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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2020 20:34:50 GMT
Btw didn’t mind Stranded on relistening 🤪
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Post by johnhurtdoctor on Sept 25, 2020 20:59:25 GMT
Nah...am an Aqua di Parma man lol...am more the great not sober tonight You're an Aqua di Parma Ham!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 26, 2020 6:36:08 GMT
Nah...am an Aqua di Parma man lol...am more the great not sober tonight You're an Aqua di Parma Ham! As in a nice bit of meat...so kind 😉
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Post by doctorkernow on Nov 27, 2020 3:21:27 GMT
Hello again.
Fans can very possessive of a franchise. A series like Doctor Who has something about it. An idea or set of characters that unleashes creativity and passion about a series.
In Doctor Who's case, I feel that fans have at times had a negative effect on the show. The reactions and behaviour of a minority have alienated the production team creating the show.
That said, it is great that Doctor Who has actively encouraged its fans to go and work in television or writing or design or music. Doctor Who also has some talented and creative fans who produce content purely for other fans to enjoy e.g the charming Doctor Puppet.
The recent Doctor Who Lockdown fan gallery had some great content, check out Turn Back in the Turn Left fan gallery, it's a super short story.
Doctor Who is a notoriously difficult show to write for and produce. Each new production team brings it own vision for the programme. Every so often, a new team takes the show a different way.
Fans having a direct role in a franchise, no thanks. Much as l'd like to ring up Mr Chibnall and say, "Now I don't think you should be writing it like this.."
It is a good thing, my advice would probably not be used.
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Post by nucleusofswarm on Jul 9, 2021 12:08:18 GMT
An unexpected revivial.
/
Anybody here want to guess what's wrong with that fan's suggestion, beside Liam's point? There'll be brownies.
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Post by timegirl on Jul 9, 2021 12:42:32 GMT
An unexpected revivial. / Anybody here want to guess what's wrong with that fan's suggestion, beside Liam's point? There'll be brownies. 1. “Better” is entirely subjective. How would they get whole fan bases to agree on who to send? Fan bases are often made up of almost mini tribes, just look at DW fandom. I could not see getting classic Who fans, new who fans, bf enthusiasts, and hardcore shippers to all unite and agree with each other on what fans are worthy to send to work on the official franchise. There would be ridiculous amount of unnecessary in fighting and discourse if such elections were to occur. 2. Hardcore fans eventually working for franchises is not unheard of but they should probably have the right training and experience first to work themselves up to that. 3. The current writers on any franchise often have set visions that took years of planning and would probably feel invaded by fans coming in midway through their projects and trying to change their plans. 4. Watch the episode “Simon Says” from “Inside Number 9” for a complete dramatization of why this would be a terrible idea.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2021 12:48:32 GMT
An unexpected revivial. / Anybody here want to guess what's wrong with that fan's suggestion, beside Liam's point? There'll be brownies. Well it's not a very nice thing to suggest to a Hobbit, for one thing...
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Post by nucleusofswarm on Jul 9, 2021 13:04:44 GMT
An unexpected revivial. / Anybody here want to guess what's wrong with that fan's suggestion, beside Liam's point? There'll be brownies. Well it's not a very nice thing to suggest to a Hobbit, for one thing... Based on the cropping of that picture's words, it also sounds like a painful activity for the hobbit.
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shutupbanks
Castellan
There’s a horror movie called Alien? That’s really offensive. No wonder everyone keeps invading you.
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Post by shutupbanks on Jul 10, 2021 2:03:48 GMT
An unexpected revivial. / Anybody here want to guess what's wrong with that fan's suggestion, beside Liam's point? There'll be brownies. Helene Hanff (author of 84, Charing Cross Road) wrote about her experiences trying to break into playwriting: she won a fellowship (I swear that picture of Pippin didn’t remind me of this) to study with a real theatre company and learn about scriptwriting. The previous two winners had been given the prize money and left to their own devices. The administrators decided that this wasn’t good enough for emerging young writers so they split the prize between 12 winners, also giving them proper training in how theatre works, giving them valuable learning experience. Some of the winners (about 4 iirc) then went on and worked in entertainment/ writing afterwards but NONE of them worked in theatre. The punchline was that the two previous winners - the ones who had been left to their own devices - were Tennessee Williams and Arthur Miller. RTD famously wrote to the BBC and asked what it would take to become a writer for Doctor Who. They told him that he needed to learn to write for television first. I think he’s the rare fan that managed to do that.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2021 6:21:39 GMT
An unexpected revivial. / Anybody here want to guess what's wrong with that fan's suggestion, beside Liam's point? There'll be brownies. Helene Hanff (author of 84, Charing Cross Road) wrote about her experiences trying to break into playwriting: she won a fellowship (I swear that picture of Pippin didn’t remind me of this) to study with a real theatre company and learn about scriptwriting. The previous two winners had been given the prize money and left to their own devices. The administrators decided that this wasn’t good enough for emerging young writers so they split the prize between 12 winners, also giving them proper training in how theatre works, giving them valuable learning experience. Some of the winners (about 4 iirc) then went on and worked in entertainment/ writing afterwards but NONE of them worked in theatre. The punchline was that the two previous winners - the ones who had been left to their own devices - were Tennessee Williams and Arthur Miller. RTD famously wrote to the BBC and asked what it would take to become a writer for Doctor Who. They told him that he needed to learn to write for television first. I think he’s the rare fan that managed to do that. Even then, it took a considerable while before he did, Davies started working at the Welsh branch of the BBC in 1985. Twenty years of industry experience for him to get from Point A to Point B (with Dark Season, Children's Ward, Century Falls and Damaged Goods in between). Many, many, many people go through with ideas of how things "should" be done, but there are few who have the patience to see if it can be done. I don't think that has much to do with fans, though, really. Not after a certain point. It's much more to do with people in general.
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Post by nucleusofswarm on Jul 10, 2021 8:26:44 GMT
Helene Hanff (author of 84, Charing Cross Road) wrote about her experiences trying to break into playwriting: she won a fellowship (I swear that picture of Pippin didn’t remind me of this) to study with a real theatre company and learn about scriptwriting. The previous two winners had been given the prize money and left to their own devices. The administrators decided that this wasn’t good enough for emerging young writers so they split the prize between 12 winners, also giving them proper training in how theatre works, giving them valuable learning experience. Some of the winners (about 4 iirc) then went on and worked in entertainment/ writing afterwards but NONE of them worked in theatre. The punchline was that the two previous winners - the ones who had been left to their own devices - were Tennessee Williams and Arthur Miller. RTD famously wrote to the BBC and asked what it would take to become a writer for Doctor Who. They told him that he needed to learn to write for television first. I think he’s the rare fan that managed to do that. Even then, it took a considerable while before he did, Davies started working at the Welsh branch of the BBC in 1985. Twenty years of industry experience for him to get from Point A to Point B (with Dark Season, Children's Ward, Century Falls and Damaged Goods in between). Many, many, many people go through with ideas of how things "should" be done, but there are few who have the patience to see if it can be done. I don't think that has much to do with fans, though, really. Not after a certain point. It's much more to do with people in general. In general yes - I think many want to do only what they absolutely need to, and the rest of the time they just want for whatever is amusing. However, I do there's a very specific version of this with fans, what a showrunner summarized as 'they think they're an investor in the property because they bought a ticket'. I was remarking on Twitter that too many want to be backseat showrunners (a joke in screenwriting circles is that a random guy will come up to you and say 'I've got a great idea' (oh, so many 'great ideas', let's work together but you do the actual writing'), thinking that consuming 'critical media' is the same thing as engaging in the nuts and bolts writing process. Hindsight will always afford you a different perspective than when you're in the midst of trying to crack a story - no matter how analytical you are, it's your work and you won't be able to fully take the blinders off so some things may get missed. Especially not with a deadline, which is a concept some in fandom don't get.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2021 9:29:06 GMT
Even then, it took a considerable while before he did, Davies started working at the Welsh branch of the BBC in 1985. Twenty years of industry experience for him to get from Point A to Point B (with Dark Season, Children's Ward, Century Falls and Damaged Goods in between). Many, many, many people go through with ideas of how things "should" be done, but there are few who have the patience to see if it can be done. I don't think that has much to do with fans, though, really. Not after a certain point. It's much more to do with people in general. In general yes - I think many want to do only what they absolutely need to, and the rest of the time they just want for whatever is amusing. However, I do there's a very specific version of this with fans, what a showrunner summarized as 'they think they're an investor in the property because they bought a ticket'. I was remarking on Twitter that too many want to be backseat showrunners (a joke in screenwriting circles is that a random guy will come up to you and say 'I've got a great idea' (oh, so many 'great ideas', let's work together but you do the actual writing'), thinking that consuming 'critical media' is the same thing as engaging in the nuts and bolts writing process. Hindsight will always afford you a different perspective than when you're in the midst of trying to crack a story - no matter how analytical you are, it's your work and you won't be able to fully take the blinders off so some things may get missed. Especially not with a deadline, which is a concept some in fandom don't get. Time is that great leveler in production processes, yeah. Doctor Who is filled to the brim with quite wonderful behind-the-scenes stories like director Paddy Russell having to pinch cameras to film Horror of Fang Rock or Michael Wisher missing a teleprompter for his reporter character The Ambassadors of Death, so he fakes it for the benefit of the shot. There is so much ingenuity that gets tossed around when push comes to shove, it's amazing. The more I learn about it, the more it's kind of great to find so many cast and crew still enthusiastic about the series, because it's not easy. It looks easy, but that's part of the trick. If we're talking about official productions, it's like any job, you need a resume. That's why when someone is determined to get from their initial ideas to a solid state of development, people take notice. Those that tend to make the transition aren't only invested as fans, but also as creators. They learn how and why these processes work. What makes something sing and when it's time to reconsider. And, if there is one universal truth, content creators -- create. Collaboratively. They have to meet somewhere in the middle or the whole thing just doesn't work. Creators, particularly creators willing to walk that journey, are so treasured for that reason. Anyone can swing around an opinion. But, it's truly special to see someone take a dream and make it real.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2021 14:02:55 GMT
An unexpected revivial. / Anybody here want to guess what's wrong with that fan's suggestion, beside Liam's point? There'll be brownies. Helene Hanff (author of 84, Charing Cross Road) wrote about her experiences trying to break into playwriting: she won a fellowship (I swear that picture of Pippin didn’t remind me of this) to study with a real theatre company and learn about scriptwriting. The previous two winners had been given the prize money and left to their own devices. The administrators decided that this wasn’t good enough for emerging young writers so they split the prize between 12 winners, also giving them proper training in how theatre works, giving them valuable learning experience. Some of the winners (about 4 iirc) then went on and worked in entertainment/ writing afterwards but NONE of them worked in theatre. The punchline was that the two previous winners - the ones who had been left to their own devices - were Tennessee Williams and Arthur Miller. RTD famously wrote to the BBC and asked what it would take to become a writer for Doctor Who. They told him that he needed to learn to write for television first. I think he’s the rare fan that managed to do that. Actually, I think loads of fans did - Cornell, Gatiss, Chibnall, etc. But yes, the lesson from all of them is that if a fan wants to be involved in creating a show they need to put in the hard miles and prove themselves good enough for the job.
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Post by fitzoliverj on Jul 10, 2021 16:47:31 GMT
Hang on, is that a picture of a movie hobbit on the right? Because Peter Jackson's movies definitely come across as that he is *convinced* he's better than the original writers whose work he is adapting, and he's not done quite so much original stuff in recent years.
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Post by nucleusofswarm on Jul 10, 2021 16:51:50 GMT
Hang on, is that a picture of a movie hobbit on the right? Because Peter Jackson's movies definitely come across as that he is *convinced* he's better than the original writers whose work he is adapting, and he's not done quite so much original stuff in recent years. I'm not aware of Jackson ever saying he was better than Tolkien, nor did I ever get that impression watching the films.
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Post by fitzoliverj on Jul 10, 2021 18:33:07 GMT
nor did I ever get that impression watching the films. But he makes changes for no apparent storytelling reason, eg turning the two 'posh' Hobbits into comedy Orisih stereotypes, changing Captain Haddock's nationality (he was always supposed to be, if not English, then English-ish) and introducing tiresome bodily-function jokes (and he doesn't even use the genuinely-funny 'galliard' joke, although that might be copyright to the English translations). Now, you may approve of these decisions, but nevertheless, it's examples of the adapter overrrulling the original author inprecisely the kind of manner objected to.
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Post by nucleusofswarm on Jul 10, 2021 19:35:41 GMT
nor did I ever get that impression watching the films. But he makes changes for no apparent storytelling reason, eg turning the two 'posh' Hobbits into comedy Orisih stereotypes, changing Captain Haddock's nationality (he was always supposed to be, if not English, then English-ish) and introducing tiresome bodily-function jokes (and he doesn't even use the genuinely-funny 'galliard' joke, although that might be copyright to the English translations). Now, you may approve of these decisions, but nevertheless, it's examples of the adapter overrrulling the original author inprecisely the kind of manner objected to. I don't think those are marks of arrogance (and in the case of Tintin, that's not on Jackson as he didn't write or direct it, he was only a producer), just likely decisions because of whatever was in his personal taste. I don't think RTD getting rid of the Timelords means he thought he was better than Terrance Dicks or Bob Holmes, as a counter-example).
(On a personal note, I mentally have the Nelvana voices in my head when I read Tintin so I hear pseudo Canadian-Mid Atlantic, but even then, I never got much of a sense of 'Englishness' from Haddock anyway from just the text so him being Scottish doesn't bug me. I think Serkis did a really solid job. Unless I'm remembering wrong, I don't think the books themselves ever say Haddock was raised in England, just his ancestor was a British privateer. In fact, now that I think about it, the geography of Marlinspike Hall's a little strange isn't it? I guess it's meant to be in England, but the building and the surrounding land always felt more Western Europe to me.)
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Post by johnhurtdoctor on Jul 10, 2021 19:54:34 GMT
nor did I ever get that impression watching the films. But he makes changes for no apparent storytelling reason, eg turning the two 'posh' Hobbits into comedy Orisih stereotypes, changing Captain Haddock's nationality (he was always supposed to be, if not English, then English-ish) and introducing tiresome bodily-function jokes (and he doesn't even use the genuinely-funny 'galliard' joke, although that might be copyright to the English translations). Now, you may approve of these decisions, but nevertheless, it's examples of the adapter overrrulling the original author inprecisely the kind of manner objected to. Its just one creative adapting a piece of work in another medium, a bit different to the topic being discussed.
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