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Post by johnhurtdoctor on May 19, 2021 15:10:34 GMT
I like the UNIT range, but the curator...oh dear.
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Post by shallacatop on May 19, 2021 15:13:14 GMT
I'll be honest, I could do without The Eleven. I think he's quickly become overused and I was expecting his departure in Ravenous to begin the easing of the character. I'd prefer another incarnation if they felt the need to use the character.
I'm excited about the inclusion of The Curator, though. He makes absolute sense to have involvement with UNIT, although it had never occurred to me until this announcement!
The synopsis for Fire and Ice intrigues me. It's a younger Harry on the cover, but presumably it's modern day Harry unless Kate & Osgood time travel somehow. I can't remember if Naomi is in the present day or not. For all I know, this could be addressed in the 4DA's later on but we get a sneak peek of it this year.
Just to reiterate what I said previously, the format of a sweeping 16-part epic seems befitting of UNIT as a concept. I think this will remove the big reset button the range pulls with each set. Hopefully we get some original threats in the later sets too and the wider UNIT team introduced, as Nemesis 1 only seems to include Josh.
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2021 15:15:46 GMT
I'll be honest, I could do without The Eleven. I think he's quickly become overused and I was expecting his departure in Ravenous to begin the easing of the character. I'd prefer another incarnation if they felt the need to use the character. I'm excited about the inclusion of The Curator, though. He makes absolute sense to have involvement with UNIT, although it had never occurred to me until this announcement! The synopsis for Fire and Ice intrigues me. It's a younger Harry on the cover, but presumably it's modern day Harry unless Kate & Osgood time travel somehow. I can't remember if Naomi is in the present day or not. For all I know, this could be addressed in the 4DA's later on but we get a sneak peek of it this year. Just to reiterate what I said previously, the format of a sweeping 16-part epic seems befitting of UNIT as a concept. I think this will remove the big reset button the range pulls with each set. Hopefully we get some original threats in the later sets too and the wider UNIT team introduced, as Nemesis 1 only seems to include Josh. I seem to remember in the original news article it actually drew attention to the fact Harry is young and in modern day so i think thats very much a plot element
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Post by denyer97 on May 19, 2021 15:21:50 GMT
I’ll reserve (too much) judgement until I actually hear it but with the details so far, it doesn’t excite me. Harry, Ice Warriors, The Curator, The Eleven; first impressions are it seems to be repeating the mistakes the previous box sets (besides ‘Shutdown’) made by relying so heavily on already existing characters and monsters. I haven’t so far seen the point of the Curator’s inclusion in the Stranded box sets so have next to no faith he’s going to be utilised well in this box set and I think the Eleven was great in his early stories but these days it feels like he’s being bled dry.
All we need is River Song crammed in somewhere and then we’ve got a full house.
The cover is nice and the stories sound interesting though I guess.
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Post by ollychops on May 19, 2021 15:27:13 GMT
Have to agree with the above posters'... I like the Eleven as a character but feels like he's being overused. I thought he was going to be used more sparingly after Ravenous/Dark Universe but it seems not. Guess it makes sense to include him when you have a talent like Mark Bonnar though.
Interested to see The Curator back, as well as the mystery as to why Harry and Naomi are in present day... I like the idea of interlinking threads (a crossover with the 4DAs with Harry and Naomi and Stranded with the Curator involved too). I was expecting the Ice Warriors to be a bigger threat in this set, but it looks like they might just be in the one story...
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Post by theillusiveman on May 19, 2021 15:36:26 GMT
Several things:
Harry Sullivan should be much older why didn’t the cover artist simply age him to make sense
Agian The Eleven seriously 😒 they couldn’t have used any other incarnations?
This will be the first non multi Doctor story the curator will have so that’s neat
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Post by BHTvsTFC on May 19, 2021 15:38:57 GMT
Same old... same old...
Expect Nyssa, Ace, Leela, Jo and K9 to be added in the next few weeks.
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Post by themeddlingmonk on May 19, 2021 15:42:49 GMT
Several things: Harry Sullivan should be much older why didn’t the cover artist simply age him to make sense Agian The Eleven seriously 😒 they couldn’t have used any other incarnations? This will be the first non multi Doctor story the curator will have so that’s neat It’s Harry from 70s/80s, we just don’t know why he and Naomi are in the present day yet. Possibly because the Fourth Doctor has dropped them off but who knows.
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Post by ollychops on May 19, 2021 15:45:46 GMT
Several things: Harry Sullivan should be much older why didn’t the cover artist simply age him to make sense
Agian The Eleven seriously 😒 they couldn’t have used any other incarnations? This will be the first non multi Doctor story the curator will have so that’s neat When UNIT: Nemesis was announced, David Richardson was quick to point out that it was a young Harry in the 21st Century so pretty sure it's intentional. Presumably it's an arc that they're setting up.
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2021 15:56:17 GMT
I’ll reserve (too much) judgement until I actually hear it but with the details so far, it doesn’t excite me. Harry, Ice Warriors, The Curator, The Eleven; first impressions are it seems to be repeating the mistakes the previous box sets (besides ‘Shutdown’) made by relying so heavily on already existing characters and monsters. I haven’t so far seen the point of the Curator’s inclusion in the Stranded box sets so have next to no faith he’s going to be utilised well in this box set and I think the Eleven was great in his early stories but these days it feels like he’s being bled dry. All we need is River Song crammed in somewhere and then we’ve got a full house. The cover is nice and the stories sound interesting though I guess. Kinda in the same boat really. BF are smart enough to know that they can't do too much with the character of The Curator (and I doubt they'd be allowed to) beyond some very vague background actions and hints. Yet they want to use the character as a big bit of lore from the New Series that doesn't have a set beginning or end so it's a bit liberating. And gives them the chance to use Tom, which surely shifts some more *ahem* UNITs. Bit of a dichotomy there and one that would only get more obvious the more appearances the character makes. The other returning elements too..yeah, it does seem a bit like we're at a point, which was always a concern for me, that over-saturation meant that gimmicks were the selling point. When people are subscribing via pre-order to just "Doctor Who", like the Main Range, they're paying for something without knowing what it was. When every release is more likely to be sold as a one off, there are short cuts and hooks that I guess keep things fresh and encourage pre-orders for some .Yet for me it starts to be a bit of self-cannibalisation where too much is "event", too many crossovers and not enough is sold, or conceived, on the premise. Then when a big event merits a crossover it doesn't feel special, or as special, as it could as we see big things all the time now. It's catch 22 I suppose as BF are clearly trying to make the sets as marketable as possible while maintaining quality but they have to compromise on the checklist content to make sure the set is appealing enough to a broader demo. And I'm not sure how broad that even is given The Eleven is an audio original. Not gonna tempt TV viewers new to BF into listening for the first time. Again..I think that balance of including gimmicks while not seeming "gimmicky" works for a while. You mentioned River and she illustrates it best - she's had as many stories with McGann as she did with Matt I bet. As long as the stories turn out strong I'm ultimately fine but it's been a long time since the kitchen sink approach did much for me when announcing things with clear exceptions like Tennant and Tom, THE two icons, sharing a story.
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Post by mark687 on May 19, 2021 15:58:58 GMT
Several things: Harry Sullivan should be much older why didn’t the cover artist simply age him to make sense
Agian The Eleven seriously 😒 they couldn’t have used any other incarnations? This will be the first non multi Doctor story the curator will have so that’s neat already been revealed elsewhere on initial announcement that somehow it is the younger Harry Regards mark687
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Post by sherlock on May 19, 2021 15:59:37 GMT
Ah damn, guess UNIT’s still crossover ground zero then.
I get that Big Finish love working with Mark Bonnar and love the Eleven, but he’s been in quite a lot now. If they want to keep using the Collective (as that is still inherently brilliant concept) why not one of 9 incarnations we’ve never heard before. I was left feeling I’d heard everything I needed to from the villain by the end of Ravenous, rather than begging for more.
I’ve never really seen the Curator as anything other than an Easter Egg. He’s something a writer can throw in as a nod (see the excellent TLV short story Canaries) more than he is a character. I haven’t heard Stranded at all, so maybe that fleshed him out more. But otherwise I don’t really see any reason to be excited by his presence.
Harry and Ellie just being around in this time period is an oddity, but I guess that’s the point. They’re more intriguing to me as they’re a part of a storyline we’ve not heard at all before, rather than a past character dropping in to do their thing (I know Harry is an old character, but his partnership with Ellie is an unknown quantity at least). The Ice Warrior story they’re in does sound most interesting of the set.
Also it’s clear that this UNIT saga is post-Day of the Doctor, but oddly no indication of the Zygon status quo in the synopses.
Honestly was hoping this new start would kick the UNIT series into gear, but it’s sounding awfully like the same old, same old again. I will wait on reviews I think.
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2021 16:05:05 GMT
With regards to The Curator, I was actually thinking of him the other day. Given the divisive response to The Timeless Children and him being presumably a future Doctor, it would be kinda cool in any 60th special on TV if he's involved in resolving that arc given Jodie said it isn't done. Tom's Doctor helping the current one understand things sells it to the audience more (they're clearly gonna give Tom a more sympathetic ear) and it allows Chibnall the chance to tidy up the rather clunky (even though I like the concept) way it was presented to the audience. And it gives a cotinuity between the 50th and the 60th in the way having Troughton return for both did. That's my fanjodrelly idea anyway!
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Post by Shiny on May 19, 2021 16:06:34 GMT
And I thought this release was exciting when it was just Harry, Naomi and the Ice Warriors making guest appearances.
I'm a bit apprehensive about the Curator. While I didn't mind him appearing in Stranded, I'm worried about the character appearing in too many releases. Like the Valeyard, it feels like there are only so many releases you can include him in before you start to reveal too much about the character. Still, I shouldn't judge before I've actually heard the stories.
As for the Eleven, I'm delighted by his inclusion. I can understand that some might be tired of the character, but for me it's the more the better. I hope he isn't in Fire and Ice though. I don't want him taking the focus away from the Ice Warriors.
Between this, Stranded 3 and the Ninth Doctor finally facing the Cybermen, November is going to be an big month.
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2021 16:23:13 GMT
Ah damn, guess UNIT’s still crossover ground zero then. I get that Big Finish love working with Mark Bonnar and love the Eleven, but he’s been in quite a lot now. If they want to keep using the Collective (as that is still inherently brilliant concept) why not one of 9 incarnations we’ve never heard before. I was left feeling I’d heard everything I needed to from the villain by the end of Ravenous, rather than begging for more. I’ve never really seen the Curator as anything other than an Easter Egg. He’s something a writer can throw in as a nod (see the excellent TLV short story Canaries) more than he is a character. I haven’t heard Stranded at all, so maybe that fleshed him out more. But otherwise I don’t really see any reason to be excited by his presence. Harry and Ellie just being around in this time period is an oddity, but I guess that’s the point. They’re more intriguing to me as they’re a part of a storyline we’ve not heard at all before, rather than a past character dropping in to do their thing (I know Harry is an old character, but his partnership with Ellie is an unknown quantity at least). The Ice Warrior story they’re in does sound most interesting of the set.
Also it’s clear that this UNIT saga is post-Day of the Doctor, but oddly no indication of the Zygon status quo in the synopses.
Honestly was hoping this new start would kick the UNIT series into gear, but it’s sounding awfully like the same old, same old again. I will wait on reviews I think. Off topic rant coming but....I'd love them to find a way to change one of the things about the Moffat era I REALLY hate; Z-67. For those that have forgotten or never saw the Zygon Immersion/Inversion in S9, we find out that after Terror Of The Zygons, Harry invented a gas that would kill Zygons. And not just one Zygon - it would take to the atmosphere and in a chain-reaction kill all Zygons on the planet. And not peacefully either - it mutates their shapeshifting gene and turns them inside out... Capaldi's Doctor calls him an "imbecile" when he hears about it. Now, to me, that's all just a very silly way of getting to Capaldi being able to nod to Tom's kinda legendary "HARRY SULLIVAN IS AN IMBECILE" line. But if it has to involve Harry developing not just a weapon but something to cause genocide of an entire species then..yeah - can we write something in contradicting that at some point BF? Peter Harness, Steven Moffat and Peter Capaldi...you'd think one of them would have said "Doesn't really seem in keeping with Harry that, does it? Especially since he was literally with The Doctor debating genocide on Skaro" Capaldi - my fave Doc. Moffat (at his best) - my fave Who writer. But that few lines turning Harry into a monster just to get a cheap nostaglia pop from very few people for the "imbecile reference?" No, thank you. Not today.
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Post by grinch on May 19, 2021 17:15:49 GMT
Huh.
I must admit I thought the Ice Warriors were going to be the main antagonists of this set and I certainly didn’t expect the Eleven to be making an appearance.
Then again, after Dark Universe I didn’t expect him to be making another appearance and lo and behold he’ll be facing the Sixth Doctor later on this year.
Not that I’m complaining mind you, I really like Mark Bonnar as an actor and he’s obviously still enthusiastic about working with Big Finish which is always a plus. Still, I’d have to agree that I’d like to have seen another incarnation of the Eleven make their debut in this set.
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2021 18:46:41 GMT
I must admit after the triumph that was Dalek Universe 1 I am much more optimistic about returning elements. To me that set showed that whether its a returning element or not, its the quality of the writing that will make it stand so we shall see.
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Post by grinch on May 19, 2021 18:56:31 GMT
Ah damn, guess UNIT’s still crossover ground zero then. I get that Big Finish love working with Mark Bonnar and love the Eleven, but he’s been in quite a lot now. If they want to keep using the Collective (as that is still inherently brilliant concept) why not one of 9 incarnations we’ve never heard before. I was left feeling I’d heard everything I needed to from the villain by the end of Ravenous, rather than begging for more. I’ve never really seen the Curator as anything other than an Easter Egg. He’s something a writer can throw in as a nod (see the excellent TLV short story Canaries) more than he is a character. I haven’t heard Stranded at all, so maybe that fleshed him out more. But otherwise I don’t really see any reason to be excited by his presence. Harry and Ellie just being around in this time period is an oddity, but I guess that’s the point. They’re more intriguing to me as they’re a part of a storyline we’ve not heard at all before, rather than a past character dropping in to do their thing (I know Harry is an old character, but his partnership with Ellie is an unknown quantity at least). The Ice Warrior story they’re in does sound most interesting of the set.
Also it’s clear that this UNIT saga is post-Day of the Doctor, but oddly no indication of the Zygon status quo in the synopses.
Honestly was hoping this new start would kick the UNIT series into gear, but it’s sounding awfully like the same old, same old again. I will wait on reviews I think. Off topic rant coming but....I'd love them to find a way to change one of the things about the Moffat era I REALLY hate; Z-67. For those that have forgotten or never saw the Zygon Immersion/Inversion in S9, we find out that after Terror Of The Zygons, Harry invented a gas that would kill Zygons. And not just one Zygon - it would take to the atmosphere and in a chain-reaction kill all Zygons on the planet. And not peacefully either - it mutates their shapeshifting gene and turns them inside out... Capaldi's Doctor calls him an "imbecile" when he hears about it. Now, to me, that's all just a very silly way of getting to Capaldi being able to nod to Tom's kinda legendary "HARRY SULLIVAN IS AN IMBECILE" line. But if it has to involve Harry developing not just a weapon but something to cause genocide of an entire species then..yeah - can we write something in contradicting that at some point BF? Peter Harness, Steven Moffat and Peter Capaldi...you'd think one of them would have said "Doesn't really seem in keeping with Harry that, does it? Especially since he was literally with The Doctor debating genocide on Skaro" Capaldi - my fave Doc. Moffat (at his best) - my fave Who writer. But that few lines turning Harry into a monster just to get a cheap nostaglia pop from very few people for the "imbecile reference?" No, thank you. Not today. You and me both Davy. I never for one moment believed Harry would design such a weapon. Thankfully, there’s apparently a recent Short Trip that addresses it.
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Post by noneofyourbusiness on May 19, 2021 20:47:25 GMT
Off topic rant coming but....I'd love them to find a way to change one of the things about the Moffat era I REALLY hate; Z-67. For those that have forgotten or never saw the Zygon Immersion/Inversion in S9, we find out that after Terror Of The Zygons, Harry invented a gas that would kill Zygons. And not just one Zygon - it would take to the atmosphere and in a chain-reaction kill all Zygons on the planet. And not peacefully either - it mutates their shapeshifting gene and turns them inside out... Capaldi's Doctor calls him an "imbecile" when he hears about it. Now, to me, that's all just a very silly way of getting to Capaldi being able to nod to Tom's kinda legendary "HARRY SULLIVAN IS AN IMBECILE" line. But if it has to involve Harry developing not just a weapon but something to cause genocide of an entire species then..yeah - can we write something in contradicting that at some point BF? Peter Harness, Steven Moffat and Peter Capaldi...you'd think one of them would have said "Doesn't really seem in keeping with Harry that, does it? Especially since he was literally with The Doctor debating genocide on Skaro" Capaldi - my fave Doc. Moffat (at his best) - my fave Who writer. But that few lines turning Harry into a monster just to get a cheap nostaglia pop from very few people for the "imbecile reference?" No, thank you. Not today. You and me both Davy. I never for one moment believed Harry would design such a weapon. Thankfully, there’s apparently a recent Short Trip that addresses it. "Tuesday", as mentioned on Page 2.
Since the boxes were fake, I wouldn't be surprised if the gas were no more than a rumor entirely.
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Post by Sir Wearer of Hats on May 19, 2021 20:53:57 GMT
Ah damn, guess UNIT’s still crossover ground zero then. I get that Big Finish love working with Mark Bonnar and love the Eleven, but he’s been in quite a lot now. If they want to keep using the Collective (as that is still inherently brilliant concept) why not one of 9 incarnations we’ve never heard before. I was left feeling I’d heard everything I needed to from the villain by the end of Ravenous, rather than begging for more. I’ve never really seen the Curator as anything other than an Easter Egg. He’s something a writer can throw in as a nod (see the excellent TLV short story Canaries) more than he is a character. I haven’t heard Stranded at all, so maybe that fleshed him out more. But otherwise I don’t really see any reason to be excited by his presence. Harry and Ellie just being around in this time period is an oddity, but I guess that’s the point. They’re more intriguing to me as they’re a part of a storyline we’ve not heard at all before, rather than a past character dropping in to do their thing (I know Harry is an old character, but his partnership with Ellie is an unknown quantity at least). The Ice Warrior story they’re in does sound most interesting of the set.
Also it’s clear that this UNIT saga is post-Day of the Doctor, but oddly no indication of the Zygon status quo in the synopses.
Honestly was hoping this new start would kick the UNIT series into gear, but it’s sounding awfully like the same old, same old again. I will wait on reviews I think. Off topic rant coming but....I'd love them to find a way to change one of the things about the Moffat era I REALLY hate; Z-67. For those that have forgotten or never saw the Zygon Immersion/Inversion in S9, we find out that after Terror Of The Zygons, Harry invented a gas that would kill Zygons. And not just one Zygon - it would take to the atmosphere and in a chain-reaction kill all Zygons on the planet. And not peacefully either - it mutates their shapeshifting gene and turns them inside out... Capaldi's Doctor calls him an "imbecile" when he hears about it. Now, to me, that's all just a very silly way of getting to Capaldi being able to nod to Tom's kinda legendary "HARRY SULLIVAN IS AN IMBECILE" line. But if it has to involve Harry developing not just a weapon but something to cause genocide of an entire species then..yeah - can we write something in contradicting that at some point BF? Peter Harness, Steven Moffat and Peter Capaldi...you'd think one of them would have said "Doesn't really seem in keeping with Harry that, does it? Especially since he was literally with The Doctor debating genocide on Skaro" Capaldi - my fave Doc. Moffat (at his best) - my fave Who writer. But that few lines turning Harry into a monster just to get a cheap nostaglia pop from very few people for the "imbecile reference?" No, thank you. Not today. In Harry’s defence - it’s entirely possible he didn’t intend to create a WMD and violate his oath as a doctor. He could have been trying to create an anaesthetic or a gas that simply caused Zygons to revert to default appearance. He is, after all, a medical doctor not a chemist. He simply messed up and created a war crime waiting to be used. and what do we hear happens next? UNIT decides to keep it anyway and EVERY sample is stolen “mysteriously” and in a way that could only be done if the thief has a TARDIS. UNIT knows to keep things like war crimes from the Doctors. Kate seemed aggrieved that the gas was stolen. Therefore someone (and we can probably narrow the field to three people) informed the Doctor. One of the Osgoods. Harry himself. Alistair Lethbridge-Stewart. It was most likely Harry because thst is exactly the sort of chap he is, come up with some grand plan, mess it up and realising how badly he messed up make amends. The Osgoods are techies, not chemists and there is a suggestion that the gas is one of UNIT’s older developments, so possible before her time. Lethbridge-Stewart is old school, gas weapons are a no-no, but he’s also a practical man. We don’t know if he’d draw a hard line on having something that is effective “just in case”. We hope he would, but we know Harry would. and there is one final thing we know about the gas - it doesn’t actually exist (anymore) as it’s a key part of The Two Box solution to crises in Human/Zygon relations. Kate thinks it does. The UNIT records shows it does. The Doctor says it does.... but the Doctor lies. Harry is the only person who could be convincingly part of the conspiracy to create the gas BUT ALSO someone who, for Queen and Country, would wear the shame of being called a war criminal for the greater good. The people who matter in this situation, the Osgoods and the Doctors, know he’s innocent. That’s the quiet heroism of Harry Sullivan, allowing himsel to be called a potential war criminal in order to ensure peace.
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