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Post by Deleted on Mar 26, 2018 3:19:18 GMT
How would you tell Seven's last Big Finish adventure?
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Post by dannybl on Mar 26, 2018 9:14:50 GMT
COPIED DIRECTLY FROM ANOTHER FORUM, WRITTEN BY ME:
'Ribs' said ""You could totally do a The Last Adventure set for both Sylvester McCoy and Paul McGann. Both of them - at the same time.""
my reply: Wow. Steven Hall's 50/50 idea specifically used Ace, Hex and Lucie and was going to come out of the Monthly Adventures' Black and White Trilogy, but things changed, apparantly logistics were too complicated and it was scrapped.
But the principle of 7 v 8 could still work! The Seventh Doctor getting too dark and manipulative, and the Eighth Doctor and Ace have no choice to fix what he's done.
Make it a 4 CD box, leading somehow into The TV Movie and perhaps The Night of the Doctor (if BF have other plans for a pre-Night story then just as the Time War is starting). Maybe end the two in a final battle against the Eleven? For the Seventh Doctor it would not be long after he imprisoned him but for the Eighth Doctor it would be after Ravenous/Liv/Helen.
CD1: The Eighth Doctor finds something wrong, cliffhanger with him finding the Seventh Doctor. CD2: The Eighth Doctor knows the Seventh Doctor's plan and is worried about future events. Gets Ace to help stop it. CD3: the Seventh Doctor explains his reasoning (he's done something wrong but definitely not a villain!) and sees the error of his ways. The action moves to a pre-Time War Skaro. CD4: The Eighth and Seventh Doctors team up against the Big Bad on Skaro. The Seventh Doctor retrieves the Master's remains and heads for Gallifrey...
I don't know which other familiar characters could feature (maybe not overstuff it this time?!) but it would be very daring and unlike any other Multi-Doctor story before
The Seventh Doctor wouldn't remember a meeting with his next incarnation. So maybe the Eighth Doctor would remember the beginning but not the end. Btu how would you reconcile the end of the Seventh Doctor's story, he seems pretty jovial on the way to Gallifrey before he goes off course towards SF.
This is complicated but it could work.
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Post by denyer97 on Mar 26, 2018 13:56:30 GMT
I’d like it similar to The Sixth Doctor: The Last Adventure. A story with Mel, a story with Ace and Hex, a story with Klein and a story with Benny all with a recurring theme maybe not the Master because that would be to similar to the Valeyard. I’d like it if he’s Final confrontation is with The Daleks and/or Davros though.
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Post by tardybox on Mar 26, 2018 13:57:30 GMT
Most of what I'd include has already been done in 'The Death Collectors-' down to cheeky references about the Doctor refusing to die to the sound of Puccini! If anything else is needed, it might be an interesting story to find out what precisely led to the Master's execution by the Daleks and why the Daleks were willing to allow their greatest enemy to take his remains away (unless, of course, it was all an elaborate ruse and the Master was in league with the Daleks the whole time to bump the Doctor off...) Other than that, a Last Adventure style set with Mel, Ace, Hex, and Klein would be nice, though since the actual regeneration couldn't be featured, it might feel a bit resolution-less and open-ended.
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Post by sherlock on Mar 26, 2018 14:02:39 GMT
I think a Last Adventure format could work well. The seventh Doctor goes through so many iterations, it'd be interesting to have a story set during Season 24 with Mel, another in Season 26 with Ace, another with Benny and finally one just prior to the Movie. Maybe invert the Last Adventure and have the overarching scheme be revealed as the oldest Doctor's own plan.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 26, 2018 15:18:17 GMT
I think a Last Adventure format could work well. The seventh Doctor goes through so many iterations, it'd be interesting to have a story set during Season 24 with Mel, another in Season 26 with Ace, another with Benny and finally one just prior to the Movie. Maybe invert the Last Adventure and have the overarching scheme be revealed as the oldest Doctor's own plan. I like this idea a lot, with the last one involving collecting the Master's remains from Skaro, but making it into a serious battle with the Daleks and revealing why the Master was executed in the first place. I know he's more Sixie's enemy but I think having the Valeyard appear would also be interesting, and there would be reference to the novel "Matrix" and would perhaps explain what happened to the Valeyard after the Brink of Death.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 27, 2018 2:50:22 GMT
I think a Seven/Hex/Sally reuioun would play better in the Main Range as part of Seven's ongoing story. Maybe we'll see Seven travelling with Hex and Sally again by force of events and they'll steer him towards the contemptment we see in the TV movie?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 27, 2018 3:01:44 GMT
COPIED DIRECTLY FROM ANOTHER FORUM, WRITTEN BY ME: 'Ribs' said ""You could totally do a The Last Adventure set for both Sylvester McCoy and Paul McGann. Both of them - at the same time."" my reply: Wow. Steven Hall's 50/50 idea specifically used Ace, Hex and Lucie and was going to come out of the Monthly Adventures' Black and White Trilogy, but things changed, apparantly logistics were too complicated and it was scrapped. But the principle of 7 v 8 could still work! The Seventh Doctor getting too dark and manipulative, and the Eighth Doctor and Ace have no choice to fix what he's done. Make it a 4 CD box, leading somehow into The TV Movie and perhaps The Night of the Doctor (if BF have other plans for a pre-Night story then just as the Time War is starting). Maybe end the two in a final battle against the Eleven? For the Seventh Doctor it would not be long after he imprisoned him but for the Eighth Doctor it would be after Ravenous/Liv/Helen. CD1: The Eighth Doctor finds something wrong, cliffhanger with him finding the Seventh Doctor. CD2: The Eighth Doctor knows the Seventh Doctor's plan and is worried about future events. Gets Ace to help stop it. CD3: the Seventh Doctor explains his reasoning (he's done something wrong but definitely not a villain!) and sees the error of his ways. The action moves to a pre-Time War Skaro. CD4: The Eighth and Seventh Doctors team up against the Big Bad on Skaro. The Seventh Doctor retrieves the Master's remains and heads for Gallifrey... I don't know which other familiar characters could feature (maybe not overstuff it this time?!) but it would be very daring and unlike any other Multi-Doctor story before The Seventh Doctor wouldn't remember a meeting with his next incarnation. So maybe the Eighth Doctor would remember the beginning but not the end. Btu how would you reconcile the end of the Seventh Doctor's story, he seems pretty jovial on the way to Gallifrey before he goes off course towards SF. This is complicated but it could work. I'm not sure if I personally want to see a full multi-Doctor for Seven and Eight's final curtain call. I think both Doctors deserve to hold the stage for the end of their run, independent of each other and their both very well-informed by the other at this point. I'm not AGASINT an appearance or story in a Last Adventure box set, but I think it does more of a disservice to have them both in the limelight. I think Eight - standing alone - the sum of the original Doctors - might make a more powerful statement then a multi-Doctor appearance. Seven knowing about his future incarnation and finding solace in his sorrow would be a bleak, but appropriate ending to the Seventh Doctor era. I don't think The Last Adventure was overstuffed, though. It was the end of an era - a celeberation of the character and where Big Finish had taken him - of meeting that defining point.
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mbt66
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Post by mbt66 on Mar 28, 2018 10:20:07 GMT
By all means have a multi-era story told in a trilogy for the Seventh Doctor to celebrate his life, but it wouldn’t want that to be his Last Adventure.
I would like a big epic audio movie to lead directly into the TV movie, explaining all of that strange setup.
Featuring the Daleks, The Master (perhaps even multiple Masters) and agent Ace from the CIA. Plus I would like to hear more of the Death Collectors if a writer could fit them in.
Speaking of a writer it would certainly be a challenge for someone making sense of the Seventh Doctor’s Final Adventure.
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mbt66
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Post by mbt66 on Mar 28, 2018 18:44:44 GMT
Just a thought...
Perhaps not something for the Seventh Doctors Final Adventure as such, but I was thinking that the Gallifrey War Council might decide that as the current Eighth Doctor does not want to join the fight against the Daleks then if they changed the past it could still be the Seventh Doctor in the Time War an incarnation more receptive to intervention and manipulation.
But acting against the council is another renegade time lord - The Master who has a vested interest in the past not being changed.
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Post by omega on Mar 29, 2018 0:47:29 GMT
I don't think we need the exact circumstances leading to how the Seventh Doctor went to Skaro to collect the Master's remains. Unlike the Sixth Doctor we know the circumstances that brought him to San Francisco and the alley where he was shot, whereas Time and the Rani opened with the TARDIS being bombarded with Lakerytian radiation, no context for why the TARDIS was in that region of space to begin with. The Brink of Death provides this context.
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Post by Ela on Apr 15, 2018 22:46:15 GMT
Yeah, I don't think we need details on how the Seventh Doctor went to Skaro in that instance, either.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2018 1:30:43 GMT
Maybe I'm misremembering, didn't Doom Coalition's cameo from Sylv sound like he was heading off into the TV Movie events?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2018 1:45:12 GMT
It doesn't hurt to have a direct link up in his own story, though.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2018 1:57:05 GMT
Yes but the criteria should never be "it doesn't hurt" - it should be "does it help". Is it a story needing to be told? Colin never had his moment, his last runout and his handover. Sylv did. There was an obvious and gaping missing part of Colin's story to be told there. Giving The Seventh Doctor a story just to tie eras together doesn't do anything narratively. With The Last Adventure, BF had a completely blank canvas. Not so with the Seventh Doctor's end.
There would have been a much stronger case for McGann to get a Last Adventure until Night Of The Doctor.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2018 2:02:41 GMT
Yes but the criteria should never be "it doesn't hurt" - it should be "does it help". Is it a story needing to be told? Colin never had his moment, his last runout and his handover. Sylv did. There was an obvious and gaping missing part of Colin's story to be told there. Giving The Seventh Doctor a story just to tie eras together doesn't do anything narratively. With The Last Adventure, BF had a completely blank canvas. Not so with the Seventh Doctor's end. There would have been a much stronger case for McGann to get a Last Adventure until Night Of The Doctor. Disagree. With how Big Finish have developed Seven, I think we need a sense of closure. The sadness, the regrets, the arrogance, the weariness - I think they all needs voice, rather then gameplayer who overlooks the obvious, especially in regards to Eight's own journey.
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Post by newt5996 on Apr 16, 2018 2:46:03 GMT
I would like to see Seven's end while acknowledging Lungbarrow and Master. I'd include Death as a character, potentially manipulating the Doctor into a deal, but I wouldn't do a Last Adventure style story, but would do four separate stories This is mainly because I'd want it to be more the Doctor reflecting on himself so Part One would be Ace, Mel and Raine, Part Two would be Benny, Chris, and Roz, and Part Three would be with Klein and Hex, and Part Four would be Seven solo.
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Post by Ela on Apr 16, 2018 5:13:30 GMT
Maybe I'm misremembering, didn't Doom Coalition's cameo from Sylv sound like he was heading off into the TV Movie events? I can't remember specifically, it's been a bit since I listened to Doom Coalition. You could be correct.
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Post by Sir Wearer of Hats on Apr 16, 2018 10:13:57 GMT
I’d have him confront something he did in his worst “Time’s Chsmpion” mode and realise he was a right piece of work.
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Post by theotherjosh on Apr 16, 2018 14:39:06 GMT
I have very mixed feelings about this. Think about the Doctor’s final lines in the series: “There are worlds out there where the sky is burning, where the sea is asleep and the rivers dream; people made of smoke and cities made of song. Somewhere there's danger, somewhere there's injustice, and somewhere else the tea is getting cold. Come on, Ace, we've got work to do.”
I like the thought of Ace and her professor voyaging forever onward, as young and vital as when they spoke those words. They never get tired, they never get old, they simply go up and down and to and fro across all the worlds bringing hope to those who need it most. If we never have an ending, we can believe that they’re still having those adventures even after Sophie and Sylvester are no longer recording them.
This is a situation where we don’t merely tell the story because can; it has to be that we tell the story because we must. The story will have to be so good that it will be a crime not to tell it.
Problem is that we had several conclusions already. A Death in the Family could have been a perfect end to the Seventh Doctor’s run. I think it could have even served as a conclusion to the main range. Likewise, there is a story about how the Seventh Doctor comes to terms with the Elder Gods that have been giving him so much trouble, and that was another suitable ending, or something close enough to it that it doesn’t matter.
What I don’t want:
The Eighth Doctor. This should be Seven’s story. I don’t care for the Eighth Doctor as a character, and the last thing I want is the implication that he’s fixing his predecessor’s mistakes, particularly in Seven’s final story.
A retread of the Six Doctor’s Final Adventure. That was a great story. It was suitable epic, it fixed the problems with canon without ignoring them and it gives Colin the good death he deserved. But the Seventh Doctor is different character in a different situation and a carbon copy retread would do no one any favors.
What I want:
Box set: The format worked very well for the Sixth Doctor and I think it would work here.
Different companions from different eras of the Doctor’s career. Mel’s not my favorite, but she was the first, so Mel, Ace, Hex, Rayne and Klein would all have to be there. Heck, since this is my fantasy, we’re bringing back Ray from Delta and Sally and Aristedes too.
The baddie is a Bad Future Ace, which is revealed in Disc 3 as several seemingly unrelated plot threads pull together. She’s learned all the wrong lessons from the Seventh Doctor. Remember when Davros tells the Tenth Doctor that he turns his friends into weapons? He realizes that’s what he’s done to Ace.
There’s a brief line in the second Klein trilogy that never got much attention, but the Doctor mentions that he’s set the TARDIS up as an ad hoc monitoring station because he’s concerned his next incarnation won’t be willing or able to protect the cosmos to the extent that he can.
Near the end of the story, The Doctor knows he will have to become the Eighth Doctor in order to prevent Evil Ace from coming to pass, and he struggles if it’s the right choice. Not only will he die, but so will countless others down the line because he will become someone who can't protect them. He makes the decision to stop Ace when she kills Hex and Sally and their children.
The conclusion to the set comes as the Doctor steps out of the TARDIS into the hail of gunfire that he knows will kill him. The ending is bittersweet and its canonicity questionable as we reveal that the Doctor has prevented Ace from being swept up in the time storm that started it all and she is living an unremarkable life in Perivale.
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