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Post by project37 on Sept 2, 2020 14:17:04 GMT
I think this is an absolute must-read:
As a fan for 40+ years, seeing Finn introduced in The Force Awakens meant everything to me and I was even more excited that my kids would get to see him as well. I was heartbroken to see the backlash in some corners of fandom (before the movie was even released!) and then what happened to the character and actor over the remaining films.
Boyega pulls no punches in talking about how awful the whole experience had been. Disney wants the story of the production to be "one big happy family it was all amazing." It takes a lot of strength to speak with such honesty about such an unpleasant topic.
A little excerpt:
How does he reflect on his involvement and the way the newest trilogy was concluded?
“It’s so difficult to manoeuvre,” he says, exhaling deeply, visibly calibrating the level of professional diplomacy to display. “You get yourself involved in projects and you’re not necessarily going to like everything. [But] what I would say to Disney is do not bring out a black character, market them to be much more important in the franchise than they are and then have them pushed to the side. It’s not good. I’ll say it straight up.” He is talking about himself here – about the character of Finn, the former Stormtrooper who wielded a lightsaber in the first film before being somewhat nudged to the periphery. But he is also talking about other people of colour in the cast – Naomi Ackie and Kelly Marie Tran and even Oscar Isaac (“a brother from Guatemala”) – who he feels suffered the same treatment; he is acknowledging that some people will say he’s “crazy” or “making it up”, but the reordered character hierarchy of The Last Jedi was particularly hard to take.
“Like, you guys knew what to do with Daisy Ridley, you knew what to do with Adam Driver,” he says. “You knew what to do with these other people, but when it came to Kelly Marie Tran, when it came to John Boyega, you know fiddlesticks all. So what do you want me to say? What they want you to say is, ‘I enjoyed being a part of it. It was a great experience...’ Nah, nah, nah. I’ll take that deal when it’s a great experience. They gave all the nuance to Adam Driver, all the nuance to Daisy Ridley. Let’s be honest. Daisy knows this. Adam knows this. Everybody knows. I’m not exposing anything.”
He is on a breathless roll now, breaking his long corporate omerta to touch on the unthinking, systemic mistreatment of black characters in blockbusters (“They’re always scared. They’re always fricking sweating”) and what he sees as the relative salvage job that returnee director JJ Abrams performed on The Rise Of Skywalker (“Everybody needs to leave my boy alone. He wasn’t even supposed to come back and try to save your shit”). Even though he also acknowledges that it was an “amazing opportunity” and a “stepping stone” that has precipitated so much good in his life and career, he is palpably exhilarated to be finally saying all this. But to dismiss these words as merely professional bitterness or paranoia is to miss the point. His primary motivation is to show the frustrations and difficulties of trying to operate within what can feel like a permanently rigged system. He is trying, really, to let you know what it feels like to have a boyhood dream ruptured by the toxic realities of the world.
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Post by shallacatop on Sept 2, 2020 21:11:40 GMT
I’ve been thinking about this on and off since reading the interview this morning. It’s a fascinating interview, but I can’t help but feel that Boyega has got his argument a little mixed up.
It was Abrams that penned The Force Awakens, the film which made Rey & Kylo the lead characters and put Rey in contact with Luke and put Finn in a coma. It was he who made Finn a cleaner on Starkiller Base and had Finn not hesitate when blowing up TIE Fighters and Stormtroopers. I appreciate the marketing showed Finn with the lightsaber, etc. but Boyega knew the reality before that had even begun. Whilst he’s one of the leads, I think it’s naive to think that he’d be on equal footing with the villain, who’s Han & Leia’s son, and the Jedi of the piece. It has nothing to do with their colour and Boyega did excellent to win the part outright, given the role of Finn didn’t specify skin colour.
Johnson picked up from there and carried on Finn’s arc. As much as I love The Last Jedi I think there’s a better B plot where Finn & Rose are on the Executor instead of Canto Bight and there’s more hints towards his Force sensitivity. I don’t think he’s badly served in the film, though, and it’s a natural continuation of his arc from The Force Awakens and feels more rounded. I wish the alternative take on his fight with Phasma was used too.
As much as I enjoy the film, it’s The Rise of Skywalker where he’s poorly served. No continuation of his story and the stuff with Rose is abandoned. There’s a lot of scope for Finn in the film; to have trained with Rey and to have lead a Stormtrooper rebellion. The hints are there, but they’re not developed and I’m baffled as to why Boyega is defensive of Abrams in that respect. It’s like a ticklist means more to him than the actual development or screen time.
I could go on to mention that The Rise of Skywalker doesn’t paint its POC cast in the best light; Poe is given a drug smuggling background and Rose is all but relegated. I don’t understand how he could say that TLJ didn’t know how to use POC but is fine with TROS. Personally, I don’t think it’s a case of their skin colour being how they’re utilised, but if you’re going to make that argument then at least make it properly.
There’s valid stuff in his argument; the hairdresser stuff is appalling and could’ve been very dangerous. The poster change for the Chinese Market is unfortunate. I’m just not convinced it’s Disney being racist or anything like that; it’s just Star Wars always struggling with its non-Jedi/Sith characters; I always think of Han & Leia being in Return of the Jedi for the sake of it. It’s always been the same. And there’s a number of reasons for it without race coming into play.
As I said, it’s a fascinating interview with lots of valid points and Boyega is a great guy and very likeable. I’m fixating on his Star Wars experience quotes partially because this is the thread topic, but mainly because I think his views on it are misplaced and I’m having difficulty understanding it.
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shutupbanks
Castellan
There’s a horror movie called Alien? That’s really offensive. No wonder everyone keeps invading you.
Likes: 5,669 
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Post by shutupbanks on Sept 2, 2020 22:41:20 GMT
Great interview: I really didn’t enjoy TFA, but the new cast were all brilliant, and I loved Boyega in Mighty Morphin Pacific Rim (he made a very average sequel worth watching). His account of what happened is interesting because he isn’t wrong about Star Wars and POC: Lando and Mace are great characters but they look very out of place in a very white universe. What Boyega went through in the first movie was reprehensible and to hear his frustration at having Kyle and Ren become the focus, almost as though Disney were listening to the racist fans, must be incredibly frustrating.
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Post by aussiedoctorwhofan on Sept 2, 2020 22:44:54 GMT
I have a couple mates who watch a guy on youtube called "Overlord DVD" he has over 200K subscribers and claims to have multiple sources inside Disney, he usually waits till he gets "confirmation" from all of them before he does his videos. Apparently it's been confirmed there are a couple high-level Disney Execs etc who watch his videos to try and get a "handle" on where it all went wrong.. I haven't checked the stats myself but supposedly Disney lost about $4BN in 1 financial 1/4 this year/last year ?! . They paid about $4.7BN for Star Wars, which used to be a ticket to print money basically. Not going to get into it, but the issues- I 100% do not blame the actors, they are contractually obligated and paid to deliver whatever script is given to them. A few people have recently publically spoken out about "things". U know it's serious when Harrison Ford (Mr Grumpy himself lol) acknowledges there was an "issue". He is the best secret-keeper there is he gives nothing away in general HAHA. Just the look on Mark's face alone in the scene with the drinking of the green stuff says it all HAHA Good on him for being truthful and honest on how he feels though,  |
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Post by Digi on Sept 2, 2020 23:11:09 GMT
I have a couple mates who watch a guy on youtube called "Overlord DVD" he has over 200K subscribers and claims to have multiple sources inside Disney, he usually waits till he gets "confirmation" from all of them before he does his videos. His username is "Doomc*ck Overlord" and as one might guess from that username, he's completely full of s**t. Everything he posts is completely made up; absolutely nothing he posts should be trusted, under any circumstances. If he says "the sky is blue," go to your window to check. |
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Post by aussiedoctorwhofan on Sept 2, 2020 23:34:44 GMT
I have a couple mates who watch a guy on youtube called "Overlord DVD" he has over 200K subscribers and claims to have multiple sources inside Disney, he usually waits till he gets "confirmation" from all of them before he does his videos. His username is "Doomc*ck Overlord" and as one might guess from that username, he's completely full of s**t. Everything he posts is completely made up; absolutely nothing he posts should be trusted, under any circumstances. If he says "the sky is blue," go to your window to check. LOLZ. I haven't actually seen any of it- he wears some sort of costume I believe to disguise himself? |
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Post by johnhurtdoctor on Sept 2, 2020 23:46:13 GMT
Agree 100% with Boyega's criticism of his experiences on Star Wars. A complete mess of a trilogy with his character treated appallingly, alongside the character of Rose, shamefully shunted into the background in TROS. After the first film there was potential for some interesting plot developments & character arcs but it was all thrown in the bin for TLJ & his character further relegated to a supporting role in the diabolical finale.
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Post by johnhurtdoctor on Sept 3, 2020 0:05:38 GMT
I’ve been thinking about this on and off since reading the interview this morning. It’s a fascinating interview, but I can’t help but feel that Boyega has got his argument a little mixed up. It was Abrams that penned The Force Awakens, the film which made Rey & Kylo the lead characters and put Rey in contact with Luke and put Finn in a coma. It was he who made Finn a cleaner on Starkiller Base and had Finn not hesitate when blowing up TIE Fighters and Stormtroopers. I appreciate the marketing showed Finn with the lightsaber, etc. but Boyega knew the reality before that had even begun. Whilst he’s one of the leads, I think it’s naive to think that he’d be on equal footing with the villain, who’s Han & Leia’s son, and the Jedi of the piece. It has nothing to do with their colour and Boyega did excellent to win the part outright, given the role of Finn didn’t specify skin colour. Johnson picked up from there and carried on Finn’s arc. As much as I love The Last Jedi I think there’s a better B plot where Finn & Rose are on the Executor instead of Canto Bight and there’s more hints towards his Force sensitivity. I don’t think he’s badly served in the film, though, and it’s a natural continuation of his arc from The Force Awakens and feels more rounded. I wish the alternative take on his fight with Phasma was used too. As much as I enjoy the film, it’s The Rise of Skywalker where he’s poorly served. No continuation of his story and the stuff with Rose is abandoned. There’s a lot of scope for Finn in the film; to have trained with Rey and to have lead a Stormtrooper rebellion. The hints are there, but they’re not developed and I’m baffled as to why Boyega is defensive of Abrams in that respect. It’s like a ticklist means more to him than the actual development or screen time. I could go on to mention that The Rise of Skywalker doesn’t paint its POC cast in the best light; Poe is given a drug smuggling background and Rose is all but relegated. I don’t understand how he could say that TLJ didn’t know how to use POC but is fine with TROS. Personally, I don’t think it’s a case of their skin colour being how they’re utilised, but if you’re going to make that argument then at least make it properly. There’s valid stuff in his argument; the hairdresser stuff is appalling and could’ve been very dangerous. The poster change for the Chinese Market is unfortunate. I’m just not convinced it’s Disney being racist or anything like that; it’s just Star Wars always struggling with its non-Jedi/Sith characters; I always think of Han & Leia being in Return of the Jedi for the sake of it. It’s always been the same. And there’s a number of reasons for it without race coming into play. As I said, it’s a fascinating interview with lots of valid points and Boyega is a great guy and very likeable. I’m fixating on his Star Wars experience quotes partially because this is the thread topic, but mainly because I think his views on it are misplaced and I’m having difficulty understanding it. Unfortunate? No, it IS racist. |
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Post by shallacatop on Sept 3, 2020 7:08:14 GMT
I’ve been thinking about this on and off since reading the interview this morning. It’s a fascinating interview, but I can’t help but feel that Boyega has got his argument a little mixed up. It was Abrams that penned The Force Awakens, the film which made Rey & Kylo the lead characters and put Rey in contact with Luke and put Finn in a coma. It was he who made Finn a cleaner on Starkiller Base and had Finn not hesitate when blowing up TIE Fighters and Stormtroopers. I appreciate the marketing showed Finn with the lightsaber, etc. but Boyega knew the reality before that had even begun. Whilst he’s one of the leads, I think it’s naive to think that he’d be on equal footing with the villain, who’s Han & Leia’s son, and the Jedi of the piece. It has nothing to do with their colour and Boyega did excellent to win the part outright, given the role of Finn didn’t specify skin colour. Johnson picked up from there and carried on Finn’s arc. As much as I love The Last Jedi I think there’s a better B plot where Finn & Rose are on the Executor instead of Canto Bight and there’s more hints towards his Force sensitivity. I don’t think he’s badly served in the film, though, and it’s a natural continuation of his arc from The Force Awakens and feels more rounded. I wish the alternative take on his fight with Phasma was used too. As much as I enjoy the film, it’s The Rise of Skywalker where he’s poorly served. No continuation of his story and the stuff with Rose is abandoned. There’s a lot of scope for Finn in the film; to have trained with Rey and to have lead a Stormtrooper rebellion. The hints are there, but they’re not developed and I’m baffled as to why Boyega is defensive of Abrams in that respect. It’s like a ticklist means more to him than the actual development or screen time. I could go on to mention that The Rise of Skywalker doesn’t paint its POC cast in the best light; Poe is given a drug smuggling background and Rose is all but relegated. I don’t understand how he could say that TLJ didn’t know how to use POC but is fine with TROS. Personally, I don’t think it’s a case of their skin colour being how they’re utilised, but if you’re going to make that argument then at least make it properly. There’s valid stuff in his argument; the hairdresser stuff is appalling and could’ve been very dangerous. The poster change for the Chinese Market is unfortunate. I’m just not convinced it’s Disney being racist or anything like that; it’s just Star Wars always struggling with its non-Jedi/Sith characters; I always think of Han & Leia being in Return of the Jedi for the sake of it. It’s always been the same. And there’s a number of reasons for it without race coming into play. As I said, it’s a fascinating interview with lots of valid points and Boyega is a great guy and very likeable. I’m fixating on his Star Wars experience quotes partially because this is the thread topic, but mainly because I think his views on it are misplaced and I’m having difficulty understanding it. Unfortunate? No, it IS racist. No, you’re right. I’ve just had another look at the poster and it’s less drastically altered than I remembered it being. It’s only Finn that has been relegated. |
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Post by kurumais on Sept 5, 2020 17:15:13 GMT
the whole time i was watching rise of the skywalker i kept thinking this cast deserves a much better movie. i was hoping they would do a movie with finn and lando going to look where finn
and the other former stormtroopers came from. they left that plot line dangling. i would see that movie.
my buddy and i also want a darth vader tv show that takes place right after revenge of the sith. anakin has to deal with his losses and becoming a cyborg. and becoming the emperor's enforcer
and assassin. we arent going to have the great james earl jones forever. lets get on it disney.
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Post by aussiedoctorwhofan on Sept 5, 2020 21:34:59 GMT
the whole time i was watching rise of the skywalker i kept thinking this cast deserves a much better movie. i was hoping they would do a movie with finn and lando going to look where finn and the other former stormtroopers came from. they left that plot line dangling. i would see that movie. my buddy and i also want a darth vader tv show that takes place right after revenge of the sith. anakin has to deal with his losses and becoming a cyborg. and becoming the emperor's enforcer and assassin. we arent going to have the great james earl jones forever. lets get on it disney. I would love personally, a Mos Eisley cantina tv show- even a mini series..
Years ago I was hanging out for a bounty hunter tv show- all the known ones from the original 3 together.. Then we got the Mandalorian which is great..
So much room in this universe... Captain Phasma ! Surely there's a solid story there, I have the book haven't read it yet..
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