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Post by nucleusofswarm on May 11, 2018 23:54:13 GMT
Neither ranks as perhaps the finest hour of their respective monster, but which 4 story comes out as more engaging? Deadlocked space computers and glam robots, or gold planets and a sassy Cyberleader?
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Post by fingersmash on May 12, 2018 2:17:38 GMT
Neither ranks as perhaps the finest hour of their respective monster, but which 4 story comes out as more engaging? Deadlocked space computers and glam robots, or gold planets and a sassy Cyberleader? You answered the question you asked. Who doesn't love a sassy Cyberleader? |
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Post by nucleusofswarm on May 12, 2018 9:29:12 GMT
Neither ranks as perhaps the finest hour of their respective monster, but which 4 story comes out as more engaging? Deadlocked space computers and glam robots, or gold planets and a sassy Cyberleader? You answered the question you asked. Who doesn't love a sassy Cyberleader? In his own words: ''Eggscellent''. |
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Post by mark687 on May 12, 2018 10:56:52 GMT
I think Revenge cause its only the movement of the Cybermen that's off where as Destiny is really badly paced, I mean parts 3 and 4 drag, have filler scenes and still have a dead space cliff hanger.
Regards
mark687
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lidar2
Castellan
You know, now that you mention it, I actually do rather like Attack of the Cybermen ...
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Post by lidar2 on May 12, 2018 11:29:43 GMT
Revenge.
Despite all else, it still has the Hinchcliffe stamp of quality whereas Destiny still has the season 17 stamp of silliness.
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2018 15:09:04 GMT
I am a BIG Dalek fan, but Destiny of the Daleks doesn't have a lot going for it. It's a very poor story and boring to watch at times. Revenge of the Cybermen while not a Fourth Doctor 'classic' is a much more enjoyable story. So that would get my vote if there was a poll between these two stories.
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Post by sherlock on May 12, 2018 15:31:14 GMT
I quite like Destiny of the Daleks. *Ducks for cover*
I can't really compare as I've seen Revenge of the Cybermen once, way back when SciFi Channel did a Classic Who weekend about 8/9 years ago. I can remember the scene of Nerva nearly crashing, and that's about it.
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2018 16:05:30 GMT
Well i like both stories, with memories of having seen both first time round, though i was in the behind the sofa phase for Revenge, so the Cybermat attack is the residual memory from 1975 (and the Weetabix card Cyberman).
Revenge wins for me however as the first VHS Doctor Who i got in 1986 (£9.99), it has immense nostalgic appeal from that time and is still hardwired in my memory from repeated viewings (love the music) as a fervent 15 year old fan. OK, so Pyramids of Mars arrived in the post from the Sheffield Space Centre (£25) the same day and stood out as a superior story watching straight afterwards, but as the only other past doctor story i had a the time was an off air recording of the Five Doctors, it was always going to form part of the core 'ground zero' of my burgeoning obsession with this show that continues to this day.
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2018 16:23:32 GMT
It felt to me like Destiny was trying to be silly and was silly, whereas Revenge was trying to be good and came off as silly. Destiny is therefore better.
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Post by barnabaslives on May 12, 2018 18:05:52 GMT
I seem to be rather evenly divided on the two. Destiny probably isn't near the top of my list of great Dalek stories but the Movellans are great (I like to think of them more as "space Egyptians" than "disco aliens") and everything seems colorful and inventive, not to mention the stunning debut of Romana II also being worth a generous quantity of extra points.
The stupendous return of the Cybermen is hugely welcome and of course also worth plenty of points, but the story does have some weak points in my opinion, so all things considered the two stories come out pretty close. If I were forced to pick one though I'd probably go with Destiny.
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Post by omega on May 13, 2018 9:51:20 GMT
Destiny also has the scene at the start where Romana tries on different bodies like she's at a clothing store. It's the only time in any medium a Time Lord has been able to shapeshift after a regeneration, and such a feat has never been seen or referenced since. Shapeshifting outside of regeneration has never been seen or alluded to. Seems like padding to me.
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Post by barnabaslives on May 13, 2018 17:25:41 GMT
Destiny also has the scene at the start where Romana tries on different bodies like she's at a clothing store. It's the only time in any medium a Time Lord has been able to shapeshift after a regeneration, and such a feat has never been seen or referenced since. Shapeshifting outside of regeneration has never been seen or alluded to. Seems like padding to me. In the context of it being an affectionate parody of the Fourth Doctor's introduction, it can be rather endearing. I've also had the odd bit of fun on occasion trying to explain exactly how it was possible - apparently someone is quite clever when it comes to modifying perception filters or Blinovitch Thingies, or something like that? |
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Post by omega on May 14, 2018 0:39:59 GMT
Destiny also has the scene at the start where Romana tries on different bodies like she's at a clothing store. It's the only time in any medium a Time Lord has been able to shapeshift after a regeneration, and such a feat has never been seen or referenced since. Shapeshifting outside of regeneration has never been seen or alluded to. Seems like padding to me. In the context of it being an affectionate parody of the Fourth Doctor's introduction, it can be rather endearing. I've also had the odd bit of fun on occasion trying to explain exactly how it was possible - apparently someone is quite clever when it comes to modifying perception filters or Blinovitch Thingies, or something like that? In regeneration lore it's still an oddity. We've had a Time Lord change species, through an unknown variation on regeneration, and the Doctor regrew a severed hand. Gender bending regeneration has become more prominent. The Master was able to influence his regeneration to get a younger body. But full blown shapeshifting has only been seen in this instance.
As a parody of the Fourth Doctor's introduction, as you suggest it can be viewed as, changing outfits would have been a better idea. The Fourth Doctor went through a wardrobe sampling montage, and in the opening scene of Destiny it's when Romana is wearing an outfit resembling the Doctor's that he departs the topic of Romana resembling Astra.
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2018 0:52:03 GMT
They're both fair enough stories on paper... The return of the Daleks/Cybermen reeling from off-screen wars against an adversary we've never encountered before. But it does feel as though we're going half-power with both of them. Poor David Gooderson having to wear the mask of his predecessor (metaphorically and literally) without the same philosophical content to back him up and the Cyberleader deciding it would be better to tie the Doctor and Sarah up rather than taking them onboard the shuttle. I do think Revenge wins out on production values, using the old Ark sets and their film allotment for the caves. I get the impression that Destiny, because it was originally scripted as a night shoot like Cygnus Alpha in Blake's 7, was meant to rely very heavily on its atmosphere. Which again, Revenge seems to win out on.  Destiny might just win out on compelling adversaries, though. The Movellans manage to be a really interesting addition, even if their defeat should have been more effort than what it ultimately was. The fight at the end between Sharrel and Romana where he's rendered armless is handled rather well. And the Daleks' solution to their stalemate with the Doctor being to execute their workers one-by-one is a very welcome return to the deviousness of things like Power and Evil. Yeah, I dunno. They're a pretty even match for things I find clever (the Cybermen's helmet-guns and the Movellan ship's method of entrenchment) and things which could have required more work (wouldn't the Cybermat have worked better unseen? Why not give the Dalek slaves a B-plot?). (*cough* I recently re-edited Revenge of the Cybermen, details here *much coughing*) |
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Post by constonks on May 16, 2018 0:40:41 GMT
My memory is a little foggy of both - I actually had a conversation about Revenge of the Cybermen with my father-in-law just the other day and realised how little I remembered (he liked the touch of the Vogans distrusting people who wear gold).
As for Destiny, I just remember a few of the jokes in Part 1. Although if I had to guess which one was better based on my scant memory, I'd guess Revenge - it's a weak spot in a strong season, but it makes more sense on the whole IIRC.
But again I should rewatch both.
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Destiny might just win out on compelling adversaries, though. The Movellans manage to be a really interesting addition, even if their defeat should have been more effort than what it ultimately was. The fight at the end between Sharrel and Romana where he's rendered armless is handled rather well. And the Daleks' solution to their stalemate with the Doctor being to execute their workers one-by-one is a very welcome return to the deviousness of things like Power and Evil.