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Post by icecreamdf on Dec 6, 2015 6:13:31 GMT
and why he thought he was dying at the start of the series. He was planning to visit Davros, in what was certainly a trap. I liked this episode. I expect we haven't seen the last of Rassilon. It was pretty awesome seeing the Time Lords treating the Doctor with greater reverance and fear than Rassilon himself. When BF gets the rights to Twelfth Doctor stuff, I hope they do some Clara and Me stories.
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Post by omega on Dec 6, 2015 9:07:40 GMT
There were more comparisons to Charley Pollard here. Meant to die, saved by the Doctor and their survival endangered history? Check. TARDIS showed some degree of hostility towards them? Check. Has a complicated relationship with multiple Doctors? Check? Last seen going off into the universe with a mysterious being, the Doctor having lost some or all memories involving them? Check, and double check for Charley, the Eighth Doctor wound up forgetting their whole last adventure!
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Post by Timelord007 on Dec 6, 2015 9:16:47 GMT
A mixed bag, great opening but it lacked a certain threat element & I'm not convinced the Doctor would break all those laws for one person, i thought he'd learned his lesson from Water's Of Mars.
I'm not going to get into a debate about the regeneration, personally i don't like it & nobody will convince me otherwise it should be made clear timelords choose there gender in my opinion.
Capaldi though is excellent & reignited Doctor Who for me he's like a classic Doctor in the new series.
Can't say I'm hyped up for the Christmas special which looks very silly, Voyage Of The Dammed 2?
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Post by david on Dec 6, 2015 9:36:34 GMT
I'm not going to get into a debate about the regeneration, personally i don't like it & nobody will convince me otherwise There's nothing like an open mind The best thing about this regeneration? There IS no debate any more. Timelords can change sex and colour with no issues. No caveats, no fan-theories, no burying heads in sand to deny the truth. Indeed, The General even said she's been a woman for all her other incarnations so it was the male incarnation we know that was out of step Though Rassilon always seems to regenerate into an elderly ham
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Post by Timelord007 on Dec 6, 2015 9:53:59 GMT
Clara wants the Doctor too forget her but leaves a whopping great image of her on the Tardis door so does he remember what she looks like now?
I can't believe Rassilon would just do one, Daltons incarnation wouldn't have?
One thing about Moffat series finale arcs you can guarantee I'll be lying down in a dark room afterwards.
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Post by Sir Wearer of Hats on Dec 6, 2015 10:57:16 GMT
I'd like that console room full time. It's obviously designed with HD in mind and looks stunning.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2015 11:06:54 GMT
*sigh* They couldn't leave well enough alone, could they? A low-key, but not entirely unwelcome return to Gallifrey and they had to spoil it by undercutting what should have been a poignant and affecting death for Clara. Whatever happened to the dead staying dead? Good lord, this has almost gotten to the point where I can watch The Daleks' Master Plan to cheer me up. That's never a good sign. Despite some genuinely good moments by the barn with the Gallifreyan Mrs. Hudson and in the cloister (barring the continuity bomb we really didn't need), the whole show felt pointless. It's an overly prolonged farewell to a companion which we said goodbye to in Face the Raven and it's hard not to see this as an agenda being pushed with vignettes tagged around it. The plot with the hybrid went nowhere very, very quickly and it's hard not to see Clara's adventures quickly cut short by the Time Lords with a prompt execution given how much of a danger she is to time and space, her theft of a TARDIS and the fact that she doesn't have the Doctor to protect her.
Watching the new series is actually starting to physically hurt me. Not because it's horrendous, but because of sheer frustration at how close they are to greatness and how they keep tripping over their own clichés. It's Star Trek: Voyager all over again. I'm going to jump ship now while I still have the chance. I think the opening scenes in the drylands sum up one major problem in particular: the soldiers drop their guns and don't fire at the Doctor not because of anything he does in that moment, but because of past glories and achievements. Kind of emblematic of the show at the moment really.
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Post by ollychops on Dec 6, 2015 13:28:48 GMT
Just finished rewatching this, and definitely enjoyed it more. I like the idea of Clara and Ashildr going off and having adventures in their own TARDIS. At least, until Clara has to go back and face the raven.
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shutupbanks
Castellan
There’s a horror movie called Alien? That’s really offensive. No wonder everyone keeps invading you.
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Post by shutupbanks on Dec 6, 2015 13:45:47 GMT
Loved it. Said it before and will doubtless say it again: I've become a fan again: I'm excited by the storytelling in a way I haven't been for many years. I would've preferred Clara to stay dead, but the way they brought her back - and will have to let her go again - was inventive and her reaction to what happened to the Doctor immediately afterwards was heartbreaking.
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Post by Shiny on Dec 6, 2015 17:05:25 GMT
I thought this finale was good but not great. There were parts that I thought were brilliant and parts that I didn't like. I guess almost any episode would look bad coming after the masterpiece that was Heaven Sent. Again, this was a good episode and some parts were brilliant. It's just that I had enjoyed the rest of Series 9 so much that I was expecting to be a little more enthusiastic about this finale. Then again, almost any episode would look bad next to the masterpiece that is Heaven Sent.
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Post by TinDogPodcast on Dec 6, 2015 17:22:47 GMT
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Post by Ela on Dec 6, 2015 17:36:05 GMT
Loved it! And I definitely don't think it invalidates Clara's death or makes it a cop-out. She says herself it's a fixed point. It's the Doctor who is frantically trying to stop it from happening against his own better judgment. Loved the scenes on Gallifrey and the interior of that stolen TARDIS.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2015 18:30:44 GMT
A mixed bag, great opening but it lacked a certain threat element & I'm not convinced the Doctor would break all those laws for one person, i thought he'd learned his lesson from Water's Of Mars. It was more that he just didn't have time to deal then anything else. Clara died and he was locked away with the Spectre for two million years - for me, it made sense that he spiralled off into the malestrome we saw here, past history be damned, particularly since it was his own people who he gave so much of his soul for.
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Post by icecreamdf on Dec 6, 2015 19:22:42 GMT
A mixed bag, great opening but it lacked a certain threat element & I'm not convinced the Doctor would break all those laws for one person, i thought he'd learned his lesson from Water's Of Mars. It was more that he just didn't have time to deal then anything else. Clara died and he was locked away with the Spectre for two million years - for me, it made sense that he spiralled off into the malestrome we saw here, past history be damned, particularly since it was his own people who he gave so much of his soul for. Two million years? If only he was only locked away for two million years. It was four and a half billion years.
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Post by acousticwolf on Dec 6, 2015 19:34:34 GMT
Two million years? If only he was only locked away for two million years. It was four and a half billion years. I assume time passed differently within the confession dial or else the universe would be without the doctor until they reached the very end of it (apart from all the other doctors that are flitting around). Boy this time travel stuff really messes with your head ... Cheers Tony
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Post by nottenst on Dec 6, 2015 20:54:09 GMT
I think they wrote themselves into a corner with Clara's death and the Doctor wanting to make them pay. It was going down a dark path which could have been unrecoverable. So, to bring it back to a lighter show they removed the Doctor's memory of Clara and it is clear sailing for a while.
There are loads of 12th Doctor and Clara stories that have been referred to, so we don't even need a Clara and Me spin-off for stories. I do think that would be an interesting spin-off to see/hear.
Meanwhile it looks like Ashidr/Me really liked immortality to stay around so long and now to happily gallivant around with Clara for who knows how much longer.
I also would have liked to have heard more of the Time Lords negotiations with Mayor Me.
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Post by Sir Wearer of Hats on Dec 6, 2015 21:04:01 GMT
I also would have liked to have heard more of the Time Lords negotiations with Mayor Me. Especially given the implication that the person Ashildyr negotiated with was Missy!
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Post by icecreamdf on Dec 6, 2015 21:05:13 GMT
I also would have liked to have heard more of the Time Lords negotiations with Mayor Me. Especially given the implication that the person Ashildyr negotiated with was Missy! When was that implied?
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Post by kimalysong on Dec 6, 2015 21:16:07 GMT
I'd definitely love some Clara/Ashildar Big Finish stories. Looking forward to the possibility of that.
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Post by Sir Wearer of Hats on Dec 6, 2015 22:21:25 GMT
Especially given the implication that the person Ashildyr negotiated with was Missy! When was that implied? Ashildyr called Missy "the Master", suggesting they've met, and IIRC one hell of a negotiator.
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