenty of very strong female characters (Which Omega has also pointed out) and that some of them are like Ripley in all but name. And to talk about iconic legacies being taken up by the opposite gender (even sexuality etc.), we have to have it both ways. You can't say that it is okay to replace a male character such as The Doctor to a female, but that you can't change the gender of a female character.
Omega took me through that, explained why I would enjoy the novel/audio adapation despite and then you decided to but in? And, bud, already clarified myself. Not going there.
I usually enjoy your posts, but yikes.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2018 3:13:53 GMT
The movies are central. No offence, but people miss the point with extended material all the time. The six movies are the central and most well-known narrative , anything else is kind of secondary and the stuff I've addressed wasn't exactly handled with much subtly. It's not really artsy in any of the way Scott, Cameron, Fincher and Whedon dealt with it, either. The most quouted line out of this franchise was to tear down the word and celebrate and respect Motherhood.
Please don't say that extended universe are secondary sources when time and time again you have used Big Finish character development and storylines to inform and argue points about the TV show, such as How would you tell Seven's last BF story?
Seems to go off the rails for me since it's a very much a female franchise. I view Big Finish very much on task. Mind very much open, but doesn't sit right with me in terms of the films, the most well-known and main narrative. See prior posts. And yikeeeeeeeeeeees.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2018 3:14:36 GMT
Please don't say that extended universe are secondary sources when time and time again you have used Big Finish character development and storylines to inform and argue points about the TV show, such as How would you tell Seven's last BF story?
Seems to go off the rails for me since it's a very much a female franchise. I view Big Finish very much on task. Mind very much open, but doesn't sit right with me in terms of the films, the most well-known and main narrative. See prior posts. And yikeeeeeeeeeeees.
Stated my opinion. Hope your Monday goes up from here. I'm kind of...done? Even by my geeky standards.
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Post by masterdoctor on Apr 23, 2018 3:38:37 GMT
Seemed to go off the rails if it's more about dudes. And yikeeeeeeeeeeees.
Stated my opinion. Hope your Monday goes up from here. I'm kind of...done? Even by my geeky standards.
Thanks, I've been having a great Monday, if it keeps going up then I am a very lucky person. |
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Post by Zagreus on Apr 28, 2018 16:42:30 GMT
I must say, Sea of Sorrows was superb!  I found it a little tricky to get through the book, but having it actually played out on audio greatly enhanced the story for me. While it was indeed a bit of an Aliens to OotS's Alien, interviews with the author have revealed that that was always the intent. Fox wanted this to be a bit of a soft reboot, setting all the pieces back on the board after Resurrection. Dekar was great to hear played by a real person, John Chancer really brings him to life. Same with the rest of the cast. I was expecting to learn more about the dog aliens here, but I guess we're leaving that to another time, if any. I also appreciated the way they worked natural sounding conversations about world happenings since Resurrection's ending into the script, didn't sound info-dumpy at all, so good job there I wonder what they're gonna do next year... if they start on the Rage War trilogy, they'll be presumably locked in on that for the next three years. Due to when these books were originally written, there's a fair number of winks and nods to Isolation in these tales, so it'd be interesting for that to get adapted as well. We've also got the new Cold Forge novel, which is fantastic, and I very much wouldn't mind hearing adapted at some point in the future, though I don't know if there's a standard grace period on this sort of thing. Out of the Shadows would have gone into production only about a year after the book came out... There's also the film prologue novels, like Covenant Origins, and Hunters and Hunted, that they could adapt. I'm not sure I'd be super interested in Covenant Origins though, as it's more of a thriller than a horror, and doesn't really feature the creatures at all... I guess while I'm listing everything off, there's also the comics (Fire & Stone / Life & Death could be quite epic), older novels (Original Sin, please and thank you), doing expanded adaptions of the films themselves (like the Star Wars radio dramas), or even writing original screenplays (is that still the right word for a non-visual medium?) for new audios. Either way, looking forward to more! (And I do so hope they start putting out, like, two a year or something :3 ) |
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Post by omega on Apr 28, 2018 22:58:40 GMT
I must say, Sea of Sorrows was superb! I found it a little tricky to get through the book, but having it actually played out on audio greatly enhanced the story for me. While it was indeed a bit of an Aliens to OotS's Alien, interviews with the author have revealed that that was always the intent. Fox wanted this to be a bit of a soft reboot, setting all the pieces back on the board after Resurrection. Dekar was great to hear played by a real person, John Chancer really brings him to life. Same with the rest of the cast. I was expecting to learn more about the dog aliens here, but I guess we're leaving that to another time, if any. I also appreciated the way they worked natural sounding conversations about world happenings since Resurrection's ending into the script, didn't sound info-dumpy at all, so good job there  I wonder what they're gonna do next year... if they start on the Rage War trilogy, they'll be presumably locked in on that for the next three years. Due to when these books were originally written, there's a fair number of winks and nods to Isolation in these tales, so it'd be interesting for that to get adapted as well. We've also got the new Cold Forge novel, which is fantastic, and I very much wouldn't mind hearing adapted at some point in the future, though I don't know if there's a standard grace period on this sort of thing. Out of the Shadows would have gone into production only about a year after the book came out... There's also the film prologue novels, like Covenant Origins, and Hunters and Hunted, that they could adapt. I'm not sure I'd be super interested in Covenant Origins though, as it's more of a thriller than a horror, and doesn't really feature the creatures at all... I guess while I'm listing everything off, there's also the comics (Fire & Stone / Life & Death could be quite epic), older novels (Original Sin, please and thank you), doing expanded adaptions of the films themselves (like the Star Wars radio dramas), or even writing original screenplays (is that still the right word for a non-visual medium?) for new audios. Either way, looking forward to more! (And I do so hope they start putting out, like, two a year or something :3 ) Isn't the Rage War trilogy a crossover with Predator? If they want one-off stories, Cold Forge sounds like a better proposition. Audio adaptations would be a good way to bring some of the older comics into the current canon, like Disney are doing with elements of the Legacy canon (bringing Thrawn in via Rebels for example). Some sort of audio exclusive prequel to Isolation would be great, in the vein of River of Pain. Build up on the world building that did. Maybe call it Alien: Quarantine? |
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Post by Zagreus on Apr 29, 2018 22:51:59 GMT
Isn't the Rage War trilogy a crossover with Predator? If they want one-off stories, Cold Forge sounds like a better proposition. Audio adaptations would be a good way to bring some of the older comics into the current canon, like Disney are doing with elements of the Legacy canon (bringing Thrawn in via Rebels for example). Some sort of audio exclusive prequel to Isolation would be great, in the vein of River of Pain. Build up on the world building that did. Maybe call it Alien: Quarantine? Rage War is indeed the crossover with Predator. I agree that if they're going with one-off stories instead of having us wait three years for the conclusion to a story, that Cold Forge or Covenant Origins are currently the better options for the current batch of books. If they're will to do some of the older books, as they're being reprinted in omnibus format, I can't recommend Original Sin enough. Would be great getting Laurel Lefkow in for Ripley 8, see if you could get Ron Perlman, Winona Ryder, and/or Dominique Pinon back in to reprise their parts, and if not do recasts like they called in Lefkow for, and since they've shown willingness to revise stuff while doing these adaptions, one could easily bring the Mala'kak stuff in line with all the Engineer stuff that's come out in Prometheus, Covenant, and related works since then. And I'd much rather a straight up adaption of Isolation, rather than a prequel. Either way, it's the 40th anniversary of the franchise next year, so I hope it's something special |
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Post by omega on Apr 29, 2018 23:14:44 GMT
Isn't the Rage War trilogy a crossover with Predator? If they want one-off stories, Cold Forge sounds like a better proposition. Audio adaptations would be a good way to bring some of the older comics into the current canon, like Disney are doing with elements of the Legacy canon (bringing Thrawn in via Rebels for example). Some sort of audio exclusive prequel to Isolation would be great, in the vein of River of Pain. Build up on the world building that did. Maybe call it Alien: Quarantine? Rage War is indeed the crossover with Predator. I agree that if they're going with one-off stories instead of having us wait three years for the conclusion to a story, that Cold Forge or Covenant Origins are currently the better options for the current batch of books. If they're will to do some of the older books, as they're being reprinted in omnibus format, I can't recommend Original Sin enough. Would be great getting Laurel Lefkow in for Ripley 8, see if you could get Ron Perlman, Winona Ryder, and/or Dominique Pinon back in to reprise their parts, and if not do recasts like they called in Lefkow for, and since they've shown willingness to revise stuff while doing these adaptions, one could easily bring the Mala'kak stuff in line with all the Engineer stuff that's come out in Prometheus, Covenant, and related works since then. And I'd much rather a straight up adaption of Isolation, rather than a prequel. Either way, it's the 40th anniversary of the franchise next year, so I hope it's something special Covenant Origins has an audiobook reading already. Could do a VR port of Isolation. Who wouldn't want to explore the derelict? |
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Post by Zagreus on Apr 29, 2018 23:17:28 GMT
Rage War is indeed the crossover with Predator. I agree that if they're going with one-off stories instead of having us wait three years for the conclusion to a story, that Cold Forge or Covenant Origins are currently the better options for the current batch of books. If they're will to do some of the older books, as they're being reprinted in omnibus format, I can't recommend Original Sin enough. Would be great getting Laurel Lefkow in for Ripley 8, see if you could get Ron Perlman, Winona Ryder, and/or Dominique Pinon back in to reprise their parts, and if not do recasts like they called in Lefkow for, and since they've shown willingness to revise stuff while doing these adaptions, one could easily bring the Mala'kak stuff in line with all the Engineer stuff that's come out in Prometheus, Covenant, and related works since then. And I'd much rather a straight up adaption of Isolation, rather than a prequel. Either way, it's the 40th anniversary of the franchise next year, so I hope it's something special Covenant Origins has an audiobook reading already. So? So did Out of the Shadows and River of Pain. It obviously doesn't preclude them also doing an adaption. Though right now I would kind of point to Cold Forge not having an audiobook reading as evidence that they're adapting that next... |
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Post by Zagreus on May 3, 2018 21:49:00 GMT
on finishing The Cold Forge for a second time, some notes on a potential dramatization: - I hope they get Vlahos is for Dorian
 - The Confessions style of narration would work rather well for The Cold Forge, switching between Dorian and Blue as the primary narrators, giving their thoughts as we play out the scenes.
- They should get Fassbender to play Marcus.
- Not sure who I'd want playing Blue though. Or the rest of the cast, for that matter.
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Post by Zagreus on May 10, 2018 6:16:59 GMT
Though right now I would kind of point to Cold Forge not having an audiobook reading as evidence that they're adapting that next... I spoke too soon! Pre-order strangely isn't up on audible (yet?) but is up on downpour www.downpour.com/alien-the-cold-forge?sp=260030Same circumstances for the reading of Bug Hunt (finally!) and of the upcoming novelization of The Predator and its prequel novel. |
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Post by muckypup on Jul 4, 2019 16:25:14 GMT
not sure if any ones noticed but todays members deal of the day is Doctor Who: The Master Collection link |
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I found it a little tricky to get through the book, but having it actually played out on audio greatly enhanced the story for me.
