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Post by christmastrenzalore on Jan 6, 2016 14:07:51 GMT
Ashildr calls the Master a lover of Chaos, but surely that's the Doctor.
The Master wants to control, own, and rule the Universe, both for power, and to make things work that way he thinks they should.
The Doctor is the one who wants to embrace the Universe as it is, wandering about to random places and experiencing all the beautiful fluctuating patterns of life.
Is this statement about the Master just wrong, or has he always been like this, or is it perhaps a shift in character dynamic post-Time War? |
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Post by seeley on Jan 6, 2016 14:13:16 GMT
 "Chaos will reign, and I shall be its emperor!" |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2016 14:14:45 GMT
Ashildr calls the Master a lover of Chaos, but surely that's the Doctor.
The Master wants to control, own, and rule the Universe, both for power, and to make things work that way he thinks they should.
The Doctor is the one who wants to embrace the Universe as it is, wandering about to random places and experiencing all the beautiful fluctuating patterns of life.
Is this statement about the Master just wrong, or has he always been like this, or is it perhaps a shift in character dynamic post-Time War? As always with The Master, it depends who is writing him/her. Delgado's Master was one of the least chaotic villains in Who history whereas Missy clearly does love trolling, messing with peoples heads and jumping before she looks. She certainly embraces the chaos. Others like Ainley - especially when keeping his disguise up eve when completely alone in Time Flight - are more a shambles than agents of chaos!  One of the reasons I've loved Alex MacQueen's Master is that he tries to convince you he's insane but he's clearly measured out every detail and has long term plans that Missy or Simm wouldn't. |
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Post by christmastrenzalore on Jan 6, 2016 14:41:46 GMT
Yeah, I guess that's true. Regarding the writers. Haven't seen much of Ainley, I just thought of Delgado, Simm and MacQueen and felt that Chaos wasn't really his defining quality, although it could be quite prominent in demeanour. Had the line just been about Missy doing it to mess with the Doctor (for fun) or the Time Lords (who made her suffer) it would have rung more true.
I guess there's degrees of chaos in both him and the Doctor, as McCoy (who defining himself by being in control and masterminding his altruism with spying and time travel) embodied much more order than the Doctor usually does, although I would point out that was one of his most morally questionable incarnations. But then he's also always striving for peace, which can't exist without order either.
I guess this is the kind of dissonant complexity you run into when you try and box chaos and order into their own corners.
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Post by Sir Wearer of Hats on Jan 10, 2016 4:05:12 GMT
Of course, if the Doctor is chaos... And the Master is a lover of Choas......
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Post by J.A. Prentice on Jan 12, 2016 4:13:04 GMT
I've always much preferred the Master as being an orderly mastermind than a chaotic lunatic, but he/she seems to really vary depending on the incarnation and the writer. New Series tends to lean towards chaotic, although I think it clearly started with Ainley's Master. I'd really like the show to take the Master back to a more manipulative, intelligent Delgado-esque incarnation.
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Post by mrperson on Jan 13, 2016 19:39:42 GMT
Lover of chaos?
That's not the Master. That's the quasi-deity who likes putting dead birds on his head.
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Post by dalekbuster523finish on Jan 14, 2016 12:14:04 GMT
I've always much preferred the Master as being an orderly mastermind than a chaotic lunatic, but he/she seems to really vary depending on the incarnation and the writer. New Series tends to lean towards chaotic, although I think it clearly started with Ainley's Master. I'd really like the show to take the Master back to a more manipulative, intelligent Delgado-esque incarnation. I think Missy's more like Roger Degaldo than Anthony Ainley. There's a degree of insanity but to me she's much more manipulative, calculating and ruthless. You don't want a Master plainly copying Roger Degaldo anyway. |
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Post by constonks on Jan 25, 2016 4:04:51 GMT
I'm not sure if this has been made explicit (it feels... familiar) but the Master wants to be the ordered ruler of a chaotic universe and has no idea why that makes no sense. The character's madness lies in the contradiction.
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