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Post by johnhurtdoctor on Oct 17, 2021 14:21:43 GMT
I feel a moderator response is needed here. I hope everyone, including timegirl , will read all of it carefully before responding or jumping to conclusions. I agree and the moderators agree that timegirl has nothing to apologize for. I’m not sure why she feels guilty or feels she has to apologize when someone disagrees with her about something and or when someone jumps to her defense. The person who needs to apologize here, actually, is barnabaslives . His posts aimed at Davy on Thursday were frankly over the top, rude, and uncalled for. For that, he has earned himself a temporary ban from the forum. Davy was not picking on timegirl, bullying her, or trolling. Davy was and has been expressing a difference of opinion with timegirl about the relationship between Clara and 12. He is not the only one to have that difference of opinion, but he is one of the only ones to publicly express his opinion. Others have contacted us privately to remark about the frequency of timegirl’s posts on the topic. But most on this forum have refrained from entering into discussion about it with timegirl publicly on the forum or have just scrolled by her posts about it altogether, because any attempt to offer a different opinion results in a series of responses from timegirl that end up in her feeling hurt and picked on, and feeling she has to take a break from the forum. And no one is trying to deliberately hurt timegirl’s feelings or pick on her. This has been explained to her privately. I'd like to say that disagreeing with someone on an open forum is not the same as bullying, gaslighting, or picking on someone. If you post on a forum, you have to accept that people will disagree, and that people will respond if you constantly try to prove they are wrong, as she does, by continuing to offer evidence supporting her ideas. It's great to have an opinion, but it's also good to gracefully accept that others may have a different opinion. That's the way it goes on a forum. Since we have heard from a number of people who feel a bit overwhelmed by timegirl’s posts about the Clara-12 relationship in every thread, we contacted timegirl privately to ask her to consider limiting her conjectures about Clara-12 shipping to one or two dedicated threads, and to ask her if she could limit fan picture posts to one thread in the forum where most folks post their fan pictures or fan art, in the " General" section of The Writers and Creatives Room board. We moderators were already discussing how to gently approach her on this topic when Thursday's kerfuffle broke out. timegirl apparently decided to take another break from the forum after the last PM on the topic was sent to her, I don't know if her decision was a direct result of that conversation, as she hasn't indicated that to us one way or the other. I do hope she will consider our request regarding her posts about Clara-12 and that she will come back to the forum when she feels ready. She’s certainly entitled to post her ideas, but when it’s in every thread, it starts to stray into soap boxing, which is one of the topics dealt with in the forum rules. OK, I've read all of it, and I'm not comfortable. I don't think it's particularly appropriate for everyone to see what discussions have been held privately with moderators, and I'm not especially enamoured of the way it sounds those dealings between the moderators and timegirl were going. On which note, after six years, I'm out. Agree 100%, in fact I think it contradicts somewhat the content of the 'Lowering the temperature in the room' post - "all reports/PMs are confidential. No one will ever know that you've reported them except the moderation team." While no one was named it has now been made public that there have been a number of reports about timegirl & discussions about her have been ongoing within the moderation team. If anything this has made a bad situation even worse. Would I suggest that Ela reconsiders their role as a moderator? Yes I would.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2021 16:46:15 GMT
I'm going to defend Ela and not just because Ela defended me but I think it's my fault inadvertently. I believe I broke confidences I didn''t know were private when I said Barbabas was on a short term ban when posting in the heat of the other day. While my intention was (and is) still to just say when Barnabas and Timegirl return, that I'll have zero issue with either one of them and look forward to moving on. My wording, I think, led some to assume Timegirl had been banned and rumours did what rumours will do.
So, I apologise to Ela for causing the flack she has taken for only trying to explain what has been a rather gossippy affair. I also want to apologise to Barnabas, I assumed the ban showed on a profile, like a permanent one and it was not my place to make his business public regardless of what was said by whom to who. And I apologise to Timegirl if I gave anyone the false impression she had been "punished".
And, of course, to all of you who have read Ela's post - I apologise as it's me who should be the target of any complaint, not Ela.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2021 21:28:27 GMT
I've been thinking this forum has been going downhill of late, so much so that sometimes when I've been feeling down I've thought about taking a break or leaving. However, it's actually the charm of Timegirl and her passion for some er... passion in the TARDIS with Twelve & Clara, plus the posts of sensible people like Davy and Ela (and a good few more) that give me the 'feeling of home' when I'm here. Neither Davy or Ela deserve any flack from where I sit, as Davy was only expressing an opinion whilst Ela was doing her best (as she always does) to calm a hot situation down, which as a moderator is her job. Everyone seems to be going a bit OTT of late here and getting annoyed at silly stuff. Has the world got so polarised that we can't have different points of view any more? That's how it seems to be going here.
Timegirl should never have had to apologise for her enthusiasm or be made to feel bad because she wants to see Clara & Twelve have a romance... if people here have a problem reading her posts then there is an ignore function built in to the forum. The fact we've a whole thread because someone has been made to feel they need to say sorry is embarrassing for us all here. How did we get this way?
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I’m sorry
Oct 17, 2021 21:36:19 GMT
via mobile
Post by grinch on Oct 17, 2021 21:36:19 GMT
I've been thinking this forum has been going downhill of late, so much so that sometimes when I've been feeling down I've thought about taking a break or leaving. However, it's actually the charm of Timegirl and her passion for some er... passion in the TARDIS with Twelve & Clara, plus the posts of sensible people like Davy and Ela (and a good few more) that give me the 'feeling of home' when I'm here. Neither Davy or Ela deserve any flack from where I sit, as Davy was only expressing an opinion whilst Ela was doing her best (as she always does) to calm a hot situation down, which as a moderator is her job. Everyone seems to be going a bit OTT of late here and getting annoyed at silly stuff. Has the world got so polarised that we can't have different points of view any more? That's how it seems to be going here.
Timegirl should never have had to apologise for her enthusiasm or be made to feel bad because she wants to see Clara & Twelve have a romance... if people here have a problem reading her posts then there is an ignore function built in to the forum. The fact we've a whole thread because someone has been made to feel they need to say sorry is embarrassing for us all here. How did we get this way?
To be honest Stevo, I’ve also considered leaving as well. What with the amount of good members that have already ‘jumped ship’ it seems this definitely isn’t the place it used to be.
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Post by theillusiveman on Oct 17, 2021 21:46:55 GMT
Wow i didn't realize how bad things have gotten in all honestly i must admit i was tempted several times to delete my account and leave this place for good but there a handful of lovely decent people on here which make me want to stay.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2021 22:08:01 GMT
I think it's been a bad week all round. No-one wanted Barnabas to be banned (or at least before his posts), no-one wanted Timegirl to feel she should leave (though feeling people are against you when they aren't isn't within the other person''s control, especially when someone else is stoking the flames telling you how you should feel) and none of the mods wanted any of this. Ela did nothing but what she thought was right. All I ask from a mod, especially since they're people with lives and jobs and families too. They can't sit and deliberate for days when things kick off. I suggest not that we "forget this and move on" because we don't learn from that. But maybe just try posting in normal threads, and see if we can do better. Make it a warmer place where we can be proud to say "hey, welcome to the forum" and someone wants to stick around. We've got new Doctor Who in 2 weeks - we can have plenty of discussion over that. (I'll be in the right, whatever I say - FYI ) but we can do what this place has done at it's best - talk. Recognise our differences of opinion and celebrate that we care enough to have them. Just...be kind, 'n that. All of us.
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Post by nucleusofswarm on Oct 17, 2021 22:42:38 GMT
Davy, you're aces and don't put this on your shoulders anymore than timegirl should. I PM'd Ela as I said, and while I won't disclose what was said here, be assured it wasn't criticism or some manner of put down - I don't want anyone to retire or leave here. I just talked about something that didn't sit right with me - that's all. Ela's ace too!
Like I said to timegirl earlier here, I hope all this will serve as a moment of reflection and learning for the DU. This is a wonderful place full of wonderfully bright, mad and vivid persons, timegirl very much included, but sometimes, it's worth pausing and considering a little more before posting something that only serves to hurt or upset. We aren't reddit or gallifreybase - this isn't who we are. We stuck together through a world-changing pandemic, through the sad loss of Jason and through many a personal trial here and been a source of comfort when members have been lonely or lost. I do silly threads like the Vs. or 'pickle' for reasons like that - give everyone something fun at the end of a long week. Our inclusion has always been our strength and our pride. We must not lose sight of that - just get back to doing what we do best.
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Post by whiskeybrewer on Oct 18, 2021 1:14:13 GMT
When in doubt.....blame Michael Grade.
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Post by tuigirl on Oct 18, 2021 7:23:38 GMT
Amen to the previous few posts. My thoughts exactly. We have had a good, welcoming, inclusive community here. And we should learn from this and at least try to continue our good track record. To throw it all away just because of some drama is definitely not worth it. I also have realized that communication around here (and also on other sides and of course in real life) has become much more difficult, people are on edge, it is hard to have civilized conversations and expressing opinions without people being mad at you or branding you as the enemy. I have that even in my own family. I am someone who cherishes good civilized discussions and I like other people expressing their oposing opinions. I think it is fruitful and you can learn a lot. What I want to say is, yes, I can understand that people are on edge, I myself are wading through stress and drama at work, and I find it hard to calm down when I come home at night. I understand that things can get heated and that things will be said in the heat of the moment. That is only natural. But I would be very sad if we lost this community and everything we have built just because of that. My 2 cents.
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Post by Timelord007 on Oct 18, 2021 7:52:01 GMT
Listen up, the last 18 months have seen the world change & many of us have lost loved ones either through covid or other illnesses.
This year for me has been hell, losing my father to covid while very ill myself with the virus which resulted having the ambulance out twice because i was struggling to breath. 2021 has had me at my all time lowest i don't know how i got through it as it's been soul destroying.
I wanted end my life many times this year, i feel i failed as a son, we were told on the Wednesday dad had days to live & that we wasn't allowed to see him so the only way to communicate was though mobile calls.
Now think about it your parent dying & you can't see them & dad said to me if you know I'm going die never tell me so when i spoke to him on mobile i had lie & say everything will be ok, get well & you'll be home soon while i was choking back the tears because i knew the end was near, the same week fraudsters tried hack my parents account ringing posing as fraud security, the day dad died they rang saying money been taken from my parents account so instead of grieving & supporting mom i was sorting out this mess with the help of the police as i sensed this was a scam, those scumbags robbed me of my grief & to this day I'm so consumed by anger over it.
When i was diagnosed with Type 2 diabetes i virtually said f.ck it & went into a dark depressive mood.
I came on this forum to express what had happened & i was greeted by some kind warm heartfelt messages by several members, Aussiedoctorwhofan has been amazing & supported me like a brother, Wolfe sent me wonderful messages of advice & support, thelliusiveman has pm me with kind words along with many others on this forum.
Families fight, families fall out but familes also forgive & it's about god damm time we stop fighting & start forgiving and forgetting because life's too short to argue & hold grudges.
We built this forum together when the old forum was deleted because we all wanted to keep in contact with each other & share our thoughts, opinions & stories on Doctor Who & other stuff so lets get back to being that community & become a family forum again.
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Post by coffeeaddict on Oct 18, 2021 8:18:59 GMT
Our hope is that this will clear the air and settle this matter once and for all.
As others have stated, normally we do not publicly discuss issues brought to us by members of the forum, however, in this instance we felt it was appropriate as timegirl had already made some of the particulars public. Furthermore, the moderation comment posted by Ela, was one the whole Team agreed to and supported. This is a practice we employe in making any decision, and as such, not be construed as having been something done lightly or individually.
This situation blew up due to opinions which were presented in a highly civil manner being misconstrued as bullying which necessitated disciplinary action we would have preferred not to have to had take.
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