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Post by Sir Wearer of Hats on Aug 25, 2020 3:12:48 GMT
Is it just me or is the Doctor a right arse in this one to Susan about Alex’s death? He’s very “but what about ME?! what about MY FEELINGS!” when talking to the murdered boy’s mother.
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Post by tuigirl on Aug 25, 2020 7:36:49 GMT
Is it just me or is the Doctor a right arse in this one to Susan about Alex’s death? He’s very “but what about ME?! what about MY FEELINGS!” when talking to the murdered boy’s mother. Hmm.... I think it is pretty true to form for 8 and his lacking social skills.
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Post by theillusiveman on Aug 25, 2020 12:23:44 GMT
Is it just me or is the Doctor a right arse in this one to Susan about Alex’s death? He’s very “but what about ME?! what about MY FEELINGS!” when talking to the murdered boy’s mother. Nope you arent alone i was pretty much disgusted by that moment and how it kinda spits on To The Death.
pretty much the only scene i didnt like about the episode considering the rest was pretty good
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Post by Kestrel on Sept 24, 2020 6:06:45 GMT
Don't mind me, just skimming through this thread to see what folks thought of Susan's War to see if I ought to buy the set myself... unsurprisingly, turns out I do, but before I listen I did want to jump in and comment on something real quick.... {Spoiler}Maybe it is part of Time Lord training since they are near immortal and dealing with death and loss will be their curse? There must be self-help classes about this at academy, since you cannot have a caste of near immortals going mad from grief on a regular basis. Oh I like that! ...I don't think it's a Time Lord thing, I think it's a time traveler thing. I recently listened through the MR's "Hex arc" for the 7th Doctor, and McCoy delivers a fantastic line when a companion questions his grief (and the seeming absence of grief) for a recently-deceased character. I wish I could quote it exactly, but in summary the Doctor says that, to him, no one is ever really dead. "They're All alive out there, somewhere." He can always pop into the TARDIS and travel to when and where someone is alive and well and happy--and likewise he can pop into the TARDIS and emerge at a time and place where they are dead and forgotten and not even atoms exist. it was a curious, heartbreaking sentiment. The Doctor's unique relationship to time necessitates an equally unique relationship to death. After all, death and time are much the same thing. It leads me to think that much of the Doctor's alien nature isn't due to him being a literal alien, but rather because that's simply the kind of person time travel turns you into. Which also somewhat explains why Time Lord villains are so common--and so grotesquely amoral. A time traveler is incapable of murder, because everyone they will ever meet is already dead.
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Post by tuigirl on Sept 24, 2020 7:41:59 GMT
Don't mind me, just skimming through this thread to see what folks thought of Susan's War to see if I ought to buy the set myself... unsurprisingly, turns out I do, but before I listen I did want to jump in and comment on something real quick.... ...I don't think it's a Time Lord thing, I think it's a time traveler thing. I recently listened through the MR's "Hex arc" for the 7th Doctor, and McCoy delivers a fantastic line when a companion questions his grief (and the seeming absence of grief) for a recently-deceased character. I wish I could quote it exactly, but in summary the Doctor says that, to him, no one is ever really dead. "They're All alive out there, somewhere." He can always pop into the TARDIS and travel to when and where someone is alive and well and happy--and likewise he can pop into the TARDIS and emerge at a time and place where they are dead and forgotten and not even atoms exist. it was a curious, heartbreaking sentiment. The Doctor's unique relationship to time necessitates an equally unique relationship to death. After all, death and time are much the same thing. It leads me to think that much of the Doctor's alien nature isn't due to him being a literal alien, but rather because that's simply the kind of person time travel turns you into. Which also somewhat explains why Time Lord villains are so common--and so grotesquely amoral. A time traveler is incapable of murder, because everyone they will ever meet is already dead.You might be right. They still will have classes at academy about that type of thing, though. Not everyone is a born natural.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2020 7:46:50 GMT
Don't mind me, just skimming through this thread to see what folks thought of Susan's War to see if I ought to buy the set myself... unsurprisingly, turns out I do, but before I listen I did want to jump in and comment on something real quick.... ...I don't think it's a Time Lord thing, I think it's a time traveler thing. I recently listened through the MR's "Hex arc" for the 7th Doctor, and McCoy delivers a fantastic line when a companion questions his grief (and the seeming absence of grief) for a recently-deceased character. I wish I could quote it exactly, but in summary the Doctor says that, to him, no one is ever really dead. "They're All alive out there, somewhere." He can always pop into the TARDIS and travel to when and where someone is alive and well and happy--and likewise he can pop into the TARDIS and emerge at a time and place where they are dead and forgotten and not even atoms exist. it was a curious, heartbreaking sentiment. The Doctor's unique relationship to time necessitates an equally unique relationship to death. After all, death and time are much the same thing. It leads me to think that much of the Doctor's alien nature isn't due to him being a literal alien, but rather because that's simply the kind of person time travel turns you into. Which also somewhat explains why Time Lord villains are so common--and so grotesquely amoral. A time traveler is incapable of murder, because everyone they will ever meet is already dead.You might be right. They still will have classes at academy about that type of thing, though. Not everyone is a born natural. Or born naturally-did anyone say LOOMs 😜
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2020 8:58:23 GMT
Don't mind me, just skimming through this thread to see what folks thought of Susan's War to see if I ought to buy the set myself... unsurprisingly, turns out I do, but before I listen I did want to jump in and comment on something real quick.... ...I don't think it's a Time Lord thing, I think it's a time traveler thing. I recently listened through the MR's "Hex arc" for the 7th Doctor, and McCoy delivers a fantastic line when a companion questions his grief (and the seeming absence of grief) for a recently-deceased character. I wish I could quote it exactly, but in summary the Doctor says that, to him, no one is ever really dead. "They're All alive out there, somewhere." He can always pop into the TARDIS and travel to when and where someone is alive and well and happy--and likewise he can pop into the TARDIS and emerge at a time and place where they are dead and forgotten and not even atoms exist. it was a curious, heartbreaking sentiment. The Doctor's unique relationship to time necessitates an equally unique relationship to death. After all, death and time are much the same thing. It leads me to think that much of the Doctor's alien nature isn't due to him being a literal alien, but rather because that's simply the kind of person time travel turns you into. Which also somewhat explains why Time Lord villains are so common--and so grotesquely amoral. A time traveler is incapable of murder, because everyone they will ever meet is already dead.You might be right. They still will have classes at academy about that type of thing, though. Not everyone is a born natural. There might be something to that. You know, I just remembered something... When the Doctor tells Borusa that he should care more about the war in The Invasion of Time, Borusa instructs his former pupil to remember his training in detachment. Maybe the Time Lords specifically are taught how to separate themselves emotionally, as well as intellectually, from the passage of history. Otherwise, you become like Astrolabus who saw the whole of Time and went mad trying to map it all out or any of a vast multitude of human time travellers who had the power, but not the ability to address (or even process) the consequences of changing history for personal gains. After all, messing around in space and time is a dangerous thing. Not only because -- under particular circumstances -- history can be altered, but also, history fights back. The people within it have their own agency and their own drives and ambitions. As a visitor, they have the home field advantage (the wisdom of a resident vs. the knowledge of a tourist) and they're usually not worried about all the past/present/future. From their perspective, they're only worried about the present. The now. Which raises an interesting question about anyone travelling around in time and space, and their perspective on what constitutes home. Voyage for long enough... Is it the existence of a single place? A single time? A handful of people? Or is it more alien than that, a particular sequence of events that feel homely and comfortable?
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Post by Kestrel on Sept 25, 2020 10:51:35 GMT
So... to bring up half-remembered details from the early Gallifrey range... IIRC there were several lines of dialog that indicated time travel was fairly rare. EG relatively high-level time lords with few TARDIS voyages under their belts, some Time Lords with zero TARDIS voyages. Given the sanctity of the "laws of time" and their overall policy of nonintervention throughout most of history, it may be safe to say that for the Time Lords of Gallifrey, time travel is rather rare.
Classes on objectivity and detachment would absolutely be essential for Time Lords who only ever go on a handful of TARDIS excursions, to observe key historical events without interfering, or CIA operatives tasked with making small, specific alterations to the timeline.
So if we pair that with my previously-theorized wearing-down process, I think a lot of Gallifreyan history comes into focus. Much of the worst atrocities in Time Lord history occur in the early days--the age of Rassilon, when time travel was a new invention and therefore used with much greater frequency; and, of course, the time war. I kind of like this idea: it wasn't the war that corrupted the Time Lords, but the time part of Time War. In other words, what brought the To e Lords down to the same level as the Daleks was less the extenuating, relatively common circumstance of prolonged conflict... but the means by which they fought.
In other words, a TARDIS is a sword that cuts both ways--the more one uses it to manipulate "the web of time," the more one's perspective or reality is irreversibly warped.
Now the really cool thing here, to me at least, is that this train of thought also leads to a rather satisfying conclusion on what, specifically, makes the Doctor special. Unique. Better than his fellow Time Lords. A d that difference is simply that the Doctor never succumbs to an objective viewpoint: he always exists in the immediate present. Which I think is supported by much of the writing in many of the stories throughout the franchise: this is a person who will pontificate about the theoretical necessity of not altering time, but will never consider the potential ramifications of their actions when standing beside a person who needs help.
Where is the Doctor's "home?" The one time and place where he belongs? Simple: wherever his feet happen to land. And perhaps what makes the Master so dangerous is that he lacks that tether, that grounding, to an immediate reality.
(So a quick note on pronouns... I tend to use whatever I think best fits a given context. As this context was mostly about the Time War and before, I went with he/him, and tend to likewise use masculine pronouns when discussing the Doctor if I'm referring to specific incarnations or ranges of incarnations... I hope this does not offend. My general approach is to only use the neutral pronouns for general statements about a Time Lord's "total" being... if that makes any sense. Or at least those are my thoughts today.)
On a random, tangentially-related note, I doubt it would properly line up with the continuity, and I personally hope it doesn't, but I have so,etc es theorized that Gallifrey itself is time-locked to prevent Time travel to it, and to bar time travelers from entry. Star Trek has some handy technobabble (chronitons?) that allows time-travelers to be recognized, so perhaps Gallifrey has something similar, and only those with a matching "present" times tre a can penetrate Time Lord territory... AND that present just so happens to coincide with the IRL time. EG the Time War itself was fought over a period of about a decade in Gallifrey "present" from the mid-1990s to 2005.
I don't like it, and doubt it works with the established continuity, but it seemed relevant, so I thought I'd mention it.
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Post by Digi on Sept 25, 2020 16:15:20 GMT
On a random, tangentially-related note, I doubt it would properly line up with the continuity, and I personally hope it doesn't, but I have so,etc es theorized that Gallifrey itself is time-locked to prevent Time travel to it, and to bar time travelers from entry. Star Trek has some handy technobabble (chronitons?) that allows time-travelers to be recognized, so perhaps Gallifrey has something similar, and only those with a matching "present" times tre a can penetrate Time Lord territory... AND that present just so happens to coincide with the IRL time. EG the Time War itself was fought over a period of about a decade in Gallifrey "present" from the mid-1990s to 2005. I don't like it, and doubt it works with the established continuity, but it seemed relevant, so I thought I'd mention it. Well, at least according to the War Doctor novel Engines of War, the conflict went on for at least four centuries from the POV of the belligerents. Whether or not Big Finish accommodates novels is a bit of an open question (especially in this case, as Nick did the audiobook version's reading), but even if you put it completely aside, I don't think Earth--a non-temporal power--should be the yardstick by which the duration of the war is measured. Separately on your other thought here, my operating theory has always been that TARDISes and their Time Lords are 'tethered' through the Eye of Harmony back to Gallifrey. So if I leave Gallifrey aboard a TARDIS in Gallifrey Year 10, travel the universe for 200 years from my own POV, and then return to Gallifrey, I cannot return to Gallifrey Year 10, I'll arrive in Gallifrey Year 210.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 26, 2020 1:39:07 GMT
On a random, tangentially-related note, I doubt it would properly line up with the continuity, and I personally hope it doesn't, but I have so,etc es theorized that Gallifrey itself is time-locked to prevent Time travel to it, and to bar time travelers from entry. Star Trek has some handy technobabble (chronitons?) that allows time-travelers to be recognized, so perhaps Gallifrey has something similar, and only those with a matching "present" times tre a can penetrate Time Lord territory... AND that present just so happens to coincide with the IRL time. EG the Time War itself was fought over a period of about a decade in Gallifrey "present" from the mid-1990s to 2005. I don't like it, and doubt it works with the established continuity, but it seemed relevant, so I thought I'd mention it. Well, at least according to the War Doctor novel Engines of War, the conflict went on for at least four centuries from the POV of the belligerents. Whether or not Big Finish accommodates novels is a bit of an open question (especially in this case, as Nick did the audiobook version's reading), but even if you put it completely aside, I don't think Earth--a non-temporal power--should be the yardstick by which the duration of the war is measured. Separately on your other thought here, my operating theory has always been that TARDISes and their Time Lords are 'tethered' through the Eye of Harmony back to Gallifrey. So if I leave Gallifrey aboard a TARDIS in Gallifrey Year 10, travel the universe for 200 years from my own POV, and then return to Gallifrey, I cannot return to Gallifrey Year 10, I'll arrive in Gallifrey Year 210.Can confirm. There is a mechanism in place called a Backtime Buffer which prevents time travel to Gallifrey's founding past. Mainly, to prevent accidents or deliberate attacks on their history. That said, a rickety old Type 40 -- with faulty circuits and in desperate need of a major overhaul -- has made that journey before by some centuries. Both into the past and the future. From the times I can remember, each journey being made without the pilot's active consent or knowledge. To travel into Gallifrey's past is considered a capital offence and punishable through some pretty permanent means (if anyone were to find out). [...] Now the really cool thing here, to me at least, is that this train of thought also leads to a rather satisfying conclusion on what, specifically, makes the Doctor special. Unique. Better than his fellow Time Lords. And that difference is simply that the Doctor never succumbs to an objective viewpoint: he always exists in the immediate present. Which I think is supported by much of the writing in many of the stories throughout the franchise: this is a person who will pontificate about the theoretical necessity of not altering time, but will never consider the potential ramifications of their actions when standing beside a person who needs help. One of the best of those comes from the novelisation for The Massacre. In that story, the Doctor insists that he is a fatalist. Not by choice, but by the weight of experience. However much he wants to interfere, he knows that there is often too much working against him to make a difference. When he does, the results are often disastrous and demoralising 1. When push comes to shove, though, he is still the one that shouts to Admiral de Coligny (" Admiral!") from the doorway when the assassin fires his shot. As intended, de Coligny is hit. The bullet tears right through his torso. However, because of the Doctor's intervention -- the Admiral doesn't die from it. He was turned in such a way to seek out the source of the cry that it missed any vital organs. The man would get the opportunity to live. As the escaping Doctor says, "I feel rather better for that." ( 1 - And looking at it with what we know now, the more the Doctor actively interferes, the bigger the footprint he leaves for the Time Lords and the easier it becomes for them to track him down.)
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Post by Kestrel on Jan 7, 2021 7:36:37 GMT
Me, seeing I've already posted in this thread (multiple time): huh. So, anyway, it took me a bit but I've finally started listening to Susan's War! I put this one off for a bit, because I wasn't really sure what to expect. Fortunately I've found myself enjoying the set far more than I thought I would, even though I'm only presently at the halfway mark. Susan is a character that I've always been a bit iffy on... I absolutely lover the character as a concept, but in execution? Not so much. She's absolutely brilliant as this strange, uncanny presence in the series pilot, but immediately after that story she transforms into a shrieking damsel. And while I do quite enjoy the 1DAs, I can't exactly say they've done much to improve Susan's character--she's definitely the weakest member of the cast, and seems to function mostly as a tool to either deliver exposition herself, prompt exposition from others, or be damselized. This Time War set has done wonders to rehabilitate the character in my eyes (something which began, I know, in the preceding 8DAs) and has even gone so far as to improve Ian beyond the 1960s boy wonder, asexual action figure he was in the TV show. Taking these classic characters and reimagining them in new contexts, at vastly different periods in their lives, creates a new context for them that is immediately compelling. I don't know if Susan's War was intended to be a one-off special release, or a new range, but I definitely hope it's the latter: she works fantastically well as a diplomat/spy, and I want to see more of her like this. So: Susan's War 2 when? My only complaint thus far is that there's this moment in the first story where they explain just what, exactly, the Time War is to the sensorites... and the way they describe it, it's just a conventional war. That's wrong! I think there was the line, "Then in the course of history, you are the aggressors." Except the Time War is a time war. Why does everyone keep forgetting this? They're literally incapable of knowing who started the war, because the chain of causality of constantly changing. This story posits that the Time Lords initiated hostilities by sending the 4th Doctor back in time to prevent the Daleks from being created, and that the Daleks only went to war with the Time Lords because of this, but that would necessarily mean that the Daleks had been at war with the Time Lords since before their own inception--it's a closed loop. The Time Lords attacked the Daleks because the Daleks threatened the Time Lords, and the Daleks threatened the Time Lords because the Time Lords attacked the Daleks. This is a war where, by definition, their can be no aggressor: if any one side had acted first, the other side would not exist. Separately on your other thought here, my operating theory has always been that TARDISes and their Time Lords are 'tethered' through the Eye of Harmony back to Gallifrey. So if I leave Gallifrey aboard a TARDIS in Gallifrey Year 10, travel the universe for 200 years from my own POV, and then return to Gallifrey, I cannot return to Gallifrey Year 10, I'll arrive in Gallifrey Year 210. This makes a lot of sense. The first story hinges on this idea that the "Eye or Harmony" in each TARDIS is just a fragment of the "real" Eye of Harmony on Gallifrey, creating a kind of network, which would mean that, in a sense, ever TARDIS is a part of Gallifrey, and would be affected by anything that happens on the planet. It did make me wonder how the Doctor could ever think Gallifrey was destroyed, if his TARDIS was till capable of functioning normally, but we all know how Doctor Who feels about continuity. And it's not like it wouldn't be easy to handwave by saying that The Moment applied some kind of perception filter to the Doctor's mind.
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Post by Kestrel on Jan 10, 2021 7:31:04 GMT
After finishing this set, my very high opinion remains... very high. Holy carp, this was fantastic! I need more. Is there any news of a Susan's War 2 yet? She's so good--this range affords them the perfect opportunity to tell "peripheral" Time War stories: and Susan works so well as a diplomat and/or spy. That said: they need a new theme. I love the Time War theme music, but it doesn't really fit these stories. It's very evocative of "the heart of the storm," which is perfect for the 8th Doctor and War Doctor, especially, stories... but doesn't really fit the small-scale stuff Susan is up to here. Regarding Assets of War: - Susan's Time Lord boss just... doesn't seem to have to gravitas the role requires. Maybe I'm just missing Ollistra here.
- I love how they touch on the fact that Gallifrey's culture is shifting. I was pretty young back in 2001, but I can still remember how quickly American culture changed once we were "at war." It's interesting to see the same thing happen to Gallifrey--the Doctor, who was once something of a folk hero, is now being villified. I'd definitely love to see more of this in future sets--the "home front," but from a much more down-to-earth perspective, opposed to the ivory towers of Romana, Brax, Narvin & co. in the Gallifrey range.
- Speaking of which, Susan is surprisingly good at playing politics. Carole Ann Ford might make an excellent addition to the Gallifrey range. Though if they do bring Gallifrey into the post-war era, I think Susan should definitely be dead. The Doctor needs to have some personal consequences from the war, I think. I've proposed a "Gallifrey-in-exile" set before, set after the Time War but before Gallifrey returns to the "prime" universe: perhaps this could be a good spot for Ford to join? Then she could survive the Time War, but then wind up getting killed in the immediate post-war period, either by Rassilon's police state or Dalek guerillas. Honestly I should probably stop this, now. It's so easy to think of so many fun story ideas for the future of the Gallifrey range.
- Really loved the very last scene with Susan dropping off the traitor and dematerializing her TARDIS. This version of Susan really feels like the perfect blend of the the Doctor's character, and the more callous, typical Time Lord: still a very good person at heart, but much more willing than her grandfather to get her hands dirty in order to get things done. I love it.
- Easily my favorite episode of the set.
Regarding The Shoreditch Intervention: - Cool concept, somewhat muddy execution. Overall this story felt kind of unfocused. Like it was a two-parter that didn't have enough meat to it to justify taking up half the boxset, so they chopped it up into a single story.
- That said, McGann is, as ever, a delight, and he has excellent chemistry with Ford.
- Kinda confused by Earth being time-locked. Especially 1960s Earth. I can understand it being too dangerous to travel to, given the Doctor's past presence, but that it's impossible to travel to at all? Seems pretty unlikely, given all of the time travel around that era. Hell, even just recently Big Finish has had River Song meeting up with the 1st Doctor at the same basic time this story takes place.
- Oh God, oh God. That cliffhanger. Why bring up a big, scary meeting with Rassilon without actually letting us see that meeting? It's torturous! There had better be a Susan's War 2 in the works, otherwise that cliffhanger is unconscionable. And even then, it's kinda cruel to not even have a release date, given how long these sets sometimes take to come out.
Kinda disappointed with myself that I didn't immediately jump on this set when it released. At the time, I hadn't really heard Carole Ann Ford in audio, and didn't know what to expect. But, wow, this set was incredible. Really glad I finally got around to it.
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Post by theillusiveman on Jan 10, 2021 11:05:14 GMT
You know I wonder if there will be a follow up/ volume 2 I know it’s unlikely to be in Gallifrey: Time War 4 since the range Is now going to be retired so it just leaves Eigith Doctor: Time War 5 Or War Doctor Begins
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Post by Kestrel on Jan 13, 2021 8:15:03 GMT
I don't really see much chance of 'big' actors like Ford winding up in the War Doctor Begins range. The 8DTW range might work well for a follow-up, though, given he's "Susan's Doctor", at least in this point in her life. Though ideally... I'd want a trilogy, of sorts. Maybe a Susan's War 2 set (or have her as a companion to McGann throughout an entire 8DTW set) where she gets more involved in the seedier aspects of Wartime Gallifrey, culminating in the absolute-essential, Big-Finish-Absolutely-Must-Do-This-No-Matter-What {Spoiler}{Spoiler} 12DA boxset featuring Carol Ann Ford and Peter Capaldi.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2021 9:37:11 GMT
I don't really see much chance of 'big' actors like Ford winding up in the War Doctor Begins range. The 8DTW range might work well for a follow-up, though, given he's "Susan's Doctor", at least in this point in her life. Though ideally... I'd want a trilogy, of sorts. Maybe a Susan's War 2 set (or have her as a companion to McGann throughout an entire 8DTW set) where she gets more involved in the seedier aspects of Wartime Gallifrey, culminating in the absolute-essential, Big-Finish-Absolutely-Must-Do-This-No-Matter-What {Spoiler}{Spoiler} 12DA boxset featuring Carol Ann Ford and Peter Capaldi. More for Susan meeting 13 her grandmother
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Post by Kestrel on Jan 19, 2021 11:06:30 GMT
That could potentially be interesting, but they haven't really done any with with 13 that would speak to a meaningful connection to a past family life, whereas one of the big thrusts of Capaldi's Final season was that he saw Bill as a surrogate granddaughter... so I think there's room for some good character exploration there.
Though admittedly 12's don't make much sense if he's not dealing with having lost Susan, though the nature of that loss could simply be her growing up and changing.
Speaking of which, how weird must Time Lord family life be like? It's easy enough to see 8 or 12 demonstrating affection for Susan when we're talking about the 1st Susan, but what about regenerations? Imagine the 13th Doctor meeting a 7th Susan, for example. It would be a grandparent-who-wasn't-a-grandparent meeting a granddaughter-who-wasn't-a-granddaughter. Like crashing the Ship of Theseus dilemma into a family tree.
But, anyway, yeah, Susan and 13 would be weird. Not sure if it would work in a dramatic story, given the age difference, but itwould definitely still be an interesting pairing.
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Post by apollo2019 on Mar 21, 2021 19:26:07 GMT
Given what happened at the end of 8DTW 4 i think it could be really interesting if Susan were to regenerate into her 2nd incarnation. Would Alex still regard her as his mother? And how would any new incarnation of Susan regard Alex?
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Post by Timelord007 on Apr 12, 2021 12:08:52 GMT
This 25 quid Amazon, don't usually do companion spin offs but this set of stories intrigued me
Worth a punt?
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Post by mark687 on Apr 12, 2021 12:24:46 GMT
This 25 quid Amazon, don't usually do companion spin offs but this set of stories intrigued me Worth a punt? If you like 1st Doc Era nostalgic yes and its not over Dalek heavy Regards mark687
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Post by Whovitt on Apr 19, 2021 6:31:46 GMT
I had a thought when this came out but never got around to actually checking - when Ian's on the phone to Barbara, it really sounds like he's talking to Jacqueline Hill, but it was in some way distorted, probably reversed. While it turns out I was right about the dialogue being reversed, it doesn't seem to be dialogue taken from Jacqueline's TV episodes (though it could her voice from something else; truth be told, the sound's so murky it could be anyone). I've just processed the relevant section and this is what I was able to deduce (the voice is very muffled and unclear in some sections, so I can't be certain of everything she says): Ian: Hello? Barbara? "Barbara": I think this time it really is the end of the Daleks. Ian: I'll check the cupboards, but I think we've run out. "Barbara": They're sounding the drums of [something, possibly "attack"]. Their city was all but destroyed. Ian: We do have cinnamon sticks, but... "Barbara": Living in a world that doesn't seem... Ian: Good grief. "Barbara": [inaudible] Ian: No, you're not imagining it. It's materialising in front of me right now. No. It's making the noise but it's not a police box. Actually, it's in the shape of a refrigerator. Well, he did always say he'd fix it one day, didn't he? "Barbara": Oh, Ian. Ian: The door's opening. Veklin: Ian Chesterton? Ian: Yes. Is the Doctor with you? Veklin: No. I need you to come with me. Ian: What? "Barbara": ...had to cut her clothes off for the surgeon to be... Ian: No, it isn't the Doctor. It's a woman. Veklin: I also need you to end that call. Nobody can know about this mission. Ian: Mission? Veklin: End the call now. Ian: I'll see you in a bit, Barbara. "Barbara": Goodbye. Not sure if this is really of any interest to anyone, but I thought I'd share it just in case
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