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Post by Audio Watchdog on Nov 3, 2022 0:34:43 GMT
Paradox is a lot of fun, it must have been a really tricky one for John Dorney to keep track of as he wrote it. For anyone feeling Dalek fatigue, please go into this with an open mind, it really is an entirely different beast than one would usually expect. If you enjoy a good farce or romp, this one's for you. I particularly enjoyed hearing a Dalek proclaim "whoever smelt it, dealt it!" Oh that sounds excruciating. He is actually correct. It is one of dorney’s better scripts of late and it works surprisingly well. I was quite taken with much to my surprise.
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Post by newt5996 on Nov 3, 2022 15:20:06 GMT
Finishing up Paradox of the Daleks today, it’s good but I’m quite a bit fatigued with the sheer number of Dalek stories we’ve been getting recently (two on television this year alone plus the eight releases so far. I kind of wish McGann gave a bit more of a romantic 8 performance a la his earlier self because that might have fit this story a lot better but I’m also kind of sick of grumpy 8 in general.
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Post by martinw8686 on Nov 3, 2022 16:30:11 GMT
"I kind of wish McGann gave a bit more of a romantic 8 performance a la his earlier self because that might have fit this story a lot better but I’m also kind of sick of grumpy 8 in general."[/quote]
I found 8 to be a lot more cheerful in both the stories on What Lies Inside, not quite his early romantic self but certainly a lot more fun loving and jokey.
I like it when 8 seesaws between joyful and grumpy, he's always struck me as a tragic character capable of such love and so vulnerable to loss and disappointment.
I remember a early play where he had his personality split in way that created 3 versions of 8, the original, the grumpy and the dippy romantic. He's always had a sort of dual romantic/grumpy split personality.
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Post by newt5996 on Nov 3, 2022 18:04:17 GMT
"I kind of wish McGann gave a bit more of a romantic 8 performance a la his earlier self because that might have fit this story a lot better but I’m also kind of sick of grumpy 8 in general."I found 8 to be a lot more cheerful in both the stories on What Lies Inside, not quite his early romantic self but certainly a lot more fun loving and jokey. I like it when 8 seesaws between joyful and grumpy, he's always struck me as a tragic character capable of such love and so vulnerable to loss and disappointment. I remember a early play where he had his personality split in way that created 3 versions of 8, the original, the grumpy and the dippy romantic. He's always had a sort of dual romantic/grumpy split personality. I definitely see that in The Daley Spook which I’m having a lot more fun with despite it being the shorter story. We’ve just in my mind have had a lot of the grumpy personality since it’s clear Dark Eyes was meant to lead into the Time War and then it didn’t.
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Post by martinw8686 on Nov 3, 2022 18:42:15 GMT
"I kind of wish McGann gave a bit more of a romantic 8 performance a la his earlier self because that might have fit this story a lot better but I’m also kind of sick of grumpy 8 in general."I found 8 to be a lot more cheerful in both the stories on What Lies Inside, not quite his early romantic self but certainly a lot more fun loving and jokey. I like it when 8 seesaws between joyful and grumpy, he's always struck me as a tragic character capable of such love and so vulnerable to loss and disappointment. I remember a early play where he had his personality split in way that created 3 versions of 8, the original, the grumpy and the dippy romantic. He's always had a sort of dual romantic/grumpy split personality. I definitely see that in The Daley Spook which I’m having a lot more fun with despite it being the shorter story. We’ve just in my mind have had a lot of the grumpy personality since it’s clear Dark Eyes was meant to lead into the Time War and then it didn’t. I'm halfway through The Dalby Spook and having a lot of fun with it too. I like grumpy 8 when he's outraged by villians or sad from the loss of friends but I'd like to see his bouncy Tigger side more often, I do like his playful sarcasm when teases bad guys, it reminds me of Tom Baker sometimes. I do feel that 8 needs to be darker during the time war, desperately looking for hope and fighting against the tide.
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Post by shallacatop on Nov 4, 2022 15:57:59 GMT
I wasn't as enamoured with Paradox of the Daleks as everyone else seems to be. I can see what it was going for, it just didn't work for me. It comes across as being clever, but as a listener it just felt like an hour of build up followed by an hour of explanation; I didn't feel I had the opportunity to be engaged by the mystery. I think on screen it may have been realised better, you can do these explanations much quicker and without dialogue, whereas on audio it has to be drawn out due to the nature of the medium. I also feel an hour would've sufficed and helped with some of the issues too.
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Post by pawntake on Nov 5, 2022 10:20:57 GMT
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Post by tuigirl on Nov 5, 2022 17:19:18 GMT
I listened to the Dalek Paradox last night, but I admit my attention was not quite with it, so I missed some bits. This is definitely a story that benefits from multiple listens. It is one of these intertwined timey- whimey stories that John Dorney does so well. It is a fun Dalek runaround, with a unique little twist to it. It is however more played for laughs and there is no substance to it.
I liked it, it made me smile, but I totally understand if other people find this completely irrelevant and fan- servicey. Because it is just that- fun fan- service.
I will not say more to avoid the spoiler. If you are in mind for some simple fun and games with 8 and Liv and Helen, just go in and enjoy the ride, best without knowing any more. If you are after some deep philosophical exploration of the meaning of life, this is not it. It is not even that great of a Dalek story.
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Post by tuigirl on Nov 5, 2022 17:29:15 GMT
Finishing up Paradox of the Daleks today, it’s good but I’m quite a bit fatigued with the sheer number of Dalek stories we’ve been getting recently (two on television this year alone plus the eight releases so far. I kind of wish McGann gave a bit more of a romantic 8 performance a la his earlier self because that might have fit this story a lot better but I’m also kind of sick of grumpy 8 in general. Well, 8 was definitely playful here and he has some fun with what is going on. To go with the characterization of Caerdroia- this was more serious 8 ( the one with the manners) than it was rude and vicious 8. I wonder if this would have worked with „Tigger“ 8. I think if they put Tigger 8 in this, it would just have become a total farce. And rude and vicious 8 would not have played along. It is a pretty difficult balance. I however would not mind seeing rude and vicious 8 again. A deeply problematic character, who still, deep down, cares for his friends... but maybe not that much fun to be around. Reason: I absolutely love when McGann puts on his nasty voice. He absolutely brings across the dangerousness of the Doctor as seen in „Family of Blood“. „He never raised his voice“ ... and so on, when he punishes the villains. 10 was vicious there. But just imagine if this was done voiced by McGann playing nasty 8.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2022 17:51:32 GMT
Finishing up Paradox of the Daleks today, it’s good but I’m quite a bit fatigued with the sheer number of Dalek stories we’ve been getting recently (two on television this year alone plus the eight releases so far. I kind of wish McGann gave a bit more of a romantic 8 performance a la his earlier self because that might have fit this story a lot better but I’m also kind of sick of grumpy 8 in general. Well, 8 was definitely playful here and he has some fun with what is going on. To go with the characterization of Caerdroia- this was more serious 8 ( the one with the manners) than it was rude and vicious 8. I wonder if this would have worked with „Tigger“ 8. I think if they put Tigger 8 in this, it would just have become a total farce. And rude and vicious 8 would not have played along. It is a pretty difficult balance. I however would not mind seeing rude and vicious 8 again. A deeply problematic character, who still, deep down, cares for his friends... but maybe not that much fun to be around. Reason: I absolutely love when McGann puts on his nasty voice. He absolutely brings across the dangerousness of the Doctor as seen in „Family of Blood“. „He never raised his voice“ ... and so on, when he punishes the villains. 10 was vicious there. But just imagine if this was done voiced by McGann playing nasty 8. I've kinda had enough of the darker McGann for a while, frankly. I would love more of the romantic adventurer, not Tigger if that's the same thing. The joy in his voice ALL the way back in Storm Warning just saying "Time ships crashing...again...and again.."? Hooked from the outset. It was a more measured version of the TV Movie persona. Even in Night Of The Doctor "Front crashes first, think it through.." etc. That shows Paul can be breathlessly fun in even the darker stories - you don't get much darker than dying and renouncing your name as you do - without being vicious. I actually found him insufferable in parts of Stranded. And yes, that was the intent partially but Paul was almost too good at it that he became like Tennant in End Of Time Part 2 - a poorer character, not just a flawed one. A difficult balance indeed.
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Post by Who Review on Nov 6, 2022 0:32:29 GMT
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Post by Kestrel on Nov 6, 2022 2:28:20 GMT
I've kinda had enough of the darker McGann for a while, frankly. It's really weird to me how McGann often seems "darker" in the 8DAs than the 8DTWs. You'd think it'd be the other way around.
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Post by IndieMacUser on Nov 6, 2022 9:51:58 GMT
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Post by shallacatop on Nov 6, 2022 10:06:48 GMT
I've kinda had enough of the darker McGann for a while, frankly. It's really weird to me how McGann often seems "darker" in the 8DAs than the 8DTWs. You'd think it'd be the other way around. I think it’s a case of letting real life find its way into in universe. The Time War came off the back of Doom Coalition and has ran concurrently with Ravenous, Stranded, What Lies Inside, etc. which has had that darker edge to Eight since Dark Eyes and to compensate and provide variety they've made him more cheerful in The Time War, like his early Charley & Lucie days. It doesn't quite work and is also why it’s no coincidence the Eighth Doctor’s best Time War material is outside of his actual Time War range.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2022 11:02:38 GMT
It's really weird to me how McGann often seems "darker" in the 8DAs than the 8DTWs. You'd think it'd be the other way around. I think it’s a case of letting real life find its way into in universe. The Time War came off the back of Doom Coalition and has ran concurrently with Ravenous, Stranded, What Lies Inside, etc. which has had that darker edge to Eight since Dark Eyes and to compensate and provide variety they've made him more cheerful in The Time War, like his early Charley & Lucie days. It doesn't quite work and is also why it’s no coincidence the Eighth Doctor’s best Time War material is outside of his actual Time War range. I think it also, quite audibly, took Paul a bit of time to get used to home recording during COVID more than most. For the first time I was doubting a lot of his line deliveries. The Time War is an odd duck anyway as it's clear from way back to Dark Eyes a decade back that BF thought they were closer to the War than ever and when they started making Time War stories, it made sense that Paul would be a bit breezier as we literally have a War Doctor running about, something BF couldn't have predicted back when. And as late as Night Of The Doctor he is still capable of being breathlessly heroic and flippant so I'm OK with that. I think Paul did struggle a bit to recapture his earlier portrayal from the MR when the Lucie reunion set came out. Not that he was remotely bad but it sounded very much like he had been playing, as he has, a different version of his Doctor for a long while. And we know that was partially down to Paul wanting to alter things too from various Vortex and DWM pieces.
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Post by tuigirl on Nov 6, 2022 22:35:48 GMT
Finished Dalby Spook. This was one of the best 8 th Doctor stories in quite some time, easily, for me at least, beating anything Stranded presented us with. It was clever, it made me interested so I looked up the actual story, it had some real character drama, it was fun, it was atmospheric, it had creepy moments.... what could you possibly want more? Oh, it also got some great character moments for Helen. And both Liv and Helen standing up against the Doctor.
Which also shows you that a) clever new story ideas are still possible and b) we do not need a gimmick or the constant inflationary appearance of Daleks and Cybermen to create a great story. Hallelujah.
Reading some of the comments above, I believe this would not have worked with happy cheerful 8. It needed to be grumpy 8 who was pretty much in ego mode and consumed with his d*** measuring contest ( which is pretty much what Liv and Helen call the Doctor out for and even use terminology which basically just means that) with Price to work and to get the conflict with the companions going and to really emphasize the character drama.
Right. So where does this leave us with this boxset ? We have a fun and clever but sadly not very meaningful Dalek comedy two- partner and one rather brilliant one hour story. I think I enjoyed this more and will listen more often to this than to the whole Stranded arc. Definitely one of my favorite releases this year.
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Post by mark687 on Nov 6, 2022 22:39:43 GMT
Finished Dalby Spook. This was one of the best 8 th Doctor stories in quite some time, easily, for me at least, beating anything Stranded presented us with. It was clever, it made me interested so I looked up the actual story, it had some real character drama, it was fun, it was atmospheric, it had creepy moments.... what could you possibly want more? Oh, it also got some great character moments for Helen. And both Liv and Helen standing up against the Doctor. Which also shows you that a) clever new story ideas are still possible and b) we do not need a gimmick or the constant inflationary appearance of Daleks and Cybermen to create a great story. Hallelujah. Reading some of the comments above, I believe this would not have worked with happy cheerful 8. It needed to be grumpy 8 who was pretty much in ego mode and consumed with his d*** measuring contest ( which is pretty much what Liv and Helen call the Doctor out for and even use terminology which basically just means that) with Price to work and to get the conflict with the companions going and to really emphasize the character drama. Right. So where does this leave us with this boxset ? We have a fun and clever but sadly not very meaningful Dalek comedy two- partner and one rather brilliant one hour story. I think I enjoyed this more and will listen more often to this than to the whole Stranded arc. Definitely one of my favorite releases this year. I thought this would be your kind of story Regards mark687
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Post by tuigirl on Nov 6, 2022 22:45:32 GMT
Finished Dalby Spook. This was one of the best 8 th Doctor stories in quite some time, easily, for me at least, beating anything Stranded presented us with. It was clever, it made me interested so I looked up the actual story, it had some real character drama, it was fun, it was atmospheric, it had creepy moments.... what could you possibly want more? Oh, it also got some great character moments for Helen. And both Liv and Helen standing up against the Doctor. Which also shows you that a) clever new story ideas are still possible and b) we do not need a gimmick or the constant inflationary appearance of Daleks and Cybermen to create a great story. Hallelujah. Reading some of the comments above, I believe this would not have worked with happy cheerful 8. It needed to be grumpy 8 who was pretty much in ego mode and consumed with his d*** measuring contest ( which is pretty much what Liv and Helen call the Doctor out for and even use terminology which basically just means that) with Price to work and to get the conflict with the companions going and to really emphasize the character drama. Right. So where does this leave us with this boxset ? We have a fun and clever but sadly not very meaningful Dalek comedy two- partner and one rather brilliant one hour story. I think I enjoyed this more and will listen more often to this than to the whole Stranded arc. Definitely one of my favorite releases this year. I thought this would your kind of story Regards mark687 Have I become that predictable?
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Post by shallacatop on Nov 8, 2022 21:09:36 GMT
Enjoyed The Dalby Spook a lot. Just a bloody good Doctor Who story. A nice mix of story types, a great plot, McGann is wonderful and it’s a long overdue platform for Helen. The whole TARDIS team are well served and whilst I have fatigue from them overall, it’s nice to just strip them back to basics. I’ve not heard their Torchwood releases, but it’s 2/2 for Lauren Mooney & Stewart Pringle’s Who outings, I hope to hear more from them soon.
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Post by elkawho on Nov 9, 2022 0:03:22 GMT
I loved this whole set. I really miss those fun 8th Doctor stories that aren't trying to be something bigger than they are. It reminds of those gloriously fun and entertaining EDAs. Paradox of the Daleks is the most fun we've had with Daleks since Brotherhood, and I love Liv and Helen in this one. And the Dalby Spook is just a good story. I'm so very glad we are get these stand alone ones. It's about time! (he he)
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