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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2018 9:18:01 GMT
Hey everyone,
Do we need more Time Lord stories (after the inevitable resolution of current plot threads)? Are The Time Lords - the Time War, etc enough of a driving force for The Doctor's character moving forward?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2018 11:31:05 GMT
I think the Time Lords and Gallifrey are boring. The odd reference here and there to them is fine but we don't need too much Time Lordy stuff in Doctor Who stories. The Doctor is a renegade Time Lord and travels Time and Space having adventures. Time Lords/Gallifrey politics don't really add much to the enjoyment levels of an adventure for me. So if they keep general Time Lord stories to a minimum and I'll be happy.
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Post by jasonward on Apr 14, 2018 11:45:08 GMT
The word "need" often annoys me. After food, water and shelter, there are very few needs. OK so create a different context, and you can say if there are "Who" stories then certain things are needed, so for instance time travel, a Doctor... and that's probably it when it comes to needs and Who. So, in plain answer to the OP, no, we don't need more Timelord stories.
But that's not the point is it? The point is, can good stories be told with Timelords and would telling those stories add to the depth and quality of overall Who stories? If yes, then sure tell a Timelord story, if not, then don't. It not about something being needed, its about whether there is a story to tell that enhances Who or not.
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Post by charlesuirdhein on Apr 14, 2018 11:50:08 GMT
If they're good, sure. Otherwise no.
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Post by thethirddoctor on Apr 14, 2018 12:22:44 GMT
Always worth the appearance in a good story, but they were a huge let down in Heaven Sent/Hell Bent.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2018 12:25:45 GMT
The word "need" often annoys me. After food, water and shelter, there are very few needs. OK so create a different context, and you can say if there are "Who" stories then certain things are needed, so for instance time travel, a Doctor... and that's probably it when it comes to needs and Who. So, in plain answer to the OP, no, we don't need more Timelord stories. But that's not the point is it? The point is, can good stories be told with Timelords and would telling those stories add to the depth and quality of overall Who stories? If yes, then sure tell a Timelord story, if not, then don't. It not about something being needed, its about whether there is a story to tell that enhances Who or not. Is English your first language, Jason? Your very fluent. It's a pretty common turn of phrase in English. |
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Post by jasonward on Apr 14, 2018 12:43:02 GMT
The word "need" often annoys me. After food, water and shelter, there are very few needs. OK so create a different context, and you can say if there are "Who" stories then certain things are needed, so for instance time travel, a Doctor... and that's probably it when it comes to needs and Who. So, in plain answer to the OP, no, we don't need more Timelord stories. But that's not the point is it? The point is, can good stories be told with Timelords and would telling those stories add to the depth and quality of overall Who stories? If yes, then sure tell a Timelord story, if not, then don't. It not about something being needed, its about whether there is a story to tell that enhances Who or not. Is English your first language, Jason? Your very fluent. It's a pretty common turn of phrase in English. English is my first language, my annoyance comes from having a firm grounding in language and the impact that hearing and saying it has on peoples psychologies, My dislike of the word "need" when not actually talking about needs comes not from some position about people using the correct English/word, it's because peoples world views are shaped by things like "need" and "want" and the failure to make distinct the huge gulf between the two meanings leads to a poorer human condition, leads to people thinking, believing, indeed "knowing" that they need something, acting, behaving as if their life depended on it, when it does not, weather this be a some teenager and the latest iPhone or an entire country about to go to war out of some "need". I just think that people thinking wants and desires are needs is at best misguided and at worst deadly. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2018 12:46:20 GMT
I think the Time Lords and Gallifrey are boring. The odd reference here and there to them is fine but we don't need too much Time Lordy stuff in Doctor Who stories. The Doctor is a renegade Time Lord and travels Time and Space having adventures. Time Lords/Gallifrey politics don't really add much to the enjoyment levels of an adventure for me. So if they keep general Time Lord stories to a minimum and I'll be happy. I'm defiantly of the view that less is more when it comes to the Time Lords. Honestly, I'm kind of the view if it'd been better if The War Games had been the last we'd seen of them, it'd be enough of a push for the series to keep forward. Doctor Who at it's heart is mysterious and it's more fun that way with the occasional tease. The Deadly Assassin is great, but it defines and reveals too much about the Time Lords and The Doctor. And I don't envy the producers of the original series that keeping things intresting in a twenty-five year old series and not having some sort of pay off isn't necessary, but I still think it's a mistake, great stories aside. There are hundred ways The Doctor could have gotten his memories back without Time Lord intervention, anyway. |
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Post by mrperson on Apr 14, 2018 20:51:49 GMT
I wouldn't mind having the Doctor having to foil some shenanigans of theirs. Remember, these are post-Time War Timelords and the Daleks have magically failed to notice their return or just plain gave up on the whole conquering the multiverse thing. They don't necessarily have to be the same stuffy bores.
It all depends how it's done. I quite liked the Gallifrey series - that shows they can be done well.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2018 21:12:37 GMT
I wouldn't mind having the Doctor having to foil some shenanigans of theirs. Remember, these are post-Time War Timelords and the Daleks have magically failed to notice their return or just plain gave up on the whole conquering the multiverse thing. They don't necessarily have to be the same stuffy bores. It all depends how it's done. I quite liked the Gallifrey series - that shows they can be done well. Eh, it wouldn't surprise me if the new High Council aren't any better then the old. It's after war and can you imagine trying to spin The Doctor's actions? Power is tempting and the upheveal in Galifery and War propogonda could also lead Galifery to some dark places. On the otherhand, having the new joyful Doctor navigate the greys and reliase there were some truths from his old tutor would also be intresting. |
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Post by mrperson on Apr 15, 2018 0:11:49 GMT
I wouldn't mind having the Doctor having to foil some shenanigans of theirs. Remember, these are post-Time War Timelords and the Daleks have magically failed to notice their return or just plain gave up on the whole conquering the multiverse thing. They don't necessarily have to be the same stuffy bores. It all depends how it's done. I quite liked the Gallifrey series - that shows they can be done well. Eh, it wouldn't surprise me if the new High Council aren't any better then the old. It's after war and can you imagine trying to spin The Doctor's actions? Power is tempting and the upheveal in Galifery and War propogonda could also lead Galifery to some dark places. On the otherhand, having the new joyful Doctor navigate the greys and reliase there were some truths from his old tutor would also be intresting. I'll add to my last comment by saying that if they make an appearance, I'd want to see it as part of something that addresses why it is the Time War failed to re-ignite when Gallifrey returned despite how absolutely certain The Doctor was that this would happen. I'm not buying the "hidden at the end of time" thing because this was a war where "every point in space and time is burning". So, something had to have happened. Did they discover some new technology? They were supposed to be "frozen in an instant of time" like cup-o-soup, except, they weren't. Because Rassilon was in one incarnation when Gallifrey was saved, and in another when it returned. Even if the actors changed for real-world reasons, that's still in-show canon, as it were. So perhaps an episode could be structured around them discovering some way to truly hide themselves, which way has something to do with something they're trying to do once back in the universe. I don't know, but I don't like the way it sits right now. I'd much rather that, than to have a brief info dump or for it to be ignored. I suppose we'll see. Several more months now... |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2018 2:16:34 GMT
Eh, it wouldn't surprise me if the new High Council aren't any better then the old. It's after war and can you imagine trying to spin The Doctor's actions? Power is tempting and the upheveal in Galifery and War propogonda could also lead Galifery to some dark places. On the otherhand, having the new joyful Doctor navigate the greys and reliase there were some truths from his old tutor would also be intresting. Because Rassilon was in one incarnation when Gallifrey was saved, and in another when it returned. Even if the actors changed for real-world reasons, that's still in-show canon, as it were. Wouldn't that only be an issue if the events of Hell Bent/Heaven Sent were supposed to be set straight after the earlier stories? We don't know how long it's been for the people on Gallifrey since things returned to normal. Anything could have happened. It's not really any different from the various Borusas. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2018 4:00:35 GMT
Eh, it wouldn't surprise me if the new High Council aren't any better then the old. It's after war and can you imagine trying to spin The Doctor's actions? Power is tempting and the upheveal in Galifery and War propogonda could also lead Galifery to some dark places. On the otherhand, having the new joyful Doctor navigate the greys and reliase there were some truths from his old tutor would also be intresting. I'll add to my last comment by saying that if they make an appearance, I'd want to see it as part of something that addresses why it is the Time War failed to re-ignite when Gallifrey returned despite how absolutely certain The Doctor was that this would happen. I'm not buying the "hidden at the end of time" thing because this was a war where "every point in space and time is burning". So, something had to have happened. Did they discover some new technology? They were supposed to be "frozen in an instant of time" like cup-o-soup, except, they weren't. Because Rassilon was in one incarnation when Gallifrey was saved, and in another when it returned. Even if the actors changed for real-world reasons, that's still in-show canon, as it were. So perhaps an episode could be structured around them discovering some way to truly hide themselves, which way has something to do with something they're trying to do once back in the universe. I don't know, but I don't like the way it sits right now. I'd much rather that, than to have a brief info dump or for it to be ignored. I suppose we'll see. Several more months now... Eh, I don't think we're getting Time Lords in Thirteen's first series, though. Chibnall seems to be repositioning The Doctor back to eccentric maverick and aiming for his first series to be a jumping on point and apart from the inevitable Dalek reappearance, I don't think we're getting any callbacks. From the logo reveal, it seems we're heading towards some new big stuff. It's possible we might get some Time Lord tease in the finale, though. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2018 4:20:03 GMT
Eh, it wouldn't surprise me if the new High Council aren't any better then the old. It's after war and can you imagine trying to spin The Doctor's actions? Power is tempting and the upheveal in Galifery and War propogonda could also lead Galifery to some dark places. On the otherhand, having the new joyful Doctor navigate the greys and reliase there were some truths from his old tutor would also be intresting. I'll add to my last comment by saying that if they make an appearance, I'd want to see it as part of something that addresses why it is the Time War failed to re-ignite when Gallifrey returned despite how absolutely certain The Doctor was that this would happen. I'm not buying the "hidden at the end of time" thing because this was a war where "every point in space and time is burning". So, something had to have happened. Did they discover some new technology? They were supposed to be "frozen in an instant of time" like cup-o-soup, except, they weren't. Because Rassilon was in one incarnation when Gallifrey was saved, and in another when it returned. Even if the actors changed for real-world reasons, that's still in-show canon, as it were. So perhaps an episode could be structured around them discovering some way to truly hide themselves, which way has something to do with something they're trying to do once back in the universe. I don't know, but I don't like the way it sits right now. I'd much rather that, than to have a brief info dump or for it to be ignored. I suppose we'll see. Several more months now... Missy tries to give The Daleks the TARDIS and the Daleks are reventerial to Davros again, suggesting that their latest conquests haven't been going well and Davros enters a desperate gamble to prolong his own life and add to his creation's abilities, so it seems that both sides capabilities are exhausted by the war. I'm generally VERY happy with what the revial does, but this does bother me given The Time of The Doctor. I'm okay with NOT everything in the Doctor Who universe revolving around The Doctor (such as the Cyber Wars), but a line or two wouldn't hurt. As for the whole 'frozen in time', I get not wanting to pull back too much on contiunty, but yeah, a line or two would have helped there as well. And a frozen Galifery under siege from an alien presence IS such a Moffatt story, I'm surprised he didn't tell it. I get Moffat's intentions, but still. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2018 9:49:49 GMT
No.
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Post by MayoTango131 on Apr 17, 2018 0:45:36 GMT
I would really like a story with Meddling Monk accusing the Doctor of being a hypocrite for using the same tricks he used to do (especially the Seventh and Eleventh Doctors) playing time at will.
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Post by constonks on Apr 17, 2018 2:40:17 GMT
I'd rather Big Finish use Gallifrey than the TV show. The planet's politics have always been best when there's some time to dive into it, Gallifrey the series being the prime example (although novels have done well too).
That's not to say renegades shouldn't show up though - I too would love to see the Monk (although if he's not Bill Bailey I'll be disappointed), but I also think Chibnall should try creating a new recurring Time Lord with their own schemes and agendas. After all, the only Time Lord villains we've had on TV since 1987 (or '93, if you feel so inclined) have been Rassilon and the Master. Plenty of room to grow there.
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