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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2018 10:44:44 GMT
The War Games leaves us with a horrific: a stagnated society, held down by their God-like powers. It's a strong image that puts the pieces together for the audience for The Doctor's character. But, later stories would make the Time Lords more personable, more defined, less abstract, marking the Time Lords hyprocrities (their intervention in other civilisations) and at times, ridiculous pendatrists. Would Doctor Who have been better served NOT expanding upon it's mythology? Is the War Games enough to propel The Doctor forward? After all, it's the dark and unknown universe that underpins the series.
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Post by thethirddoctor on Apr 1, 2018 11:02:51 GMT
No.
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Post by whiskeybrewer on Apr 3, 2018 12:53:52 GMT
I do think revealing the origins of the planet The Doctor came from was needed
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Post by tardybox on Apr 3, 2018 15:26:08 GMT
While I love the idea of leaving the Time Lords in the abstract, I do prefer their being more clearly defined. If the Time Lords were left as vague, God-like beings I'm not sure that'd fit with the Doctor's own character all that well, at least in most of his incarnations. Also, as a history buff, I also must admit that exploring the myths and history of the Time Lords themselves holds a fascination for me (at least when it's done well, as in Deadly Assassin and Neverland). There's something utterly fascinating about reading the myths of the Other, or hearing about the conflicts between the Time Lords and the Vampires!
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Post by J.A. Prentice on Apr 3, 2018 17:54:06 GMT
I think this is a very good question. I'm not sure they needed to be left alone entirely, but I do feel that every appearance after "The Deadly Assassin" didn't quite work. Even though that story is a far cry from the time-manipulating gods in "The War Games," it still has a sense of ancient power around Gallifrey, that these are truly powerful, alien beings with a computer system made of the dead that can see the future and a singularity powering everything that's been there so long, they've forgotten about it.
After that, the rest of the classic series doesn't really add much to the Time Lords. They become just another alien race, which makes the Doctor just another alien. In "The War Games" he comes across as a rogue angel who ran away from Heaven. In "Trial of a Time Lord," he's an alien-of-the-week from a planet of people who sit in courtrooms watching TV.
The Time Lords are best if used sparingly, I think, but it also matters how you use them. If the Time Lords show up, it should be a big deal.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2018 2:44:46 GMT
I think this is a very good question. I'm not sure they needed to be left alone entirely, but I do feel that every appearance after "The Deadly Assassin" didn't quite work. Even though that story is a far cry from the time-manipulating gods in "The War Games," it still has a sense of ancient power around Gallifrey, that these are truly powerful, alien beings with a computer system made of the dead that can see the future and a singularity powering everything that's been there so long, they've forgotten about it. After that, the rest of the classic series doesn't really add much to the Time Lords. They become just another alien race, which makes the Doctor just another alien. In "The War Games" he comes across as a rogue angel who ran away from Heaven. In "Trial of a Time Lord," he's an alien-of-the-week from a planet of people who sit in courtrooms watching TV. The Time Lords are best if used sparingly, I think, but it also matters how you use them. If the Time Lords show up, it should be a big deal. I had a long thought about Trial. A loooong thought and I think a large part of what saves it is their manipulations on Ravelox, Thoros Beta and potentially on the Hyperion III. The effect they have on other races can be really damn interesting to explore. The Minyans, Salyavin, Mawdryn's death-seekers... The Andromedans from The Mysterious Planet who managed to steal past Gallifrey's defences and make off with a chunk of the Matrix sound like something worth exploring -- which unfortunately Trial never did. Same with Terror of the Vervoids's distorted evidence. Is it just the projections that have been manipulated or did the Valeyard actually go into the future and change history? It's fascinating stuff. After The Invasion of Time, I think only The Five Doctors really brings back some of that mystique. It has an almost high fantasy feeling to it. These are people who have been around the cosmos, done everything else that the lesser powers are doing and simply just outgrew it. They are sworn not to interfere and neither feel any need to. And yet... Yet despite the gorgeous, ivory archways and balconies, overlooking gold skies and burnished mountains... There's still just that hint of wood rot. That not all the old ghosts have been lain to rest quite yet. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2018 3:23:25 GMT
I think this is a very good question. I'm not sure they needed to be left alone entirely, but I do feel that every appearance after "The Deadly Assassin" didn't quite work. Even though that story is a far cry from the time-manipulating gods in "The War Games," it still has a sense of ancient power around Gallifrey, that these are truly powerful, alien beings with a computer system made of the dead that can see the future and a singularity powering everything that's been there so long, they've forgotten about it. After that, the rest of the classic series doesn't really add much to the Time Lords. They become just another alien race, which makes the Doctor just another alien. In "The War Games" he comes across as a rogue angel who ran away from Heaven. In "Trial of a Time Lord," he's an alien-of-the-week from a planet of people who sit in courtrooms watching TV. The Time Lords are best if used sparingly, I think, but it also matters how you use them. If the Time Lords show up, it should be a big deal. The Andromedans from The Mysterious Planet who managed to steal past Gallifrey's defences and make off with a chunk of the Matrix sound like something worth exploring -- which unfortunately Trial never did.
If Colin Baker hadn't been fired, we'd probably seen some sort of follow up.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2018 3:41:33 GMT
The Andromedans from The Mysterious Planet who managed to steal past Gallifrey's defences and make off with a chunk of the Matrix sound like something worth exploring -- which unfortunately Trial never did.
If Colin Baker hadn't been fired, we'd probably seen some sort of follow up.
Potentially. But then, it's been 32 years since and we still know nothing about the Sleepers. Ah, well. *claps hands* Fertile ground for storytelling. |
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Post by charlesuirdhein on Apr 4, 2018 4:40:56 GMT
Oh Lord why am I awake at this time?
Anyway, the main problem I see with Gallifrey and Timelords is that there has never been ANY effort to make them work as a society, and that includes BF's Gallifrey. I have literally no idea what an everyday Gallifreyan does, wants to do, is able to do, at all. Are we looking at a Socratic Republic here? Sometimes it seems to be one, other times not. What do the Presidents and government actually DO? Sure, dealing with other time capable cultures etc but so what? That can't be everything. What about trade? I mean normal trade. Is Gallifrey a federal planet of semi autonomous city states? How do you deal with a society where a Timelord, with due care and consideration of their health, can live for millenia? We get asked how many children died in the Time War. I ask why were there so many? If indeed they ARE all Timelords. Is their a difference between Gallifreyan and Timelord? It's an old question but still unanswered. No, I don't want future Gallifrey/Timelord stories reduced to Star Wars Prequels about trade routes but the groundwork for a believable world still isn't there and if they're not going to answer it then staying away is better. And that leads me to say that Gallifrey Time War is the best release so far in the audio stories, where we concentrate on Gallifrey fighting for its survival and don't have to think about what it is. Semi tired rant. May clarify further later.
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Post by thethirddoctor on Apr 4, 2018 10:10:42 GMT
Should the new series have left the Time Lords alone?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2018 10:13:36 GMT
If Colin Baker hadn't been fired, we'd probably seen some sort of follow up.
Potentially. But then, it's been 32 years since and we still know nothing about the Sleepers. Ah, well. *claps hands* Fertile ground for storytelling. It'd be intresting to see it setup as a ongoing plotline in the Sixth Doctor releases with reverberations with the Seventh Doctor. |
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Post by Jeedai on Apr 4, 2018 18:06:47 GMT
So much of the Doctor's identity is tied up in running away from Gallifrey, I think was and is necessary to give us glimpses every now and then of what the Doctor was and is running away from. If only to show the us more about who the Doctor is by showing more of what they stand against. The superior smugness, the hypocrisy, the serpentine politics, the willingness of those on high to use him/her and other renegades as expendable tools for their own meddlesome ends while maintaining a squeaky-clean pretense of non-intervention.
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