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Post by Audio Watchdog on Apr 8, 2018 17:56:24 GMT
CultBox has been doing a series of pieces on the script editors and in this one they write about the great Robert Holmes.What is your favorite Robert Holmes story? |
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Post by thethirddoctor on Apr 8, 2018 18:46:29 GMT
Probably his contribution towards Genesis of the Daleks.
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Post by Audio Watchdog on Apr 8, 2018 18:53:25 GMT
Obviously Talons , which I think is maybe the greatest Who story but I’m also really fond of The Sun Makers.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2018 19:46:01 GMT
Yep, The Talons of Weng-Chiang and The Caves of Androzani for sure, but most of his contributions were notably good.
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Post by Audio Watchdog on Apr 8, 2018 19:48:05 GMT
Yep, The Talons of Weng-Chiang and The Caves of Androzani for sure , but most of his contributions were notably good. Yeah. Definitely Caves of Andronzani. What a great story. |
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Post by constonks on Apr 9, 2018 3:11:54 GMT
(For a second I thought "oh no did Robert Holmes die?!" until I remembered he died before I was born.)
Talons is obviously #1 for me - top notch stuff. It's Jago. It's Litefoot. It's Tom Baker at his strongest. It's got great cliffhangers, a big dumb man in a rat suit and Leela trying to be "civilised". (It's only let down by the racial aspect and changing sensibilities... But this isn't probably the thread in which to open that can of worms.)
The Sun Makers is properly weird and great though - partially in its direction but the script is absolutely the solid foundation.
I'll also throw a side of The Mysterious Planet on the table - I said this recently in the Colin Baker Favourites topic but the bit about the three remaining books and the Canada Goose always cracks me up.
Oh and The Time Warrior was the first classic Who I ever watched and it was a great intro: an archetypal story done excellently.
Carnival of Monstersand The Deadly Assassin need to be namechecked as well but I won't go into the why - I'm sure others will at some point in this thread!
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Post by Hieronymus on Apr 9, 2018 3:43:55 GMT
I'm going to throw a little love to The Krotons, a story whose poor on-screen realization undermines the rich ideas that went into it. - Krotons have no permanent physical body, but can store their consciousness and grow new bodies as needed. Effectively, they are immortal and infinitely adaptable.
- They treat organic life as a consumable, replaceable resource.
- They operate behind the scenes using social engineering through their teaching machines to achieve their goals. This sort of social engineering forseen by Holmes is now becoming reality in China, and is a key element of Black Mirror. Robert Holmes got there first.
The Krotons had far more potential built into their first appearance than has been realized in even their boldest returns in audio or written adventures. The Deadly Assassin may be my favorite Holmes script: the first story set entirely on Gallifrey and the long awaited return of an old enemy. It also introduced The Matrix as a virtual reality space far ahead of the more broadly known film version. And the man created both the Autons and the Sontarans, and wrote stories for five different Doctors. |
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Post by constonks on Apr 9, 2018 3:53:59 GMT
I'm going to throw a little love to The Krotons, a story whose poor on-screen realization undermines the rich ideas that went into it. - Krotons have no permanent physical body, but can store their consciousness and grow new bodies as needed. Effectively, they are immortal and infinitely adaptable.
- They treat organic life as a consumable, replaceable resource.
- They operate behind the scenes using social engineering through their teaching machines to achieve their goals. This sort of social engineering forseen by Holmes is now becoming reality in China, and is a key element of Black Mirror. Robert Holmes got there first.
The Krotons had far more potential built into their first appearance than has been realized in even their boldest returns in audio or written adventures. When you put it that way, they deserve a full redesign and to appear on TV again ASAP - although Lawrence Miles did do some interesting stuff with them in Alien Bodies (even if they're faaaar from the main event in that book). |
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Post by Timelord007 on Apr 9, 2018 6:03:42 GMT
One of the shows best writers whom has written many of the shows most iconic memorable adventures, & one of my favourite writers.
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shutupbanks
Castellan
There’s a horror movie called Alien? That’s really offensive. No wonder everyone keeps invading you.
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Post by shutupbanks on Apr 9, 2018 11:04:51 GMT
Carnival Of monsters, Time Warrior, Sun Makers, Talons, Androzani, Mysterious Planet, ... pretty much everything, and since you didn't specify Doctor Who, I'll add Orbit as well: a very jolly and camp yarn that suddenly goes incredibly dark in the last few minutes without the viewer feeling a tonal shift.
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Post by whiskeybrewer on Apr 9, 2018 12:59:18 GMT
Caves of Androzani just pips Talons to the top. Although it does come close.
What a pair
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Post by thethirddoctor on Apr 9, 2018 17:58:55 GMT
Carnival Of monsters, Time Warrior, Sun Makers, Talons, Androzani, Mysterious Planet, ... pretty much everything, and since you didn't specify Doctor Who, I'll add Orbit as well: a very jolly and camp yarn that suddenly goes incredibly dark in the last few minutes without the viewer feeling a tonal shift. I love his adaptation of The Nightmare Man. |
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Post by J.A. Prentice on Apr 9, 2018 19:01:38 GMT
I love most of his stories, but Talons is the best for me (despite the awkward racism, though that was made worse by the execution as I doubt Holmes's script included 'and made sure he's played by a white man in yellowface.'). It gave us Jago and Litefoot, but it's also a wonderfully atmospheric story that uses both the Doctor and Leela well, features a compelling villain in Magnus Greel, creates a memorable monster in the Peking Homunculus, and has some brilliant worldbuilding in the Doctor's exposition about the 51st century.
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