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Post by nucleusofswarm on Mar 21, 2020 1:59:37 GMT
The story that gave us one of the most oft-demanded yet elusive Time Lord villains, and brought the Bakers into our orbit. But is the story really just carried by Colin, Anthony and Kate's menage-a-toie, or is there something more to it as an actual narrative?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2020 4:03:55 GMT
You know that scene towards the end of the story, where the tree (that used to be Luke Ward) curls one of its branches around Peri to stop her treading on a mine? I love that scene. Others scoff at it, but what show other than Doctor Who would attempt such a concept? I find the scene outrageous and tragic at the same time.
I also think Anthony Ainley, often said to be outshined here by Kate O'Mara, is at his creepy best as The Master. Not quite Logopolis or Survival creepy, but pretty satanic.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2020 5:19:12 GMT
You know that scene towards the end of the story, where the tree (that used to be Luke Ward) curls one of its branches around Peri to stop her treading on a mine? I love that scene. Others scoff at it, but what show other than Doctor Who would attempt such a concept? I find the scene outrageous and tragic at the same time.
I also think Anthony Ainley, often said to be outshined here by Kate O'Mara, is at his creepy best as The Master. Not quite Logopolis or Survival creepy, but pretty satanic.
I love the whole confrontation in the Dell. There's some great banter between the three time-travellers. I've a particular fondness for a handful of lines between the Doctor and the Master that really underlines their long acquaintanceship: Delivered with just a hint of a snarl from Baker and an almost congratulatory smirk from Ainley. The whole scene plays very nicely on the idea that we don't know what this Doctor is capable of. I like the subtle addition to the script that maybe Sixie's moments of violence are down to his emotions getting the better of him. An incarnation unpredictable perhaps even to himself. I'd have loved to see the Rani make a once-a-season appearance had Colin gotten a longer tenure. Particularly given that her modus operandi once things went sideways was almost identical to as the Doctor in his early adventures -- return to the TARDIS and leave. Only in this case, by any means necessary. |
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Post by tuigirl on Mar 21, 2020 10:25:05 GMT
You just triggered the desire in me to re-watch this. I remember vaguely that I liked this.
Started on the first episode. I will write my thoughts down shortly.
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Post by mark687 on Mar 21, 2020 14:27:59 GMT
You know that scene towards the end of the story, where the tree (that used to be Luke Ward) curls one of its branches around Peri to stop her treading on a mine? I love that scene. Others scoff at it, but what show other than Doctor Who would attempt such a concept? I find the scene outrageous and tragic at the same time.
I also think Anthony Ainley, often said to be outshined here by Kate O'Mara, is at his creepy best as The Master. Not quite Logopolis or Survival creepy, but pretty satanic.
I love the whole confrontation in the Dell. There's some great banter between the three time-travellers. I've a particular fondness for a handful of lines between the Doctor and the Master that really underlines their long acquaintanceship: Delivered with just a hint of a snarl from Baker and an almost congratulatory smirk from Ainley. The whole scene plays very nicely on the idea that we don't know what this Doctor is capable of. I like the subtle addition to the script that maybe Sixie's moments of violence are down to his emotions getting the better of him. An incarnation unpredictable perhaps even to himself. I'd have loved to see the Rani make a once-a-season appearance had Colin gotten a longer tenure. Particularly given that her modus operandi once things went sideways was almost identical to as the Doctor in his early adventures -- return to the TARDIS and leave. Only in this case, by any means necessary. Completely agree Ainley's 2nd best performance after Survival and also that specific scene builds to the that look between them and he realizes this Doctor might just kill him. Regards mark687 |
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Post by Hieronymus on Mar 21, 2020 16:18:32 GMT
This is my favorite story of that season, and perhaps my favorite story from Colin Baker's TV tenure.
Elsewhere in the season, Lytton was a powerfully written part but in a story with tonal flaws. Vengeance on Varos was probably the best script and best story that season, but it's a satire, and so lacks the groundedness and reality of a semi-historical story like Mark of the Rani.
Mark of the Rani is the only story with a properly real setting and cast of real characters. The fact that they shot a lot of footage on location went a long way towards establishing the geography as a real place. I'm a fan of the historicals too, which sways my opinion a bit.
The fact that there are three Time Lord renegades in this story, all freely commenting about each other, makes for great dialogue. "He'd get dizzy if he tried to walk in a straight line." is my favorite quip. And the moment when the Doctor confronts the Rani, telling her the Time Lords will stop her, only to discover she's been getting away with her schemes without attracting notice because she's clever about it, is a great moment as well.
Peri also gets to do the botany; the only time her university studies were incorporated into a story.
The only serious flaw was the design of Peri's outfit. It looked terrible. And for an outfit to look bad on Nicola Bryant, it has to be well and truly awful. At least she got to be warm on the location shoots.
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Post by tuigirl on Mar 21, 2020 18:51:54 GMT
I have forgotten how much FUN this is.
The bickering between the three renegades is fantastic, their backstabbing and intrigues against each other even more so.
There are some wonderful lines for each of them, but the above mentioned "He would get dizzy if he walked in a straight line" takes the cake.
I love the location filming and Colin gives his all in this- in the audio commentary he even mentioned he broke his finger while doing one of the stunts.
And then there is the scene with the Doctor tied to a pole- and Colin narrating the hilarious story behind the scene, where they left him tied up alone in the (public) woods for 20 minutes and some person came along walking their dog and they are having a little chat about "Nice Dog", small talk, not addressing the elephant in the room (or, better, the tied up lone actor in the woods) before the member of the public disappeared again (all the while Colin was afraid of the dog doing a scent mark on him).
Oh god. This was the laugh I desperately needed today.
Colin is such a treasure.
Thank you for instigating this re-watch.
And I have to say, I have to agree with Hieronymus, that Peri's outfit is... an acquired taste. At least she is not displaying her assets all that obviously in this one.
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Post by mark687 on Mar 21, 2020 22:54:13 GMT
I have forgotten how much FUN this is. The bickering between the three renegades is fantastic, their backstabbing and intrigues against each other even more so. There are some wonderful lines for each of them, but the above mentioned "He would get dizzy if he walked in a straight line" takes the cake. I love the location filming and Colin gives his all in this- in the audio commentary he even mentioned he broke his finger while doing one of the stunts. And then there is the scene with the Doctor tied to a pole- and Colin narrating the hilarious story behind the scene, where they left him tied up alone in the (public) woods for 20 minutes and some person came along walking their dog and they are having a little chat about "Nice Dog", small talk, not addressing the elephant in the room (or, better, the tied up lone actor in the woods) before the member of the public disappeared again (all the while Colin was afraid of the dog doing a scent mark on him). Oh god. This was the laugh I desperately needed today. Colin is such a treasure. Thank you for instigating this re-watch. And I have to say, I have to agree with Hieronymus, t hat Peri's outfit is... an acquired taste. At least she is not displaying her assets all that obviously in this one. Not so she's actually using the knowledge from her Botany studies   Regards mark687 |
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Post by tuigirl on Mar 21, 2020 22:57:10 GMT
I have forgotten how much FUN this is. The bickering between the three renegades is fantastic, their backstabbing and intrigues against each other even more so. There are some wonderful lines for each of them, but the above mentioned "He would get dizzy if he walked in a straight line" takes the cake. I love the location filming and Colin gives his all in this- in the audio commentary he even mentioned he broke his finger while doing one of the stunts. And then there is the scene with the Doctor tied to a pole- and Colin narrating the hilarious story behind the scene, where they left him tied up alone in the (public) woods for 20 minutes and some person came along walking their dog and they are having a little chat about "Nice Dog", small talk, not addressing the elephant in the room (or, better, the tied up lone actor in the woods) before the member of the public disappeared again (all the while Colin was afraid of the dog doing a scent mark on him). Oh god. This was the laugh I desperately needed today. Colin is such a treasure. Thank you for instigating this re-watch. And I have to say, I have to agree with Hieronymus, t hat Peri's outfit is... an acquired taste. At least she is not displaying her assets all that obviously in this one. Not so she's actually using the knowledge from her Botany studies Regards mark687 I meant the... other assets. |
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Post by mark687 on Mar 21, 2020 23:01:02 GMT
Not so she's actually using the knowledge from her Botany studies Regards mark687 I meant the... other assets. I know Regards mark687 |
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Post by pazzer on Mar 21, 2020 23:23:35 GMT
Remember enjoying it and there been some good scenes betwen Doctor, Master and Rani. As for the rest think there was something about the industrial revolution and sleep.
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Post by Sir Wearer of Hats on Mar 21, 2020 23:59:58 GMT
The novelisation is wonderful - the Doctor has good peripheral vision because he studied with the peripheral vision hunters of peripheral six or some suitably Pip’n’Janeian weirdness.
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Post by doctorkernow on Mar 22, 2020 0:04:24 GMT
Hello again.
At the time, I found season 22 not to my taste at all. This story was more like traditional Who. I loved Kate O'Mara's Rani, amoral scientist rather than Master of the universe made a change.
The three leads work really well together and the location filming really added to the atmosphere. The Rani's TARDIS was great although the dinosaurs in jars were an odd piece of home decoration.
The tree mines were ridiculous but very amusing.
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Post by barnabaslives on Mar 22, 2020 1:03:26 GMT
The only thing I have against it is that I seem to have a hard time taking the Rani seriously, apparently for lack of understanding of her motivations and the default seems to be that she's simply misunderstood. Maybe I'm missing a subtext (I certainly did with The Happiness Patrol), but Time and the Rani doesn't help put things on a better course because it's hard for me to take anyone very seriously in that story. I could try watching Mark of the Rani again, but that's been my experience the last 3 viewings.
Aside from that, as everyone else has been pointing out very astutely, the story does have a great deal going for it that makes it very worthwhile, and yes - Peri flexing her botany skills is a big plus.
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Post by Hieronymus on Mar 22, 2020 2:17:46 GMT
I love the location filming and Colin gives his all in this- in the audio commentary he even mentioned he broke his finger while doing one of the stunts. The commentary for this story from Colin, Kate, and Nicola is among my favorite commentaries. This is a group of actors who not only can act, but can articulate about their craft, which is an entirely different skill. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2020 2:31:22 GMT
I just remembered, I wrote a post in October last year about a lost Rani story that the Bakers wrote for the short-lived Make-Your-Own-Adventure series that emerged during the 1986 hiatus. I've rewritten large chunks of it and added new details for people to peruse. Race Against Time stands rather wonderfully on its own as a story in its own right. Even getting a brief mention in Terror of the Vervoids as the Doctor attempts to leave the Hyperion: " Let's go to Pyro Shika, a fascinating planet--"  |
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Post by tuigirl on Mar 22, 2020 7:07:19 GMT
I love the location filming and Colin gives his all in this- in the audio commentary he even mentioned he broke his finger while doing one of the stunts. The commentary for this story from Colin, Kate, and Nicola is among my favorite commentaries. This is a group of actors who not only can act, but can articulate about their craft, which is an entirely different skill. It is just fun. They are having a good laugh together and there are so many fun stories... including Colin smearing dog droppings in his face or being tied to this pole. And it is quite clear what Nicola things of her character and what she had to do and wear, and that gets some funny comments, too. You are right, this is one of the best audio commentaries, even if Colin is always good value. |
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Post by tuigirl on Mar 22, 2020 7:19:55 GMT
The only thing I have against it is that I seem to have a hard time taking the Rani seriously, apparently for lack of understanding of her motivations and the default seems to be that she's simply misunderstood. Maybe I'm missing a subtext (I certainly did with The Happiness Patrol), but Time and the Rani doesn't help put things on a better course because it's hard for me to take anyone very seriously in that story. I could try watching Mark of the Rani again, but that's been my experience the last 3 viewings. Aside from that, as everyone else has been pointing out very astutely, the story does have a great deal going for it that makes it very worthwhile, and yes - Peri flexing her botany skills is a big plus. Well, as a scientist myself (although sadly not an evil one, I would love to have a lair) I can understand her motivations perfectly. She just wants to get on with her work and be left alone, and there are these two jokers interfering and messing everything up, plus she has to deal with all this ridiculous overblown ego. Basically as it is in real life. She also does not take neither the Doctor nor the Master serious because she is just tired of their bullsh#t. Also something I can totally relate to, basically my reaction to quite a few people at university. It is amazing how accurate a description of general life as a scientist this is, a wonderful metaphor. Colin is totally right when he says how clever the two Bakers (writers) are with their stories. |
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