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Post by sherlock on Apr 4, 2020 15:22:26 GMT
Hey guys, I’m new to this forum and have been working on River Songs Timeline myself for like ten years haha! So have lots of input in this (I swear I’ve revisited it a crazy number of times) Just working on a complete one with everything myself at the moment. Most of my main timeline is similar to what is discussed on here with a few key changes though, thought I’d like to ask some opinions and just splatter gun my ten years worth of problems: 1. Regarding vortex manipulators: Either she has only one in which case all vortex is post Pandorica or she has multiple Problem with the former is that Pandorica river is already portrayed with a battered diary, she seems older and references good man goes to war before she leaves. Yet good man goes to war and in fact most river stories (second first/last night river, day of the moon) contain a vortex manipulator so we would have very few stories in between her first night and the Pandorica despite her diary being so warn and her seeming so much older and being understanding of a younger doctor not knowing her well. Problem with the latter is why does she need to get a Pandorica vortex manipulator if she already had one (granted she loses it sometimes later when she is professor), and secondly we have yet to see a younger version get one (though in student bodies it does mention she steals one from the university so this could be a get out here?) Do you guys stick to the vortex post Pandorica or not? As sticking to this can detract from her reverse order storyline (though this is t perfect I know) 2. In the legend books she is a professor whilst still in Stormcage, yet in the audios TDORS2 she says she becomes a professor after (I have allowed this as her meaning she became an actual teaching professor, which also explains a lot of there later stories involving her archaeology or students) 3. She has a sonic trowel often and sometimes a screwdriver, though also in TDORS2 it is debated what it is she made herself, and in animal instinct it’s a pen torch. Thoughts on this? I feel this gives lee way dependent on interpretation. 4. Given up till day of the moon at least River believe she travels in reverse, so we need that as much as possible where we can (so Rain Gods which has a much older doctor makes sense to have a much younger river and she hasn’t a vortex manipulator, so this should go after first night to deepen the Doctor getting more forgetful part of their story) there is no reason that the restaurant they were going to is darillium as this is just in their early Stormcage date phase where they went to all sorts of places. (I have all sorts of input but just thought I put a few and see your opinions, can also share my timeline once I’ve dealt with R+J lol (wtf is up with River attacking nine?)) 1. I think we have to assume she had a vortex manipulator prior to The Pandorica Opens. Presumably her first one either broke or was destroyed, forcing her to barter with Dorium. The Eternity Clock (which is set in the same year as The Pandorica Opens) shows her having to steal her manipulator back before leaving Stormcage, implying it’s been confiscated. Perhaps when she returned to her cell after that story, the Stormcage decided to destroy the manipulator. 2. Your assumption works. She gained the qualifications to be a professor whilst in prison, but didn’t teach anyone till after being pardoned. A fudge, but hardly the biggest reach in continuity. 3. I think her sonic device is something is something of a work in progress. She bases on it on the screwdriver so initially calls it that, later tries it as a pen torch and eventually settles on a trowel. 4. Rain Gods as an early date works fine. I’ll alter my own timelines with that in mind. I haven’t heard R & J but what little I’ve gathered about it from the wiki confuses me immensely. |
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Post by themeddlingmonk on Apr 4, 2020 16:03:47 GMT
Hey guys, I’m new to this forum and have been working on River Songs Timeline myself for like ten years haha! So have lots of input in this (I swear I’ve revisited it a crazy number of times) Just working on a complete one with everything myself at the moment. Most of my main timeline is similar to what is discussed on here with a few key changes though, thought I’d like to ask some opinions and just splatter gun my ten years worth of problems: 1. Regarding vortex manipulators: Either she has only one in which case all vortex is post Pandorica or she has multiple Problem with the former is that Pandorica river is already portrayed with a battered diary, she seems older and references good man goes to war before she leaves. Yet good man goes to war and in fact most river stories (second first/last night river, day of the moon) contain a vortex manipulator so we would have very few stories in between her first night and the Pandorica despite her diary being so warn and her seeming so much older and being understanding of a younger doctor not knowing her well. Problem with the latter is why does she need to get a Pandorica vortex manipulator if she already had one (granted she loses it sometimes later when she is professor), and secondly we have yet to see a younger version get one (though in student bodies it does mention she steals one from the university so this could be a get out here?) Do you guys stick to the vortex post Pandorica or not? As sticking to this can detract from her reverse order storyline (though this is t perfect I know) 2. In the legend books she is a professor whilst still in Stormcage, yet in the audios TDORS2 she says she becomes a professor after (I have allowed this as her meaning she became an actual teaching professor, which also explains a lot of there later stories involving her archaeology or students) 3. She has a sonic trowel often and sometimes a screwdriver, though also in TDORS2 it is debated what it is she made herself, and in animal instinct it’s a pen torch. Thoughts on this? I feel this gives lee way dependent on interpretation. 4. Given up till day of the moon at least River believe she travels in reverse, so we need that as much as possible where we can (so Rain Gods which has a much older doctor makes sense to have a much younger river and she hasn’t a vortex manipulator, so this should go after first night to deepen the Doctor getting more forgetful part of their story) there is no reason that the restaurant they were going to is darillium as this is just in their early Stormcage date phase where they went to all sorts of places. (I have all sorts of input but just thought I put a few and see your opinions, can also share my timeline once I’ve dealt with R+J lol (wtf is up with River attacking nine?)) 1. I think we have to assume she had a vortex manipulator prior to The Pandorica Opens. Presumably her first one either broke or was destroyed, forcing her to barter with Dorium. The Eternity Clock (which is set in the same year as The Pandorica Opens) shows her having to steal her manipulator back before leaving Stormcage, implying it’s been confiscated. Perhaps when she returned to her cell after that story, the Stormcage decided to destroy the manipulator. 2. Your assumption works. She gained the qualifications to be a professor whilst in prison, but didn’t teach anyone till after being pardoned. A fudge, but hardly the biggest reach in continuity. 3. I think her sonic device is something is something of a work in progress. She bases on it on the screwdriver so initially calls it that, later tries it as a pen torch and eventually settles on a trowel. 4. Rain Gods as an early date works fine. I’ll alter my own timelines with that in mind. I haven’t heard R & J but what little I’ve gathered about it from the wiki confuses me immensely. Basically a lot of R+J doesn’t make sense. So like the scene with Nine is either a continuity error or something to do with an upcoming story. The Legends of River Song has River with two Vortex manipulators at once at one point and River loses her vortex manipulator a few times in the audios so it’s safe to assume she goes through them like they’re going out of fashion. And yeah with the sonic devices, she builds her own based on the sonic and then goes through several different potential names for it until presumably settling on trowel, as you say. |
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Post by ollychops on Nov 29, 2020 10:34:21 GMT
So the Tenth Doctor and River Song stories don't really give many clues in the way of placements for River. Anyone have any suggestions?
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Post by Whovitt on Nov 29, 2020 10:59:51 GMT
So the Tenth Doctor and River Song stories don't really give many clues in the way of placements for River. Anyone have any suggestions? Given the "typically backwards" nature of their relationship, I'd put them in the order of Ghosts, Precious Annihilation, then Expiry Dating all just before Husbands. I've nothing to substantiate any of that, but it's as good a place as any. |
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Post by shallacatop on Feb 11, 2021 12:26:03 GMT
Anyone got any thoughts on The Diary of River Song 8? I didn’t pick up on any specific placements really. It seems strange to have had two River sets recently that are quite standalone affairs in comparison to R&J or Volume 7, which have some more direct ties!
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Post by ollychops on Feb 14, 2021 16:27:36 GMT
Anyone got any thoughts on The Diary of River Song 8? I didn’t pick up on any specific placements really. It seems strange to have had two River sets recently that are quite standalone affairs in comparison to R&J or Volume 7, which have some more direct ties! Bearing in mind I haven't listened to Series 2 since it came out, I'm presuming that Slight Glimpses of Tomorrow & A Brave New World take place after The Eye of the Storm. Drix calls River "Professor Song" and she references the events of The Wedding of River Song in A Forever Home so any time after The Angels Take Manhattan is good. In Queen of the Mechonoids, she introduces herself as Dr Song, so this story has to be earlier in River's timeline. |
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Post by shallacatop on Feb 14, 2021 17:11:28 GMT
Anyone got any thoughts on The Diary of River Song 8? I didn’t pick up on any specific placements really. It seems strange to have had two River sets recently that are quite standalone affairs in comparison to R&J or Volume 7, which have some more direct ties! Bearing in mind I haven't listened to Series 2 since it came out, I'm presuming that Slight Glimpses of Tomorrow & A Brave New World take place after The Eye of the Storm. Drix calls River "Professor Song" and she references the events of The Wedding of River Song in A Forever Home so any time after The Angels Take Manhattan is good. In Queen of the Mechonoids, she introduces herself as Dr Song, so this story has to be earlier in River's timeline. Yeah, that’s pretty much my take too. References which give you a general idea, but nothing explicit, although I can’t remember the Wedding mention off the top of my head. |
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Post by themeddlingmonk on Feb 14, 2021 17:16:52 GMT
So the Tenth Doctor and River Song stories don't really give many clues in the way of placements for River. Anyone have any suggestions? Given the "typically backwards" nature of their relationship, I'd put them in the order of Ghosts, Precious Annihilation, then Expiry Dating all just before Husbands. I've nothing to substantiate any of that, but it's as good a place as any. Doesn't River mention that she’s in prison towards the end of Expiry Dating? |
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Post by Whovitt on Feb 14, 2021 21:52:56 GMT
Given the "typically backwards" nature of their relationship, I'd put them in the order of Ghosts, Precious Annihilation, then Expiry Dating all just before Husbands. I've nothing to substantiate any of that, but it's as good a place as any. Doesn't River mention that she’s in prison towards the end of Expiry Dating? Listened to it three months ago, so I honestly couldn't say. Like I said before though, I've nothing to substantiate the order I suggested, so any further ideas are welcome. |
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Post by Ricky on Feb 16, 2021 11:03:57 GMT
The 'Professor' vs. 'Doctor' thing gets a bit confusing when you get to The Husbands of River Song, when Nardole confirms that she sometimes goes by 'Professor', but mostly 'Doctor'.
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Post by themeddlingmonk on May 22, 2021 15:47:23 GMT
I’ve recently finished the audiobook of The Ruby's Curse, it was great and I’d highly recommend it. Its almost definitely set between The Angels Take Manhattan and The Husbands of River Song, but there’s some space for doubt which I’ll explain in a moment. {The Rubys Curse }
So at the beginning River is living in New York in 1939 and is writing to support Amy and Rory who are still settling into their new life. She mentions the original Melody Malone book from Angels Take Manhattan, and also The Angel's Kiss which in-universe is potentially entirely fictional. I suppose it’s perfectly possible that it’s based on true events but River doesn’t say as much.
So she starts working on another book called The Ruby's Curse and breaks into Stormcage in 5147 to write it without any distractions. And that’s when she gets caught up in the plot of the story which I wont go much further into.
Captain Jack appears for a brief cameo later on when River needs to break back out of Stormcage. Basically she sends a distress signal for the Doctor to pick her up and it gets passed on to Jack instead. They already know each other so it doesn’t contradict R&J at all which is great. For Jack it’s set shortly after Revolution of the Daleks, with him mentioning that he’s been needed for a lot of jailbreaks recently.
The Thirteenth Doctor also makes a very very brief cameo appearance towards the end of the book. Basically River takes control of a reality altering device and uses it to take herself “home”. But then the power is too much and she starts to lose control of herself. Luckily enough “home” isn’t a place for River, it’s the Doctor. So the Thirteenth Doctor and River have a sort of mind-meld moment where the Doctor helps her back to her normal self. River is pretty nonchalant about the existence of a post-Smith Doctor and basically just comments on the fact the Doctor is a woman as being new but she’ll roll with it. So quite different from her attitude in Husbands. But honestly there’s really nothing in the novel except her brief meeting with Thirteen that suggests she’s already been through Husbands and really it doesn’t feel as though she has for most of it. I think I’m more willing to believe she assumes that Thirteen is just a product of the reality altering device she’s using and didn't actually believe that she was a real incarnation of the Doctor.
Amy and Rory also appear for a bit and it ties into Rory's Story from Lockdown as River passes the Melody Malone book series on to Amy, who is established as being the author of them in Rory's Story.
The cool thing is this novel gives us a reason to have a bigger gap between The Angels Take Manhattan and The Husbands of River Song due to the fact that River is living in New York, so theoretically she can pop out for adventures but will then return to Manhattan afterwards, meaning she’ll still have been there recently in Husbands. |
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Post by shallacatop on Jun 2, 2021 13:14:48 GMT
I’ve recently finished the audiobook of The Ruby's Curse, it was great and I’d highly recommend it. Its almost definitely set between The Angels Take Manhattan and The Husbands of River Song, but there’s some space for doubt which I’ll explain in a moment. {The Rubys Curse }
So at the beginning River is living in New York in 1939 and is writing to support Amy and Rory who are still settling into their new life. She mentions the original Melody Malone book from Angels Take Manhattan, and also The Angel's Kiss which in-universe is potentially entirely fictional. I suppose it’s perfectly possible that it’s based on true events but River doesn’t say as much.
So she starts working on another book called The Ruby's Curse and breaks into Stormcage in 5147 to write it without any distractions. And that’s when she gets caught up in the plot of the story which I wont go much further into.
Captain Jack appears for a brief cameo later on when River needs to break back out of Stormcage. Basically she sends a distress signal for the Doctor to pick her up and it gets passed on to Jack instead. They already know each other so it doesn’t contradict R&J at all which is great. For Jack it’s set shortly after Revolution of the Daleks, with him mentioning that he’s been needed for a lot of jailbreaks recently.
The Thirteenth Doctor also makes a very very brief cameo appearance towards the end of the book. Basically River takes control of a reality altering device and uses it to take herself “home”. But then the power is too much and she starts to lose control of herself. Luckily enough “home” isn’t a place for River, it’s the Doctor. So the Thirteenth Doctor and River have a sort of mind-meld moment where the Doctor helps her back to her normal self. River is pretty nonchalant about the existence of a post-Smith Doctor and basically just comments on the fact the Doctor is a woman as being new but she’ll roll with it. So quite different from her attitude in Husbands. But honestly there’s really nothing in the novel except her brief meeting with Thirteen that suggests she’s already been through Husbands and really it doesn’t feel as though she has for most of it. I think I’m more willing to believe she assumes that Thirteen is just a product of the reality altering device she’s using and didn't actually believe that she was a real incarnation of the Doctor.
Amy and Rory also appear for a bit and it ties into Rory's Story from Lockdown as River passes the Melody Malone book series on to Amy, who is established as being the author of them in Rory's Story.
The cool thing is this novel gives us a reason to have a bigger gap between The Angels Take Manhattan and The Husbands of River Song due to the fact that River is living in New York, so theoretically she can pop out for adventures but will then return to Manhattan afterwards, meaning she’ll still have been there recently in Husbands. Great breakdown. I picked up on your last point too, great for reconciling loads of additional adventures in that gap! I loved The Ruby's Curse, am looking forward to listening to the audiobook of it at some point too. |
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Post by mark687 on Aug 3, 2021 16:12:55 GMT
BFs Own Version
Regards
mark687
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Post by themeddlingmonk on Aug 3, 2021 16:57:21 GMT
It certainly seems to imply that most of her boxsets go between her pardoning and Husbands of River Song rather than after.
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Post by Tim Bradley on Aug 3, 2021 17:10:14 GMT
Someone will need to decipher the video in order to make the interconnections clearer.  Tim.  |
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Post by shallacatop on Aug 3, 2021 17:18:59 GMT
Great that Big Finish are putting out content like this and got Alex to do the voiceover. I think it’s ultimately a bit throwaway, as it’s very tongue in cheek and high level, but yeah, the general vibe I got is seemingly that Big Finish typically use the Flesh & Stone - The Husbands of River Song gap, where River’s pardoned.
Would like to see a more detailed version from BF actually. Could serve as their own thoughts, but also a nice recap of River at Big Finish, given her vast use the past six years.
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Post by kipperserver on Aug 4, 2021 18:08:52 GMT
BFs Own Version Regards mark687 I think this is brilliant. Written by Dorney too. |
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Post by sherlock on Oct 13, 2021 13:36:45 GMT
{Dalek Universe 3 Spoiler}
So it is River in The First Son, but because 99% of the story is playing it ambiguous with whether it’s her at all we don’t get any indication as to her timeline placement.
Anya does mention her encounter with River and the Mechanoids in front of her, so I guess after that maybe. |
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Post by shallacatop on Oct 29, 2021 7:10:24 GMT
Nothing crazy in The Diary of River Song 9 that I picked up on. I’d just place it after whatever the latest pre-Husbands is for the sake of neatness.
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Tim. 
