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Post by charlesuirdhein on Feb 3, 2019 21:20:17 GMT
For my two cents it's an entirely arbitrary line in 8's life that BF commercially chose to label as a jumping on point. Narrative wise it is no such thing. Unlike in "Rose", 8's immediate past is known and accessible to us and drives his actions at the very opening of the set, rather than being the banked fire of mystery hate, which gets drip fed to us as part of the set up of the 2005 return, that fills 9. Prior to this 8 had two genuine jumping on points, "Storm Warning" and "Blood of the Daleks", and they are such in that it is possible to have only seen the TV movie (or even "Night of the Doctor") and then listened to both without missing a beat. You simply can't do that with Dark Eyes. It is however an excellent set and well worth sticking with, though continuing to buy BF's output because one started with Dark Eyes is a correlation argument and not a causative one. Concerning comparisons to "The Pilot" and "The Eleventh Hour", well the former is no reboot of any kind, soft or not, while the latter is definitely a soft reboot, but the story itself tells you everything you need to know, and Dark Eyes doesn't do that.
The format is much friendlier to jumping on, that's definitely true, you get more value per pound in the set than buying "Storm Warning" or "Blood of the Daleks" (Though that's actually two purchases), and it feels like a mini season, rather than "I wonder what episode 2 is like?" The loss of Ruth Bradley is felt, definitely, but what can you do? People have careers and BF can't chain them down (no one give Briggs hints!) For the further sets the return of McQueen is just a godsend. We need him to star in another multi-master story. Perhaps when they secure John Simm for a box set then McQueen can join the gang, hell, bring Dreyfuss too and lord it up! And I agree that the Eminence could have lasted longer as a villain, it's a villain that I'd have loved to have seen actually on screen.
Anyway, those are my ramblings. It's not like they're holy writ.
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Post by elkawho on Feb 3, 2019 21:32:54 GMT
Yeah, agree with you about McQueen in this storyline. Without Ruth Bradley there, he makes it work as much as McGann and Nicola Walker. I also would love to see him back soon. It seems this has been the year of The Master, and his abscence is definitely felt. Hmmm...Simm and McQueen, boy that's quite the over-the-top pairing. It might actually be fanstastic!
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Post by charlesuirdhein on Feb 3, 2019 21:47:50 GMT
Yeah, agree with you about McQueen in this storyline. Without Ruth Bradley there, he makes it work as much as McGann and Nicola Walker. I also would love to see him back soon. It seems this has been the year of The Master, and his abscence is definitely felt. Hmmm...Simm and McQueen, boy that's quite the over-the-top pairing. It might actually be fanstastic! Well, same box set at least. Outside of His televised appearances we can sort of assume we know where Saxon Master is. So sometime post his whatever-the-hell happened on Gallifrey on the last day of the Time War in the rooms of the High Council. Clearly the Master DIDN'T kill Rassilon, because "Hell Bent" exists, but he had his condition fixed (instability definitely, and the drumming too I suppose), and then he...gets out? How? Be interesting to find out. Then some swanning about before the events leading to "World Enough and Time", oh it's all wibbly. Is the Time War (a) still "locked", and (b) how did that work exactly? My theory is that you could only travel to what history is there now (oh the mutilation of tenses with time travel), rather than, for instance, if you're the Doctor, travelling to what you knew actually happened. So the Time War is locked in that it over wrote itself from history, leaving only echoes and memories, and ephemera, such as the records of UNIT, which while still solid and real, are to all intents and purposes simply fiction.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2019 23:06:51 GMT
Just looking at the boxset average ratings on **** ******... Dark Eyes 1 - 7.9 Dark Eyes 2 - 8.2 Dark Eyes 3 - 7.6 Dark Eyes 4 - 8.3 So for the majority of people it was only the third set that let the series down a little. I must admit I found the third series very flat and dull. It almost put me off buying Series 4. Almost.
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Post by masterdoctor on Feb 3, 2019 23:38:37 GMT
I know that I'm usually in the minority when it comes to 8 in most regards, and this isn't the exception. I hated Dark Eyes and if I had started with it, I likely would have avoided Big FInish for a good while at the very least. I found Molly to be worse then if T.V. Mel and Adric had morphed into one, which was a shame as Ruth Bradley is quite a good actress. McGann sounds like he's bored out of his wits, which I find is always the case if the companion isn't Lucie, Liv, Helen or River. And even though the set was written by Nick Briggs by himself, there feels like there is no cohesion between episodes. However, after loving Doom Coalition, I went back and ordered 2-4 and holy crap was it 10 times better even when it was at its worst. Variation in writers yet all felt part of the same narrative, Molly was cut down considerably and Liv was given the spot she rightfully deserved. McQueen stuns as The Master and episodes like The Reviled, Masterplan and The Monster of Montmartre are some of my favorite 8 adventures. If it wasn't for Dark Eyes 2-4, I don't think 8 would be as enjoyable as he is right now, for me at least.
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Post by elkawho on Feb 4, 2019 1:27:45 GMT
Yeah, agree with you about McQueen in this storyline. Without Ruth Bradley there, he makes it work as much as McGann and Nicola Walker. I also would love to see him back soon. It seems this has been the year of The Master, and his abscence is definitely felt. Hmmm...Simm and McQueen, boy that's quite the over-the-top pairing. It might actually be fanstastic! Well, same box set at least. Outside of His televised appearances we can sort of assume we know where Saxon Master is. So sometime post his whatever-the-hell happened on Gallifrey on the last day of the Time War in the rooms of the High Council. Clearly the Master DIDN'T kill Rassilon, because "Hell Bent" exists, but he had his condition fixed (instability definitely, and the drumming too I suppose), and then he...gets out? How? Be interesting to find out. Then some swanning about before the events leading to "World Enough and Time", oh it's all wibbly. Is the Time War (a) still "locked", and (b) how did that work exactly? My theory is that you could only travel to what history is there now (oh the mutilation of tenses with time travel), rather than, for instance, if you're the Doctor, travelling to what you knew actually happened. So the Time War is locked in that it over wrote itself from history, leaving only echoes and memories, and ephemera, such as the records of UNIT, which while still solid and real, are to all intents and purposes simply fiction. You kind of lost me at the end of that. I don't quite get it.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2019 10:32:09 GMT
Well, same box set at least. Outside of His televised appearances we can sort of assume we know where Saxon Master is. So sometime post his whatever-the-hell happened on Gallifrey on the last day of the Time War in the rooms of the High Council. Clearly the Master DIDN'T kill Rassilon, because "Hell Bent" exists, but he had his condition fixed (instability definitely, and the drumming too I suppose), and then he...gets out? How? Be interesting to find out. Then some swanning about before the events leading to "World Enough and Time", oh it's all wibbly. Is the Time War (a) still "locked", and (b) how did that work exactly? My theory is that you could only travel to what history is there now (oh the mutilation of tenses with time travel), rather than, for instance, if you're the Doctor, travelling to what you knew actually happened. So the Time War is locked in that it over wrote itself from history, leaving only echoes and memories, and ephemera, such as the records of UNIT, which while still solid and real, are to all intents and purposes simply fiction. You kind of lost me at the end of that. I don't quite get it. I could easily be wrong, but it's like Schrödinger's Cat, right? Every permutation of history in the War is true at the same time. The cat is alive, dead and being killed all at the same time. When the Time War became locked-off, all these possibilities collapsed into a single course of events, not unlike the final combination of images on a slot machine when it's finished cycling.
If you're standing next to a tree as it's felled, you know that it was there once and gone the next. For someone who didn't see the tree cut down and arrives afterwards, there's always been a gap there. They don't feel an absence in the way that someone who knows the prior history of that forest would. The same is true for something like... Day of the Daleks, for example. That future never happened in terms of future world history, but it did happen for the Doctor and Jo as individuals. They were there before it became "untrue".
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Post by randomcomments on Feb 13, 2019 17:28:29 GMT
The biggest problem with the series, by far, is that they didn't work around Ruth Bradley's availability. I'd have gladly waited a bit longer between volumes if necessary, and the end product would have been more coherent. After the first volume, I was kinda expecting her to actually /be in the stories/ subsequently. And by the time you get to Dark Eyes 4 they've pretty conclusively made sure we can't get more stories with Molly anywhere. Nearly 10 box sets later I still haven't warmed up to Liv the same way (honestly, I have trouble distinguishing her voice from the guest cast sometimes). Given that it was obviously a joke, I was very fond of tardy-box and "THE Doctor."
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Post by elkawho on Feb 14, 2019 13:15:29 GMT
The biggest problem with the series, by far, is that they didn't work around Ruth Bradley's availability. I'd have gladly waited a bit longer between volumes if necessary, and the end product would have been more coherent. After the first volume, I was kinda expecting her to actually /be in the stories/ subsequently. And by the time you get to Dark Eyes 4 they've pretty conclusively made sure we can't get more stories with Molly anywhere. Nearly 10 box sets later I still haven't warmed up to Liv the same way (honestly, I have trouble distinguishing her voice from the guest cast sometimes). Given that it was obviously a joke, I was very fond of tardy-box and "THE Doctor." Interesting how 2 different people have 2 very different feelings about a character. I agree that it was a shame that Ruth Bradley wasn't available. Once Molly was introduced it was disappointing that her storyline wasn't allowed to develop through the boxsets. However, I never really warmed to her. I found the "tardy-box" and her attitude grating after a while. I enjoy Liv so much more, and I think Nicola Walker's voice is so distinct. As I said, interesting.
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Post by tuigirl on Feb 14, 2019 17:29:32 GMT
The biggest problem with the series, by far, is that they didn't work around Ruth Bradley's availability. I'd have gladly waited a bit longer between volumes if necessary, and the end product would have been more coherent. After the first volume, I was kinda expecting her to actually /be in the stories/ subsequently. And by the time you get to Dark Eyes 4 they've pretty conclusively made sure we can't get more stories with Molly anywhere. Nearly 10 box sets later I still haven't warmed up to Liv the same way (honestly, I have trouble distinguishing her voice from the guest cast sometimes). Given that it was obviously a joke, I was very fond of tardy-box and "THE Doctor." Interesting how 2 different people have 2 very different feelings about a character. I agree that it was a shame that Ruth Bradley wasn't available. Once Molly was introduced it was disappointing that her storyline wasn't allowed to develop through the boxsets. However, I never really warmed to her. I found the "tardy-box" and her attitude grating after a while. I enjoy Liv so much more, and I think Nicola Walker's voice is so distinct. As I said, interesting. Yes, same here. Liv is one of my favorite ever companions. Hands down.
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Post by Tim Bradley on Feb 14, 2019 17:56:01 GMT
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Dark Eyes
Feb 15, 2019 7:00:49 GMT
via mobile
Post by adamfinch on Feb 15, 2019 7:00:49 GMT
If Dark Eyes was intended as a one off how come the CDs are labelled 1.1-1.4? Rather than just 1-4? I guess there must always have been a thought it would go to a series
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Post by shallacatop on Feb 15, 2019 8:11:15 GMT
I think all the sets are like that, regardless of whether it’s a one-off or a range. It isn’t an indication of anything.
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Post by glutamodo on Feb 15, 2019 9:00:55 GMT
. Once Molly was introduced it was disappointing that her storyline wasn't allowed to develop through the boxsets. However, I never really warmed to her. I found the "tardy-box" and her attitude grating after a while. I enjoy Liv so much more, and I think Nicola Walker's voice is so distinct. As I said, interesting. As did I. Molly not being a bad character, but not a great one either. Liv on the other hand, kicks arse!
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Dark Eyes
Feb 16, 2019 13:35:50 GMT
via mobile
Post by adamfinch on Feb 16, 2019 13:35:50 GMT
I’m always glad to hear people liking Liv. Personally I find her very flat - deadpan taken to an extreme, so when in the last Ravenous set someone asked her if she could behave like an emotionless robot I nearly spat out my tea. But like I say, that’s just my take - I recognise other people love the character
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Post by constonks on Feb 24, 2019 1:37:32 GMT
For my two cents it's an entirely arbitrary line in 8's life that BF commercially chose to label as a jumping on point. I mean, I don't think it's impossible to jump on at Dark Eyes, but if you want a boxset to start with, Doom Coalition is a much better jumping on point. Sure, he's already with Liv, but there's no narrative/emotional arc carrying over from the previous episode like there is between To the Death and The Great War.
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Post by charlesuirdhein on Feb 24, 2019 17:10:48 GMT
For my two cents it's an entirely arbitrary line in 8's life that BF commercially chose to label as a jumping on point. I mean, I don't think it's impossible to jump on at Dark Eyes, but if you want a boxset to start with, Doom Coalition is a much better jumping on point. Sure, he's already with Liv, but there's no narrative/emotional arc carrying over from the previous episode like there is between To the Death and The Great War. Exactly. It isn't impossible but you aren't arriving in the middle of a story. And in media res is a tried and trusted narrative technique -- the most famous in recent history being Star Wars A New Hope -- but this isn't in media res as a technique, it's just an actual mid narrative point that you should have the earlier knowledge for.
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Post by Sir Wearer of Hats on Feb 24, 2019 21:30:33 GMT
Yeah, agree with you about McQueen in this storyline. Without Ruth Bradley there, he makes it work as much as McGann and Nicola Walker. I also would love to see him back soon. It seems this has been the year of The Master, and his abscence is definitely felt. Hmmm...Simm and McQueen, boy that's quite the over-the-top pairing. It might actually be fanstastic! Well, same box set at least. Outside of His televised appearances we can sort of assume we know where Saxon Master is. So sometime post his whatever-the-hell happened on Gallifrey on the last day of the Time War in the rooms of the High Council. Clearly the Master DIDN'T kill Rassilon, because "Hell Bent" exists, but he had his condition fixed (instability definitely, and the drumming too I suppose), and then he...gets out? How? Be interesting to find out. Then some swanning about before the events leading to "World Enough and Time", oh it's all wibbly. Is the Time War (a) still "locked", and (b) how did that work exactly? My theory is that you could only travel to what history is there now (oh the mutilation of tenses with time travel), rather than, for instance, if you're the Doctor, travelling to what you knew actually happened. So the Time War is locked in that it over wrote itself from history, leaving only echoes and memories, and ephemera, such as the records of UNIT, which while still solid and real, are to all intents and purposes simply fiction. According to one story in the Missy anthology, the Master escaped after chocking Rassilon to death with White Star Diamonds.
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Post by simon73 on Mar 14, 2019 22:26:09 GMT
I like the Irish Tardy-Box thing, so there. So do I! Haha!
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Post by Ela on Mar 21, 2019 2:39:46 GMT
I like the Irish Tardy-Box thing, so there. So do I! Haha! Thirded.
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