|
Post by Audio Watchdog on Sept 7, 2021 21:56:28 GMT
They've gotten Tennant in for a couple of other cameos in other projects -- his extended cameos in the Donna set and The Legacy of Time were both done alongside the recording of the third volume of the Tenth Doctor Adventures. Provided Eccleston was OK with it, there's no reason he shouldn't be able to do something similar. Speaking as a lowly day player actor who gets paid every time I step in front of a camera or a mic, I find it impossible to believe someone like David Tennant would not know he was recording for additional productions. Or that Big Finish would try to pull something like that. Any actor with a halfway decent agent is never going to let that happen. Was Tennant’s work for the Donna Noble or Legacy of Time tacked on to his recording for a 10th Doctor set? Almost certainly but he knew about it and compensation was already agreed upon. As for Chris Eccleston? He certainly seems to have put the kibosh on any multi-Doctor story, so I’ll take him at his word until I read, or hear otherwise. Big Finish would never try and sneak a few lines out of him for something else.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2021 22:04:13 GMT
There's surely union rules against using actor's work without their permission in other releases unless they've signed off on something - which wouldn't surprise me with the Paltrow example - Disney buys your soul, as Scarlett Johansen is finding out in court. But using their work for one paid gig to fill another that you will then sell based on them being in it? Can't see many actors, agents or unions letting that fly. We know BF *have* gotten actors to record bits and pieces when they're already in the booth for releases they're barely in. But do we know they're not compensated as normal for that?
|
|
|
Post by shallacatop on Sept 7, 2021 22:35:40 GMT
There's surely union rules against using actor's work without their permission in other releases unless they've signed off on something - which wouldn't surprise me with the Paltrow example - Disney buys your soul, as Scarlett Johansen is finding out in court. But using their work for one paid gig to fill another that you will then sell based on them being in it? Can't see many actors, agents or unions letting that fly. We know BF *have* gotten actors to record bits and pieces when they're already in the booth for releases they're barely in. But do we know they're not compensated as normal for that? We don’t know if they are or aren’t compensated, which I suppose has partially kicked off the discussion. I’d assume they are, but that’s not necessarily the same as them being privy of the full context of the work. The “sell based on them being in it” is an interesting one; would it be any different if it’s an unmarketed cameo? Personally, in some cases I’d be shocked if Big Finish had the foresight to sign off on some of the additional bits and pieces when they booked the actor in for the original days recording on another release. Not a criticism of them, but with the sheer output they have and the various different levels of planning, quick turnarounds on some things, etc. I wouldn’t be surprised if they’re reliant on goodwill in some cases, particularly if they are uncredited. And if for whatever reason it doesn’t come to fruition, then the relevant bonus scene is on the cutting room floor and remains unrecorded. There’s also different layers to it. Part of what I was trying to get across is that there’s different approaches to getting Chris in some multi-Doctor involvement that isn’t necessarily trickery, but all about context. Ultimately it’s a moot point for me; I’m not fussed if Chris never does a multi-Doctor story. He’s surely the one Doctor that can get away with it given the continuity free nature of his tenure!
|
|
|
Post by Audio Watchdog on Sept 7, 2021 22:58:50 GMT
There's surely union rules against using actor's work without their permission in other releases unless they've signed off on something - which wouldn't surprise me with the Paltrow example - Disney buys your soul, as Scarlett Johansen is finding out in court. But using their work for one paid gig to fill another that you will then sell based on them being in it? Can't see many actors, agents or unions letting that fly. We know BF *have* gotten actors to record bits and pieces when they're already in the booth for releases they're barely in. But do we know they're not compensated as normal for that? We don’t know if they are or aren’t compensated, which I suppose has partially kicked off the discussion. I’d assume they are, but that’s not necessarily the same as them being privy of the full context of the work. The “sell based on them being in it” is an interesting one; would it be any different if it’s an unmarketed cameo? Personally, in some cases I’d be shocked if Big Finish had the foresight to sign off on some of the additional bits and pieces when they booked the actor in for the original days recording on another release. Not a criticism of them, but with the sheer output they have and the various different levels of planning, quick turnarounds on some things, etc. I wouldn’t be surprised if they’re reliant on goodwill in some cases, particularly if they are uncredited. And if for whatever reason it doesn’t come to fruition, then the relevant bonus scene is on the cutting room floor and remains unrecorded. There’s also different layers to it. Part of what I was trying to get across is that there’s different approaches to getting Chris in some multi-Doctor involvement that isn’t necessarily trickery, but all about context. Ultimately it’s a moot point for me; I’m not fussed if Chris never does a multi-Doctor story. He’s surely the one Doctor that can get away with it given the continuity free nature of his tenure! If an actor is walking into a studio or a set they know what they are working on. Period. David Tennant is a professional actor. Big Finish is a professional company. There is some kind of agreed compensation involved. Period. The words “privy to” kicked off the conversation at least on my end. Have a nice day.
|
|
|
Post by shallacatop on Sept 8, 2021 10:57:16 GMT
We don’t know if they are or aren’t compensated, which I suppose has partially kicked off the discussion. I’d assume they are, but that’s not necessarily the same as them being privy of the full context of the work. The “sell based on them being in it” is an interesting one; would it be any different if it’s an unmarketed cameo? Personally, in some cases I’d be shocked if Big Finish had the foresight to sign off on some of the additional bits and pieces when they booked the actor in for the original days recording on another release. Not a criticism of them, but with the sheer output they have and the various different levels of planning, quick turnarounds on some things, etc. I wouldn’t be surprised if they’re reliant on goodwill in some cases, particularly if they are uncredited. And if for whatever reason it doesn’t come to fruition, then the relevant bonus scene is on the cutting room floor and remains unrecorded. There’s also different layers to it. Part of what I was trying to get across is that there’s different approaches to getting Chris in some multi-Doctor involvement that isn’t necessarily trickery, but all about context. Ultimately it’s a moot point for me; I’m not fussed if Chris never does a multi-Doctor story. He’s surely the one Doctor that can get away with it given the continuity free nature of his tenure! If an actor is walking into a studio or a set they know what they are working on. Period. David Tennant is a professional actor. Big Finish is a professional company. There is some kind of agreed compensation involved. Period. The words “privy to” kicked off the conversation at least on my end. Have a nice day. It’s a shame you don’t want to engage in any discussion and instead are making blunt statements that don’t necessarily hold up in every case. There’s even been some examples have been shared that you’ve overlooked. Though I appreciate you lending some insight based on your own experience. Hope you have a good day too!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2021 11:18:33 GMT
Depends entirely on how it’s being booked surely? If it’s a day of recording, then I don’t see why they would be privy to the specifics. If they’re booked to record a specific story, then potentially, but I can’t see them necessarily doing that in every case. Not Big Finish specifically, but Hayden Christensen’s Return of the Jedi and the many Marvel bits and pieces spring to mind. Yup, let's not forget that Gwyneth Paltrow didn't even realise she was in Spiderman: Homecoming... I bet her agent did though. Nobody who wants actors to work for them in the future would ever use anyone's performance without clearing it, but there's no particular reason the actor in question would need to know all the details of everywhere their performances are being used, especially a big name star whose office is probably dealing with these types of clearances on a regular basis. I guess someone could be hired to do a session recording for lines to be used in unspecified productions, but I can't ever imagine any of Big Finish's named stars being contracted on that basis.
|
|
|
Post by mark687 on Sept 8, 2021 11:21:11 GMT
Cameo situations I'm aware of Spoilers obvs
Jenny Vol 1
"Just speak into the Mic Honey"
Donna Kidnapped and Legacy of Time
ADR sessions at the end of 10DA and 1DA Recordings
Diary of River Song and Susan's War
Samples of existing dialogue from previous releases but did receive an additional fee
Regards
mark687
|
|
|
Post by johnhurtdoctor on Sept 8, 2021 11:55:47 GMT
Yup, let's not forget that Gwyneth Paltrow didn't even realise she was in Spiderman: Homecoming... I bet her agent did though. Nobody who wants actors to work for them in the future would ever use anyone's performance without clearing it, but there's no particular reason the actor in question would need to know all the details of everywhere their performances are being used, especially a big name star whose office is probably dealing with these types of clearances on a regular basis. I guess someone could be hired to do a session recording for lines to be used in unspecified productions, but I can't ever imagine any of Big Finish's named stars being contracted on that basis. Nor can I, & I find it hard to believe that someone like Eccleston would record lines without being told when & where they will be used.
|
|
|
Post by theillusiveman on Sept 8, 2021 12:07:19 GMT
Honestly if Eccleston doesnt want to do The 60th Anniversary Multi-Doctor Story with the others because of his silly views on Multi-Doctor Stories then that's fine Jacob Dudman had done a fairly decent impression of him in The Lives of Captain Jack Vol 3 and Big Finish would probably use him as The 11th Doctor why not save some cash and have him play The Ninth Doctor aswell
|
|
|
Post by johnhurtdoctor on Sept 8, 2021 12:34:15 GMT
Honestly if Eccleston doesnt want to do The 60th Anniversary Multi-Doctor Story with the others because of his silly views on Multi-Doctor Stories then that's fine Jacob Dudman had done a fairly decent impression of him in The Lives of Captain Jack Vol 3 and Big Finish would probably use him as The 11th Doctor why not save some cash and have him play The Ninth Doctor aswell TBH I don't think Eccleston's views are silly, what would be silly if BF chose instead to use Dudman based on Eccelston's opinion or potential refusal to partake in a multi-Doctor story.
|
|
|
Post by muckypup on Sept 8, 2021 13:00:21 GMT
Honestly if Eccleston doesnt want to do The 60th Anniversary Multi-Doctor Story with the others because of his silly views on Multi-Doctor Stories then that's fine Jacob Dudman had done a fairly decent impression of him in The Lives of Captain Jack Vol 3 and Big Finish would probably use him as The 11th Doctor why not save some cash and have him play The Ninth Doctor aswell Big finish writers are clever enough to write a multi doctor celebration to and keep everyone happy……. we had loads of multi doc crossovers…….there fun but personally I’ve had enough a crossover tale would be more satisfying for me rather than meeting each other…….. but big finish would never just record lines and slot them in without an actors permission we had so many “wish list” things over the past two years….a period of back to tradition story telling I would enjoy more than multi doctor being prime focus. I am afraid it’s careful what you wish for as it’s not always as satisfying as you hope……
|
|
ljwilson
Chancellery Guard
It's tangerine....not orange
Likes: 5,063
|
Post by ljwilson on Sept 8, 2021 13:38:05 GMT
I don't actually think there is a multi-doctor story planned, so people are discussing something that isn't even a thing!
|
|
|
Post by mark687 on Sept 8, 2021 13:47:22 GMT
I don't actually think there is a multi-doctor story planned, so people are discussing something that isn't even a thing! Tom at least has recorded something as part of a specific release that will be Marketed as BFs DW 60th Anniversary story ala LATE and Legacy Regards mark687
|
|
|
Post by Audio Watchdog on Sept 8, 2021 18:04:33 GMT
If an actor is walking into a studio or a set they know what they are working on. Period. David Tennant is a professional actor. Big Finish is a professional company. There is some kind of agreed compensation involved. Period. The words “privy to” kicked off the conversation at least on my end. Have a nice day. It’s a shame you don’t want to engage in any discussion and instead are making blunt statements that don’t necessarily hold up in every case. There’s even been some examples have been shared that you’ve overlooked. Though I appreciate you lending some insight based on your own experience. Hope you have a good day too! They are blunt statements that reflect the reality of working professionally in the entertainment industry. Are there exceptions? Of course. Nothing is 100% but there are rules, and unions & agents are there to make sure the rules are followed. If Tennant did walk into a situation where he wasn’t privy to exactly what he was recording, or BF tried tacking additional dialogue for other projects without Tennant’s representation knowing about it walking in, and compensation discussed & worked out, that would be a breach of accepted standards & practices and there would be hell to pay. Your “not privy to” speculation isn’t based on a real world working experience in the entertainment industry. Anyway, I’m tired of having to repeat reality to you. You may continue if you wish. I’m done.
|
|
|
Post by Audio Watchdog on Sept 8, 2021 18:12:33 GMT
Honestly if Eccleston doesnt want to do The 60th Anniversary Multi-Doctor Story with the others because of his silly views on Multi-Doctor Stories then that's fine Jacob Dudman had done a fairly decent impression of him in The Lives of Captain Jack Vol 3 and Big Finish would probably use him as The 11th Doctor why not save some cash and have him play The Ninth Doctor aswell The man has his view. Just because you disagree with it doesn’t make it silly. Tom Baker felt the same way when they came around to making The Five Doctors. Sure he eventually came to regret that choice but it was his to make. Neither Baker or Eccleston owe us a thing. Appreciate that Eccleston changed his mind about ever playing 9 again. As for just hiring a competent voice impersonator because CE passed on something, I like to think Big Finish has more sense and class than that.
|
|
|
Post by commonman on Sept 8, 2021 18:14:29 GMT
For what it's worth, Big Finish specifically stated in the Susan War boxset extras that they checked with David Bradley's agent before putting in repurposing some of his lines previously recorded for and used in the River Song series.
I don't think they would pull that on Chris without telling him, or his agent, either.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2021 18:31:35 GMT
It’s a shame you don’t want to engage in any discussion and instead are making blunt statements that don’t necessarily hold up in every case. There’s even been some examples have been shared that you’ve overlooked. Though I appreciate you lending some insight based on your own experience. Hope you have a good day too! They are blunt statements that reflect the reality of working professionally in the entertainment industry. Are there exceptions? Of course. Nothing is 100% but there are rules, and unions & agents are there to make sure the rules are followed. If Tennant did walk into a situation where he wasn’t privy to exactly what he was recording, or BF tried tacking additional dialogue for other projects without Tennant’s representation knowing about it walking in, and compensation discussed & worked out, that would be a breach of accepted standards & practices and there would be hell to pay. Your “not privy to” speculation isn’t based on a real world working experience in the entertainment industry. Anyway, I’m tired of having to repeat reality to you. You may continue if you wish. I’m done. I have to admit your being unnecessarily (and uncharacteristically) quite rude here. Unless you work for big finish or are david tennant/ his representatives you nor anyone here can say with 100% certainty. The discussion is fine. And regardless, theres still no need for the tone you used with shallacatop. he did not use the same tone with you and its only talking about big finish at the end of the day, no need to get so het up about it just because he offered a different viewpoint to you, even though you probably are correct in what you say having experience
|
|
|
Post by Audio Watchdog on Sept 8, 2021 19:01:14 GMT
They are blunt statements that reflect the reality of working professionally in the entertainment industry. Are there exceptions? Of course. Nothing is 100% but there are rules, and unions & agents are there to make sure the rules are followed. If Tennant did walk into a situation where he wasn’t privy to exactly what he was recording, or BF tried tacking additional dialogue for other projects without Tennant’s representation knowing about it walking in, and compensation discussed & worked out, that would be a breach of accepted standards & practices and there would be hell to pay. Your “not privy to” speculation isn’t based on a real world working experience in the entertainment industry. Anyway, I’m tired of having to repeat reality to you. You may continue if you wish. I’m done. I have to admit your being unnecessarily (and uncharacteristically) quite rude here. Unless you work for big finish or are david tennant/ his representatives you nor anyone here can say with 100% certainty. The discussion is fine. And regardless, theres still no need for the tone you used with shallacatop. he did not use the same tone with you and its only talking about big finish at the end of the day, no need to get so het up about it just because he offered a different viewpoint to you, even though you probably are correct in what you say having experience Oh please. Save your finger wagging for someone else. You will know it when I’m being rude. The rules exist for a reason. I have no reason to doubt that Big Finish followed the rules. And yes I have experience. Which is why I know Shallacaptop’s speculation that Tennant wasn’t privy to exactly what he was recording ahead of time is absurd. The rules exist to protect talent. Those rules were negotiated and fought for. I don’t have to be David Tennant or Big Finish to know certain safeguards are in place or that in all likelihood they were followed. I’m being blunt & direct because I’m tired of having to say the same thing over & over again and I know I’m on solid footing on the facts.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2021 19:05:06 GMT
I have to admit your being unnecessarily (and uncharacteristically) quite rude here. Unless you work for big finish or are david tennant/ his representatives you nor anyone here can say with 100% certainty. The discussion is fine. And regardless, theres still no need for the tone you used with shallacatop. he did not use the same tone with you and its only talking about big finish at the end of the day, no need to get so het up about it just because he offered a different viewpoint to you, even though you probably are correct in what you say having experience Oh please. Save your finger wagging for someone else. You will know it when I’m being rude. The rules exist for a reason. I have no reason to doubt that Big Finish followed the rules. And yes I have experience. Which is why I know Shallacaptop’s speculation that Tennant wasn’t privy to exactly what he was recording ahead of time is absurd. The rules exist to protect talent. Those rules were negotiated and fought for. I don’t have to be David Tennant or Big Finish to know certain safeguards are in place or that in all likelihood they were followed. I’m being blunt & direct because I’m tired of having to say the same thing over & over again and I know I’m on solid footing on the facts. Wow. Okay
|
|
|
Post by shallacatop on Sept 8, 2021 19:16:58 GMT
Oh please. Save your finger wagging for someone else. You will know it when I’m being rude. The rules exist for a reason. I have no reason to doubt that Big Finish followed the rules. And yes I have experience. Which is why I know Shallacaptop’s speculation that Tennant wasn’t privy to exactly what he was recording ahead of time is absurd. The rules exist to protect talent. Those rules were negotiated and fought for. I don’t have to be David Tennant or Big Finish to know certain safeguards are in place or that in all likelihood they were followed. I’m being blunt & direct because I’m tired of having to say the same thing over & over again and I know I’m on solid footing on the facts. Wow. Okay Appreciate the defence, but don’t worry about it. I’m thick skinned enough to not let anything like that bother me. Particularly when it seems my posts are not being properly read in the first place, never mind getting as far as engaging in a discussion; I mean I’ve never once mentioned David Tennant in my posts on the subject!
|
|