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Post by elkawho on Sept 5, 2022 16:17:21 GMT
Ok, so let's talk about why.
Now this is mostly regarding her initial range of individual stories. I find that they have the largest swings of quality in all aspects of production including the writing, recording quality, music design and acting in all of BF's output. I know a lot of that is due to the fact that the early stories were where BF was learning how to do what they do. No individual booths, lower quality tech for recording, and they were really just learning how to write and produce at a high level. I'm doing another listen through of all the Benny stories and what surprised me is that this lack of consistency is present even later than it should be. Now I know Gary Russell was pushing the boundaries and he was either brilliant or terrible with all of it, but it seems like these swings in quality weren't quite as bad in the Main Range. (Yes, I know there were some stinkers there in the early years, but not as many and way more brilliance.) There are some absolutely amazing Benny stories, Just War and Oh No it Isn't!, spring to mind from the first year alone, but then the horrible Mirror Effect comes out in 2003 and I can only ask why?
What do you all think?
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Post by mark687 on Sept 5, 2022 18:23:38 GMT
Its still BFs most "Unbound" Range to coin a phase but back when it started it took the form of what most unfranchised Sci-Fi was a somewhat heady blend of Humour, Adult Themes and Softcore in the 90s and early 2000s. Obviously you can't do that [too often ] in Doctor Who. Regards mark687
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Post by newt5996 on Sept 5, 2022 20:08:35 GMT
So I adore the range in all of its incarnations but the baffling decision to intertwine plot with a series of books and audios has made the first four or so series of audios genuinely uneven, even when plot details weren't in the books BUT intertwining two mediums is genuinely difficult to do satisfactorily. It's still a range I adore.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2022 21:06:25 GMT
So I adore the range in all of its incarnations but the baffling decision to intertwine plot with a series of books and audios has made the first four or so series of audios genuinely uneven, even when plot details weren't in the books BUT intertwining two mediums is genuinely difficult to do satisfactorily. It probably seemed like a good idea at the time. Although I did enjoy the two formats Bernice Summerfield arc back then. The whole idea stands or falls on the two formats still being available twenty years on though, so when the books went out of print it must have been a bit confusing for the people who could only access the audios. I don't have the paperback books anymore but I still enjoy those audios. They are still some of the best Bernice Summerfield stories for me.
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Post by newt5996 on Sept 9, 2022 21:09:49 GMT
So I adore the range in all of its incarnations but the baffling decision to intertwine plot with a series of books and audios has made the first four or so series of audios genuinely uneven, even when plot details weren't in the books BUT intertwining two mediums is genuinely difficult to do satisfactorily. It probably seemed like a good idea at the time. Although I did enjoy the two formats Bernice Summerfield arc back then. The whole idea stands or falls on the two formats still being available twenty years on though, so when the books went out of print it must have been a bit confusing for the people who could only access the audios. I don't have the paperback books anymore but I still enjoy those audios. They are still some of the best Bernice Summerfield stories for me. I think it’s a genuinely great arc mostly especially now that the essential books now have audiobooks, but it’s still kind of interesting to see the decisions that made the range really tough to get into. Add to that the fact it wasn’t available on download for so long adds to that.
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Post by Ela on Sept 11, 2022 3:46:08 GMT
It's true that the quality of the early Big Finish Benny stories is variable. Heck, the earlier Virgin New Adventure books featuring Benny, which preceded the BF releases, were also pretty variable in quality.
But I love Benny so I love them all, in spite of the flaws.
It helps to understand that some of the early audios were adapted from the Virgin New Adventures books. And some were adapted from earlier Seventh Doctor New Adventure books, in which Benny was first introduced as a companion to the Doctor, but they had to be changed to exclude regular Doctor Who characters to which Big Finish had not yet obtained the rights.
I have to say, as someone who read the books first, it was interesting to see how some of the books were adapted to audio.
I didn't have most of the BF books when I first listened to the audio stories, so I googled the synopses of the stories I wasn't familiar with on line to fill in the continuity. To this day I haven't listen to and read the stories in strict chronological order, though I hope to one of these days.
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Post by theillusiveman on Sept 11, 2022 11:08:29 GMT
I wonder if they should do a soft reboot of the range?
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Post by grinch on Sept 11, 2022 11:19:23 GMT
I wonder if they should do a soft reboot of the range? I suppose that’s we would call her adventures with the Warner Doctor. Admittedly I haven’t listened to the last set released with the pair but there hasn’t been much reference to her ongoing range in the ones I have listened to. It’s certainly more accessible than her increasingly impenetrable ongoing range as well.
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Post by theillusiveman on Sept 11, 2022 11:49:46 GMT
I wonder if they should do a soft reboot of the range? I suppose that’s we would call her adventures with the Warner Doctor. Admittedly I haven’t listened to the last set released with the pair but there hasn’t been much reference to her ongoing range in the ones I have listened to. It’s certainly more accessible than her increasingly impenetrable ongoing range as well. l Since David Warner’s passing I wonder if she will be paired up with another doctor ? 8th Doctor would be nice
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Post by Ela on Sept 11, 2022 14:29:26 GMT
I believe the releases starting with Epoch were meant to be a soft reboot. At least, folks at BF kept saying it was a good starting point and that you didn't need the preceding series 1-11 to enjoy those releases.
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Post by elkawho on Sept 11, 2022 23:51:29 GMT
I want to clarify that I don't dislike the early Benny range for the most part. I mean, there are individual stories that I don't like but I think the range is remarkable, for it's value as examples of early BF alone. There is some wonderful stuff in it.
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Post by Kestrel on Sept 12, 2022 9:36:57 GMT
You're not wrong. The success and enduring appeal of Bernice Summerfield is, I think, more the result of Lisa Bowerman's performance. Even the worst Bennynstories I've listened to (and boy are there some clunkers) are still pretty easy to get through because Bowerman always gives 100%, and perfectly embodies Benny's voice. I can't imagine anyone else doing even half so well: she is Benny. Since David Warner’s passing I wonder if she will be paired up with another doctor ? 8th Doctor would be nice I feel like it's still too soon to even think about talking about where NABS might go next. I'm still holding out hope that they may have another story or two recorded well in advance, so that the last set isn't really the last set, but that's pretty unlikely, I think. Oof. How I would do things, if it were up to me, would be to have the Warner-Doctor die in-universe (off-screen, n-between sets). And then just a full boxset of Benny coming to terms with that. The grief. The trauma. The absence. Kind of like how the first Warner-Doctor NABS set (I think it was the first one, at least) dealt a great deal with the Doctor's own grief and trauma for having failed his universe. {Spoiler}And then I'd end the range. I dunno. Maybe that's a bit much. They worked so perfectly well together, I cannot imagine the NABS range without Warner and Bowerman, side-by-side.
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lidar2
Castellan
You know, now that you mention it, I actually do rather like Attack of the Cybermen ...
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Post by lidar2 on Sept 12, 2022 10:35:08 GMT
I wonder if they should do a soft reboot of the range? As I understand it from things BF have said, Benny sales were in gradual decline so Epoch was a soft reboot. That didn't work quite as well as hoped in terms of sales figures so they did a harder reboot with NABS which did work. But if the position is that Benny cannot - when measured by sales figures - carry a series alone without a Doctor, then clearly some sort of rethink will be required if Benny is to continue. Keep in mind also the idea that BF is its own biggest competitor - even if terms of BF's other releases Benny is competing in a more crowded field than pre-NABS
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Post by theillusiveman on Sept 12, 2022 13:12:58 GMT
You're not wrong. The success and enduring appeal of Bernice Summerfield is, I think, more the result of Lisa Bowerman's performance. Even the worst Bennynstories I've listened to (and boy are there some clunkers) are still pretty easy to get through because Bowerman always gives 100%, and perfectly embodies Benny's voice. I can't imagine anyone else doing even half so well: she is Benny. Since David Warner’s passing I wonder if she will be paired up with another doctor ? 8th Doctor would be nice I feel like it's still too soon to even think about talking about where NABS might go next. I'm still holding out hope that they may have another story or two recorded well in advance, so that the last set isn't really the last set, but that's pretty unlikely, I think. Oof. How I would do things, if it were up to me, would be to have the Warner-Doctor die in-universe (off-screen, n-between sets). And then just a full boxset of Benny coming to terms with that. The grief. The trauma. The absence. Kind of like how the first Warner-Doctor NABS set (I think it was the first one, at least) dealt a great deal with the Doctor's own grief and trauma for having failed his universe. {Spoiler}And then I'd end the range. I dunno. Maybe that's a bit much. They worked so perfectly well together, I cannot imagine the NABS range without Warner and Bowerman, side-by-side. Honestly perhaps River Song could join the range for a bit or have Benny appear in The Diary of River Song Series (given The Legacy of Time has set up a backstory between the two)
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Post by grinch on Sept 12, 2022 20:06:22 GMT
Depending on whether Lisa Bowerman wishes to carry on in the role or not, it honestly might just be easier to have standalone stories set in Bernice’s past.
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Post by Star Platinum on Sept 12, 2022 20:18:32 GMT
I'm almost hoping that the Warner Doctor is written out at the end of the upcoming boxset, The production time between Vol 6 and 7 was quite large, for obvious reasons, and I hope they've used it to separate the characters.
I'd hate for Big Finish to reopen those wounds by removing the character after the fact, I'd rather they make it as easy on Lisa Bowerman as possible.
I look forward to the direction Benny goes in the future, however long it may take.
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