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Post by nucleusofswarm on Apr 24, 2021 0:07:39 GMT
Been a while since I did, ostensibly, a more serious thread.
So, I'm sure many of you have probably seen, maybe been thought, of the practicality question when it comes to discussions about education and schooling in older kids/teens. The battle between pushing arts, philosophy and more high brow subjects, pursuing knowledge and culture in ways that are not directly connected to work, versus what are seen as life skills like fixing a car, doing taxes, balancing finances etc. and making people ready for the adult workplace.
Do you think there is a place for this, or do you feel this is the responsibility of others, like family, and not on the school system?
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Post by aussiedoctorwhofan on Apr 24, 2021 0:10:41 GMT
YES.. Back in my primary school days up till the mid 80's, we did a very basic 1st aid course. 100% yes basic car maintenance. There should also be a budgeting/accounting type for final year high school students.. When you get out in the real world you need to learn how to budget and $ave..
Oh and yes final responsibility is on the family ..
There was a news story here about 10 years ago.. a just-turned-18 year old in Australia won a $600K+ house in a state lottery and she thought she could party 24/7 with her mates.. Her parents sat her down and gave her a life lesson on all utility bills in Australia...... She said she was "shocked" ..
Nothing's free...
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Post by relativetime on Apr 24, 2021 1:18:15 GMT
Car maintenance definitely needs to be covered in Driver’s Ed at the very least. Definitely, definitely. Back when I was in high school, my school was also offering some other classes that were supposed to teach you how to do some basic money management and taxes. I remember it wasn’t very well structured though, and I think due to budget cuts the school was forced to stop offering it. I really wish they could have expanded it and ironed the issues out. Now that I’m an adult, I regret that it wasn’t a better class because all of what’s it was supposed to be teaching would be VERY useful right now.
I’m all for schools trying to teach kids important life skills and I think it would definitely be helpful if teachers could provide kids some idea of what it would take, in theory, to start a successful career. “Preparing them for the workplace” should never be the soul purpose of school, though. I feel like we already put so much pressure on kids to become part of this whole “workforce” anyways when education should be so much more than simply training a company’s future employees for them. I feel the objective of schools should primarily be create informed citizens of a democratic community.
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Post by Digi on Apr 24, 2021 3:28:57 GMT
It's a blind spot for me for sure, but....I also don't really mind? If my car is doing something weird, I take it to the mechanic. If I need a tow, I call the auto club. Driving for just shy of 20 years now, and have never run into a situation that wasn't solved by doing one of those two things.
First aid and basic personal accounting though, absolutely.
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shutupbanks
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Post by shutupbanks on Apr 24, 2021 4:07:07 GMT
What are you dropping from the current curriculum in order to make room for these new classes? There’s only a certain number of hours in the week that we can keep students in school and they’re already pretty much nailed down for other subjects. I’m also pretty sure that there’s a subject called “manual arts” that caters to the more mechanically-minded students and that it’s also compulsory for the first couple of years of high school. I also remember doing “commercial knowledge” as a subject in high school. The options are there for students to learn this stuff.
We only have students for a set number of hours a day and each subject only gets a set number of hours a year. There’s loads we’d love to include or do more on but we just physically can’t. Maybe parents could take an interest in what their kids are interested in show them themselves or maybe point them in the direction of organisations that can help. Heaven forbid that parents do some actual damned nurturing of their own spawn.
</rant>
(Sorry: this is something that crops up every few months whenever there’s a story about “what kids don’t know that they apparently should.” I’m just fed up with my profession copping flak for not doing everything that parents should be doing.)
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Post by aussiedoctorwhofan on Apr 24, 2021 7:34:51 GMT
What are you dropping from the current curriculum in order to make room for these new classes? There’s only a certain number of hours in the week that we can keep students in school and they’re already pretty much nailed down for other subjects. I’m also pretty sure that there’s a subject called “manual arts” that caters to the more mechanically-minded students and that it’s also compulsory for the first couple of years of high school. I also remember doing “commercial knowledge” as a subject in high school. The options are there for students to learn this stuff. We only have students for a set number of hours a day and each subject only gets a set number of hours a year. There’s loads we’d love to include or do more on but we just physically can’t. Maybe parents could take an interest in what their kids are interested in show them themselves or maybe point them in the direction of organisations that can help. Heaven forbid that parents do some actual damned nurturing of their own spawn. </rant> (Sorry: this is something that crops up every few months whenever there’s a story about “what kids don’t know that they apparently should.” I’m just fed up with my profession copping flak for not doing everything that parents should be doing.) I did high school middish 80's to very early 90's.. I did "Tech Studies" which was electronics, woodwork, plastics.. No mechanics. Maybe if should fit under the banner of Tech Studies if that is still a subject?
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Post by Chakoteya on Apr 24, 2021 8:46:01 GMT
Back after I got off the Ark, the sixth form were offered various free after-school courses... computer programming on a remote Honeywell terminal, ballroom dancing, shorthand and typing and... basic care and maintenance of cars. Not so much electronic gubbins on them in those days of course, but we were pointed to the oil dipstick, water reservoir, tyre pressure gauge and how to change a wheel. (Handy hint, loosen the wheel nuts before lifting it on the jack.) These days, I think at least drumming POWDERY into wannabe drivers might be a good idea. Petrol/fuel, Oil, Damage, Water, Electrics, Rubber, Yourself - are you really fit to drive? I'm sure the local branch of the Institute of Advanced Motorists and / or community police would love to get involved in these sorts of projects. A properly maintained vehicle is a safer vehicle. But there's not always much you can do about the loose nut behind the steering wheel...
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shutupbanks
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There’s a horror movie called Alien? That’s really offensive. No wonder everyone keeps invading you.
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Post by shutupbanks on Apr 24, 2021 10:04:56 GMT
What are you dropping from the current curriculum in order to make room for these new classes? There’s only a certain number of hours in the week that we can keep students in school and they’re already pretty much nailed down for other subjects. I’m also pretty sure that there’s a subject called “manual arts” that caters to the more mechanically-minded students and that it’s also compulsory for the first couple of years of high school. I also remember doing “commercial knowledge” as a subject in high school. The options are there for students to learn this stuff. We only have students for a set number of hours a day and each subject only gets a set number of hours a year. There’s loads we’d love to include or do more on but we just physically can’t. Maybe parents could take an interest in what their kids are interested in show them themselves or maybe point them in the direction of organisations that can help. Heaven forbid that parents do some actual damned nurturing of their own spawn. </rant> (Sorry: this is something that crops up every few months whenever there’s a story about “what kids don’t know that they apparently should.” I’m just fed up with my profession copping flak for not doing everything that parents should be doing.) I did high school middish 80's to very early 90's.. I did "Tech Studies" which was electronics, woodwork, plastics.. No mechanics. Maybe if should fit under the banner of Tech Studies if that is still a subject? As part of the orientation process for primary school students I’ve done tours of local high schools so that students can get an idea of what’s available for them. At least two of them (and that’s just out of the few that I’ve been to) have offered a mechanical engineering option - one of which was where a teacher spent part of the subject budget at a local wreckers buying a banger and the kids spent a semester getting it roadworthy. They then sold it on and the money raised bought the following year’s car. These course/ units/ options are out there these days.
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Post by sherlock on Apr 24, 2021 10:36:36 GMT
As I still can’t drive, it would’ve been wasted on me.
Though being taught how the tax system works probably would’ve been helpful.
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Post by number13 on Apr 24, 2021 12:13:47 GMT
Schools and teachers have always worked more than hard enough teaching the academic stuff most of us can't just 'pick up', which is why we have professional academics. There are no 'easy' practical subjects anyway beyond very very basics that anyone should be able to pick up, so to teach a meaningful amount would fill a curriculum.
For example, cars - can you top up the oil and the water (if you still have an internal combustion engine, of course) and change a wheel and maybe fit a new battery and wiper blades? If not, then read the car handbook and see how to do it. If yes, then that's the practical limit without a lot of skills. (Which is why we have professional tradespeople and why good ones sometimes seem so hard to find!) Same for cooking, DIY, gardening etc. etc. I can cook enough to eat, and do some basic DIY because I wanted to, and I've taught myself quite a lot about gardening because I enjoy it.
Virtually anyone should be able - and to be expected to be able - to teach themselves those and similar basics if they can't do the traditional thing and learn them from their parents.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2021 14:20:54 GMT
I was fortunate back around 1994-5 when doing light haulage (self employed) that I enrolled on a Mechanics course for a while. As I was one of the non apprentices or home mechanics on the course, I did not get many big jobs to work on, but with the help of others, did some jobs on my Volvo 245, such as changing the cylinder head gasket, putting on a new water pump, brake pads and sticking callipers and fixing the exhaust.
The point was, by learning how relatively simple the core elements are (or were), I was no longer intimidated by the seeming complexity of the engine and drivetrain, plus basic electricals such as the alternator.
Keeping up to date as others say, by learning how ones own cars typically go wrong means that I am usually pretty accurate in identifying faults. For example my XKR had a Gearbox Fault for which the specialist replaced the gearbox, whereas I insisted it was electrical, related to the dynamic stability control and not mechanical (there was some wear, but that was not triggering the fault code.
I was proven correct when it transpired eventually (onto the second replacement gearbox - his expense) that it was a wheel speed sensor that was triggering the safe mode of the auto gearbox. Likewise when at work in the car park or elsewhere doing simple maintenance such as topping up the Oil or Water Coolant, people look at the supercharged V8 4.2 and remark that they would not like to venture anywhere near it. I have to add that there is nothing the matter and I am just doing basics to keep it healthy.
A colleague once could not get his Fiesta started and seemed to look to me as some sort of expert. I got it started pretty much in seconds to which he thought it was magic. I informed him that he had simply caught the throttle on starting up and flooded the cylinders with fuel. It made me appreciate that many people do not get even these fundamentals, such as first holding down and pumping the throttle to flush the combustion chambers out, so that continuous ignition can take place again.
Such courses and skills are a good thing for non-academic students who would have once gone down the Technical College route and really put them on the pathway to gaining confidence in being able to do something well, rather than being force fed classroom exam based subjects, where they are always knocked down for being 'thick'. It has been noted that a Vehicle Mechanic has as much detailed technical knowledge as an IT specialist, but is assumed to be unintelligent because he/she is not academic. It is a key cause of many instances of institutionalised classroom behaviour problems. Give them the self esteem in a practical, vocational environment, and many so called 'wrong uns' can and do become ideal pupils.
But unfortunately such courses cost money and contribute little to exam league tables, so get the axe. The same goes for Beautician courses for the Girls, So they just go back into the classroom, attempting to grasp the theory for exams they are destined to fail. So yes, I think there is a case for teaching such things in school, but you would encounter much resistance from those students who see it as beneath them, something you pay lesser people to do for you, which in turn would embarrass the genuinely interested. Far better for a provision as a pathway that provides a recognised foundation qualification in School and not just the College.
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Post by fitzoliverj on Apr 24, 2021 14:23:37 GMT
I can't see the value in teaching car maintenance to a bunch of kids who can't necessarily drive.... It might be a better idea to make a basic understanding of what's under the bonnet a necessary part of the licence test.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2021 3:14:42 GMT
What are you dropping from the current curriculum in order to make room for these new classes? There’s only a certain number of hours in the week that we can keep students in school and they’re already pretty much nailed down for other subjects. I’m also pretty sure that there’s a subject called “manual arts” that caters to the more mechanically-minded students and that it’s also compulsory for the first couple of years of high school. I also remember doing “commercial knowledge” as a subject in high school. The options are there for students to learn this stuff. We only have students for a set number of hours a day and each subject only gets a set number of hours a year. There’s loads we’d love to include or do more on but we just physically can’t. Maybe parents could take an interest in what their kids are interested in show them themselves or maybe point them in the direction of organisations that can help. Heaven forbid that parents do some actual damned nurturing of their own spawn. </rant> (Sorry: this is something that crops up every few months whenever there’s a story about “what kids don’t know that they apparently should.” I’m just fed up with my profession copping flak for not doing everything that parents should be doing.) Something like "car maintenance" sounds like a topic that would be covered under extracurricular knowledge nowadays, yeah. Two of the most valuable courses I did for logistical reasoning were Business and Philosophy were electives. Learning how to write a cover letter, compile an invoice (with an understanding of GST) and compose a rational argument feel like vital life skills, but the problem is definitely one of time. If all else fails and the subject can't be covered even in a cursory way, I remember -- and this is a tactic I employ myself -- teachers tend to point students towards resources they can use to explore the topic in greater detail. It's a vital bit of ethos: education does not (or, at least, it should not) end at the classroom. Formal schooling, perhaps, but not an education.
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Post by Timelord007 on Apr 25, 2021 8:15:32 GMT
Yes the choice should be a option at least.
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Post by Chakoteya on Apr 25, 2021 9:05:15 GMT
I can't see the value in teaching car maintenance to a bunch of kids who can't necessarily drive.... It might be a better idea to make a basic understanding of what's under the bonnet a necessary part of the licence test. So... how to use a voltmeter and how to top up the washer bottle. With the advance of battery-powered vehicles, the basics of internal combustion that I learnt in physics (suck, squish, bang, spit) will become redundant. So many cars don't even carry spare tyres any more so no need to know how to change one.
I'm still going to promote POWDERY (see my previous post or do a search on it in relation to motoring safety) as a good all-purpose basic for all young people who travel in vehicles, not just the driver.
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Post by Ela on Oct 13, 2022 15:44:18 GMT
It would be helpful. Probably would have prevented my spouse trying to add motor oil through the dipstick hole, first time he tried to add oil to his car...  Even I knew enough not to do that. 
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Post by whiskeybrewer on Oct 14, 2022 16:59:53 GMT
Yeah i think this would be something perfect to teach. Something hands on and with real world applications
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Post by tuigirl on Oct 14, 2022 17:15:12 GMT
Yes. It makes no sense to me that we all (boys and girls) learned to knit and sow, but nobody taught any of us ever how to maintain a car. We did however do a course in school about fire fighting / prevention and were allowed to battle fires with fire extinguishers. That was fun.
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Stevo
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Post by Stevo on Oct 14, 2022 18:36:12 GMT
Checking oil, water and air pressure in tyres, topping up oil and water and how to change a wheel should form part of the driving test.
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Post by Ela on Oct 14, 2022 18:45:12 GMT
I believe my father taught me that stuff when I first started driving.
I knew in theory how to change a tire, but the way they put on tires these days with power operated tools, it’s extremely difficult to loosen the bolts. So I usually call for help with that from the motoring association I pay an annual fee to.
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