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Post by redsharkJason on Nov 2, 2022 4:55:06 GMT
I would much prefer having the download (and CD) prices to be reflected in pound sterling - it's simpler in terms of being pinpoint accurate. The XE.com that Big Finish utilises for their website currency conversions is around 5% less than what is actually paid when using PayPal as payment. A prior to November 1, 2022 example - A $16.99 listed Human Frontier 2 download purchase from BF on September 28, 2022 ended up costing me $17.99. PayPal conversion rate on that day hour: 1 CAD = 0.642996 GBP. 17.99 x 0.642996 = £11.57 actual payment (as stated on my bill) to Big Finish. Big Finish received 6% ($1) more thanks to XE. With the 1:1 conversion for international currency now being nixed at Big Finish, I sure as hell hope that we won't be expected to pay £21-something for a £20 priced download. Additionally - The annoyance of unnecessarily paying the 20% VAT that is no doubt included on all Big Finish products is only amplified with this latest download price increase as well. As far as I understand it. It's not above board to charge UK Value Added Tax on online sales to Canada and many other countries. I received my 12 CD Torchwood bundle this week I still have the receipt. I will check to see if we get charged VAT. Our version is GST (Goods & Services Tax) and is currently at 10%.. although everything costs so much here so the "savings" of 10% is absorbed. EDIT: I just checked and GST in NZ is 15% More telling would be is VAT identified on the bills of UK located BF customers?I don't believe there is any mention of Value Added Tax on my Canadian invoices sent from Big Finish. I'm not sure how Big Finish would be exempt from at least charging VAT onto its British countrymen. Instead of being a hidden tax. Is the 20% tax added on top of a UK resident purchase at BF checkout? Or, am I completely wrong and Big Finish does not charge its international (and UK) customers VAT?
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Post by Star Platinum on Nov 2, 2022 6:19:47 GMT
I happened to have my receipt from the bbc audiobook sale back in June, and it looks like there was a VAT of £0.99. No mention of Ontario’s hst.
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Post by cjr on Nov 2, 2022 6:56:24 GMT
Also interesting to look at the announcement from October 31st and compare it to the March 2019 announcement (p1 of this thread). So for 3.5 years +, Big Finish have had an increasing number of UK shoppers “rort” the system? 👏 👏 Really?
In future I’ll be waiting for exceptional sales.
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Post by shallacatop on Nov 2, 2022 7:25:05 GMT
Also interesting to look at the announcement from October 31st and compare it to the March 2019 announcement (p1 of this thread). So for 3.5 years +, Big Finish have had an increasing number of UK shoppers “rort” the system? 👏 👏 Really? In future I’ll be waiting for exceptional sales. The two announcements aren’t dissimilar. It’s a copy and paste job with added references to the cost of living and amendments to the date. The line about an increasing minority of UK fans is there in 2019, so all they’ve done is continue to allow it happen or made it worse by mentioning it. I can’t say I blame anyone doing it, especially when your UK based purchases are coming out at double the cost. It’d make their DL only prices more reasonable if nothing else.
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Post by aussiedoctorwhofan on Nov 2, 2022 7:35:46 GMT
I received my 12 CD Torchwood bundle this week I still have the receipt. I will check to see if we get charged VAT. Our version is GST (Goods & Services Tax) and is currently at 10%.. although everything costs so much here so the "savings" of 10% is absorbed. EDIT: I just checked and GST in NZ is 15% More telling would be is VAT identified on the bills of UK located BF customers?I don't believe there is any mention of Value Added Tax on my Canadian invoices sent from Big Finish. I'm not sure how Big Finish would be exempt from at least charging VAT onto its British countrymen. Instead of being a hidden tax. Is the 20% tax added on top of a UK resident purchase at BF checkout? Or, am I completely wrong and Big Finish does not charge its international (and UK) customers VAT? Ok.. I am checking my receipt from my bundle Torchwood #49 to $60.
Against all 12 cds it says "VAT" then "Z" .. at the bottom "VAT TOTAL: $0.00" Sorry I don't have a pound symbol on my home keyboard.
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Post by tuigirl on Nov 2, 2022 8:02:00 GMT
I received my 12 CD Torchwood bundle this week I still have the receipt. I will check to see if we get charged VAT. Our version is GST (Goods & Services Tax) and is currently at 10%.. although everything costs so much here so the "savings" of 10% is absorbed. EDIT: I just checked and GST in NZ is 15% More telling would be is VAT identified on the bills of UK located BF customers?I don't believe there is any mention of Value Added Tax on my Canadian invoices sent from Big Finish. I'm not sure how Big Finish would be exempt from at least charging VAT onto its British countrymen. Instead of being a hidden tax. Is the 20% tax added on top of a UK resident purchase at BF checkout? Or, am I completely wrong and Big Finish does not charge its international (and UK) customers VAT? I am most definitively always charged VAT. I am paying via PayPal, and Paypal always shows me the German VAT of 19%.
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Post by tuigirl on Nov 2, 2022 8:14:59 GMT
This is how it looks to me right now. Euro Zone. UNIT previously was 19.99 Euro and the three part box sets (like for 7 and 8) were 16.50 Euro. So yes, price increase, but I am not the worst hit.
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lidar2
Castellan
You know, now that you mention it, I actually do rather like Attack of the Cybermen ...
Likes: 5,819
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Post by lidar2 on Nov 2, 2022 9:26:10 GMT
Would it not be simpler for BF to price downloads in £ only and let customers' credit cards / paypal handle the currency conversion? I have bought stuff in other currencies using my UK credit card and the card converts it to the £ price I see on my bill. From a website development/maintenance point of view I'd have thought that would be simpler too They have always charged you in GBP, regardless of the currency shown on the website. This would mean I was always charged slightly more than the price listed on the website.* But I rationalised this when I found out I was paying half what the U.K. customers were paying (I'm in NZ). However, not only have the prices almost doubled (UNIT Nemesis 3 is 39.27NZD) but I have just taken an item through to the checkout and we are still charged in GBP meaning we will still pay a slightly-higher price than is listed. *For example, Kaleidoscope was listed for 16.99NZD, charged 8.59GBP and paid 17.43NZD excl. bank conversion fee. Fair enough, I didn't know that having only ever bought in £ from the UK. Even allowing for what you say, then syrely it would be better for them to list all prices in GBP (inc & exc VAT as required) and then let the customer worry about the FX conversion. That way BF would be washing their hands of the whole currency issue.
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Post by mark687 on Nov 2, 2022 10:31:43 GMT
I received my 12 CD Torchwood bundle this week I still have the receipt. I will check to see if we get charged VAT. Our version is GST (Goods & Services Tax) and is currently at 10%.. although everything costs so much here so the "savings" of 10% is absorbed. EDIT: I just checked and GST in NZ is 15% More telling would be is VAT identified on the bills of UK located BF customers?I don't believe there is any mention of Value Added Tax on my Canadian invoices sent from Big Finish. I'm not sure how Big Finish would be exempt from at least charging VAT onto its British countrymen. Instead of being a hidden tax. Is the 20% tax added on top of a UK resident purchase at BF checkout? Or, am I completely wrong and Big Finish does not charge its international (and UK) customers VAT? UK VAT is 20% of the Total Purchase Cost and was historically printed on the bill. Regards mark687
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lidar2
Castellan
You know, now that you mention it, I actually do rather like Attack of the Cybermen ...
Likes: 5,819
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Post by lidar2 on Nov 2, 2022 10:56:44 GMT
More telling would be is VAT identified on the bills of UK located BF customers?I don't believe there is any mention of Value Added Tax on my Canadian invoices sent from Big Finish. I'm not sure how Big Finish would be exempt from at least charging VAT onto its British countrymen. Instead of being a hidden tax. Is the 20% tax added on top of a UK resident purchase at BF checkout? Or, am I completely wrong and Big Finish does not charge its international (and UK) customers VAT? UK VAT is 20% of the Total Purchase Cost and was historically printed on the bill. Regards mark687 To be pedantic, it is 20% of the Net (excl. VAT) cost, but 16.67% of total (gross) purchase cost. Example: Net £100 VAT £20 Gross £120 VAT is 20% of the Net but only 16.67% of the Gross
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Post by aussiedoctorwhofan on Nov 4, 2022 9:49:32 GMT
Just randomly checked "The Prisoner" vol 1 . it's now AUST $61.85 for digital only as physical is sold out (lucky I have all 3)..
I definitely didn't pay that much for my physical cd copies.
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Post by Kestrel on Nov 6, 2022 0:24:41 GMT
Odd that the 10% discount does not apply to pre-orders. Yet one more thing that's gonna force me to cut back on how much I buy.
I did see an interesting thread on Twitter a few days ago (sorry, I didn't save the link) talking about.... oh, I forget the term, but basically how consumer trust in a product or service can just immediately evaporate. It was in the context of **** ****'s first few days as the site's new owner (what a train wreck that's been) but I think it's broadly applicable, including to Big Finish.
The long and short of it is that consumers will only be willing to tolerate so many anti-consumer moves before they suddenly decide a product is no longer worth the hassle, and abandon it en mass. A kind of cascade effect. Just because a company doesn't lose costumers after one price hike does not mean they'll accept another. Eventually things will go too far and they'll lose trust in the company, and once that's gone, there's no getting it back.
And I feel like Big Finish has made a lot of changes just in the past two years I've been following them, pretty much all of which make their product less attractive. Eventually they're gonna reach a tipping point, I think, if they haven't already.
Just speaking for myself, I estimate I'll have to cut my purchasing in half (at least). No more impulse buys, no more pre-orders, no more solitary purchases. I don't even think I can recommend Big Finish audios to potential new fans in good conscience any more, nor am I able to condemn piracy, even half-heartedly, as I once did.
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Post by timleschild on Nov 6, 2022 0:36:17 GMT
Odd that the 10% discount does not apply to pre-orders. Yet one more thing that's gonna force me to cut back on how much I buy. I did see an interesting thread on Twitter a few days ago (sorry, I didn't save the link) talking about.... oh, I forget the term, but basically how consumer trust in a product or service can just immediately evaporate. It was in the context of **** ****'s first few days as the site's new owner (what a train wreck that's been) but I think it's broadly applicable, including to Big Finish. The long and short of it is that consumers will only be willing to tolerate so many anti-consumer moves before they suddenly decide a product is no longer worth the hassle, and abandon it en mass. A kind of cascade effect. Just because a company doesn't lose costumers after one price hike does not mean they'll accept another. Eventually things will go too far and they'll lose trust in the company, and once that's gone, there's no getting it back. And I feel like Big Finish has made a lot of changes just in the past two years I've been following them, pretty much all of which make their product less attractive. Eventually they're gonna reach a tipping point, I think, if they haven't already. Just speaking for myself, I estimate I'll have to cut my purchasing in half (at least). No more impulse buys, no more pre-orders, no more solitary purchases. I don't even think I can recommend Big Finish audios to potential new fans in good conscience any more, nor am I able to condemn piracy, even half-heartedly, as I once did. I agree sadly. I do think BF rely on the good will of fans, of the fact that they'll always have those fans because they love Doctor Who. But good will has breaking point.
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Post by theillusiveman on Nov 6, 2022 1:49:07 GMT
Odd that the 10% discount does not apply to pre-orders. Yet one more thing that's gonna force me to cut back on how much I buy. I did see an interesting thread on Twitter a few days ago (sorry, I didn't save the link) talking about.... oh, I forget the term, but basically how consumer trust in a product or service can just immediately evaporate. It was in the context of **** ****'s first few days as the site's new owner (what a train wreck that's been) but I think it's broadly applicable, including to Big Finish. The long and short of it is that consumers will only be willing to tolerate so many anti-consumer moves before they suddenly decide a product is no longer worth the hassle, and abandon it en mass. A kind of cascade effect. Just because a company doesn't lose costumers after one price hike does not mean they'll accept another. Eventually things will go too far and they'll lose trust in the company, and once that's gone, there's no getting it back. And I feel like Big Finish has made a lot of changes just in the past two years I've been following them, pretty much all of which make their product less attractive. Eventually they're gonna reach a tipping point, I think, if they haven't already. Just speaking for myself, I estimate I'll have to cut my purchasing in half (at least). No more impulse buys, no more pre-orders, no more solitary purchases. I don't even think I can recommend Big Finish audios to potential new fans in good conscience any more, nor am I able to condemn piracy, even half-heartedly, as I once did. Don’t know why you had to censor Elon Musks name but whatever But yeah agree that big finish has survived for a long time on the goodwill of the fans continue buying their products I honestly feel that big finish lately has honestly pissed off alot of customers and I wonder if they will be feeling the heat in the couple of months
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Post by Kestrel on Nov 6, 2022 2:22:43 GMT
I self-censored out of respect for the countless people who would prefer not to hear about him.
But, yeah, I can't imagine what Big Finish is thinking. Presumably they *ought* to be selling more audios to a larger audience than ever before, now that they're doing flashier marketing and have got big, high-profile hooks like Eccleston and Tennant reprising their roles. But they're certainly acting as though they're failing to attract any new customers and have no choice but to milk their most dedicated fans for as much as possible.
I can't help but wonder -- having seen several other media companies implode similarly -- whether or not they made some really poor investments that they're now desperate to recoup.
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Post by tuigirl on Nov 6, 2022 8:41:45 GMT
Odd that the 10% discount does not apply to pre-orders. Yet one more thing that's gonna force me to cut back on how much I buy. I did see an interesting thread on Twitter a few days ago (sorry, I didn't save the link) talking about.... oh, I forget the term, but basically how consumer trust in a product or service can just immediately evaporate. It was in the context of **** ****'s first few days as the site's new owner (what a train wreck that's been) but I think it's broadly applicable, including to Big Finish. The long and short of it is that consumers will only be willing to tolerate so many anti-consumer moves before they suddenly decide a product is no longer worth the hassle, and abandon it en mass. A kind of cascade effect. Just because a company doesn't lose costumers after one price hike does not mean they'll accept another. Eventually things will go too far and they'll lose trust in the company, and once that's gone, there's no getting it back. And I feel like Big Finish has made a lot of changes just in the past two years I've been following them, pretty much all of which make their product less attractive. Eventually they're gonna reach a tipping point, I think, if they haven't already. Just speaking for myself, I estimate I'll have to cut my purchasing in half (at least). No more impulse buys, no more pre-orders, no more solitary purchases. I don't even think I can recommend Big Finish audios to potential new fans in good conscience any more, nor am I able to condemn piracy, even half-heartedly, as I once did. Yes, in the same boat. And that is sad, really. If even we die hard fans cannot recommend it to other fans anymore.... then this is a alarm sign. And I just cannot justify spending large amounts of money for something with increasing smaller returns. BF has now gone the way of Games Workshop for me- I am a huge Warhammer fan, but the cost is forbidding and I now first search eBay for used stuff then buy new. All that is lost revenue. And BF will notice it. They will also notice if word of mouth is missing. They relied on it quite heavily. But I just cannot find the arguments anymore to justify the company. I will only say- if you buy, never ever buy outside a sale. Never buy spontaneously. Always wait for a sale.
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Post by aussiedoctorwhofan on Nov 6, 2022 8:55:54 GMT
if you buy, never ever buy outside a sale. Never buy spontaneously. Always wait for a sale.
THIS ^ ...
Unfortunately yes.
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Post by Kestrel on Nov 6, 2022 16:20:34 GMT
If even we die hard fans cannot recommend it to other fans anymore.... then this is a alarm sign. It occurs to me that we may have already passed this point last year. I got into Big Finish in early/mid 2020, near the beginning of the Pandemic. There was a lot of fan chatter on Twitter, Reddit and Discord pointing me at the best stories, and I had over a hundred recommended releases on my shortlist before I knew it. It's possible, perhaps probable, that this "boom" in collective interest (or at least what I perceived as a boom) was mostly the result of people being stuck inside during the early lockdown and starved for new media, coupled by a desire for "better" Doctor Who media in the wake of that whole Timeless Child hullabaloo. And if so, perhaps it is only natural that interest eventually declined. But I can't help but notice that, in the past year, I see fewer and fewer people talking about Big Finish in the fandom spaces I operate in, or that when I DO see people discussing Big Finish with potential fans, the suggestions rarely point them in the more esoteric directions I was flung off into (seriously, thank you so much whoever recommended Gallifrey to me way back when)... instead, it's almost always and only the free stuff available on Spotify. It's pretty goddamned hard to recommend people try out even the best boxsets when the digital-only copy of a 3-episode Dalek Universe set costs more than a blu-ray of David Tennant's entire era.And I don't know to what extent it's appropriate to get into it here, but with regard to pirating Big Finish audios? Attitudes have shifted a lot in the past year. From open discouragement to (at best) apathy.
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Post by tuigirl on Nov 6, 2022 17:52:42 GMT
If even we die hard fans cannot recommend it to other fans anymore.... then this is a alarm sign. It occurs to me that we may have already passed this point last year. I got into Big Finish in early/mid 2020, near the beginning of the Pandemic. There was a lot of fan chatter on Twitter, Reddit and Discord pointing me at the best stories, and I had over a hundred recommended releases on my shortlist before I knew it. It's possible, perhaps probable, that this "boom" in collective interest (or at least what I perceived as a boom) was mostly the result of people being stuck inside during the early lockdown and starved for new media, coupled by a desire for "better" Doctor Who media in the wake of that whole Timeless Child hullabaloo. And if so, perhaps it is only natural that interest eventually declined. But I can't help but notice that, in the past year, I see fewer and fewer people talking about Big Finish in the fandom spaces I operate in, or that when I DO see people discussing Big Finish with potential fans, the suggestions rarely point them in the more esoteric directions I was flung off into (seriously, thank you so much whoever recommended Gallifrey to me way back when)... instead, it's almost always and only the free stuff available on Spotify. It's pretty goddamned hard to recommend people try out even the best boxsets when the digital-only copy of a 3-episode Dalek Universe set costs more than a blu-ray of David Tennant's entire era.And I don't know to what extent it's appropriate to get into it here, but with regard to pirating Big Finish audios? Attitudes have shifted a lot in the past year. From open discouragement to (at best) apathy. Well, there was definitely interest there at the German Who convention and people were disappointed that BF did not attend anymore with their shop. We brought along extra money in case they turned up, but sadly Brexit and you know... just did not happen. The actors also did advertising for BF, however, you also had critical voices like Frazer who is very unhappy how his 2 nd Doctor had been dropped. That definitely could have been handled better, but by now, we all know about the communication skills of BF. My friends definitely are very much into BF, even spending more(!!!) money than I do because they are CD customers and will have the CDs shipped to them from the UK. Not a cheap hobby! I spend enough money as is with download only! Some people even look at me in a weird way because of download only, but to be honest, I have also other interests and hobbies and one also needs to eat, so sorry if I am not a „real“ fan because I am not a CD physical copy snob. So no, in my direct environment and from meeting other fans at the convention I cannot say I made the the experience. There was still keen interest, we had lots of exited chats about the new releases and I was absolutely gushing with excitement when I saw Colin and thanked him for his continued enthusiasm and participation. But I met some new fans, who asked me about BF and if I had some suggestions on what to buy, and I told them definitely to wait for sales. And I warned them of the prices. And this was BEFORE the Price hike! Funny you mention the dislike for the Jodie era- this is a definite issue here, too. People were actively leaving the room when the actress for Yaz‘ sister came on stage, and in panels, the word BF as the „ only real“ Who also appeared. I am not exactly a fan of the Chibnall era, but I find this still distasteful and also disrespectful. This was even topic at one of the discussion panels where they discussed with some of the actors „ new“ vs. „ old“ who. Even with the vs. in the panel title. Luckily my friends are like me and open to anything- one of them even a huge fan. But of course this is an entirely different place like the online environment- so I think your observations have merit. I am just not part of many other online communities because of lack of time and zero patience for toxic behavior anymore. So I am missing that part of the picture.
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Post by Digi on Nov 6, 2022 18:02:41 GMT
It's pretty goddamned hard to recommend people try out even the best boxsets when the digital-only copy of a 3-episode Dalek Universe set costs more than a blu-ray of David Tennant's entire era. Yuuuup. I appreciate that from a business perspective, these things are apples and oranges. But from a consumer point of view--the point of view that actually matters if you want to keep your business afloat?
$53 for 47 hours of high-def BD TV that engages eyes and ears, has actual VFX, etc + includes extensive bonus features [current price of the Tennant complete set on Amazon Canada] vs $46 for just 3 hours of audio-only stories + 1 hour of (let's be honest) shallow/surface-level chats with 2 or 3 actors and maybe a minute or two with the writer and director [current price of Dalek Universe 3 on the BF website]
From a dollars and cents "what's gonna give me the most bang for my buck" POV, that's no choice at all.
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