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Post by Kestrel on May 30, 2023 1:48:45 GMT
It’s not fatigue of BF - I enjoyed the latest 5th Doctor set, and loved the latest Benny series. But there’s something not sitting right with me about this run. I’ll start on Purity Unleashed and see where I lay compared to the opinions above. Keep in mind when I say this that I've only listened to somewhere between half and two-thirds of the MR so far, but my general impression is that Big Finish really hasn't had a clear idea of what to do with the 6th Doctor post-Evelyn. I think this is evident even in the MR, but there at least they were a bit more experimental and tried new things with him, resulting in some absolutely phenomenal stories ( A Thousand Tiny Wings, anyone?) alongside some exceptionally pointless, disposable chaff. But with the 6DAs I don't think they really have much vision beyond using the range to vaguely sort of gesture (in sometimes extremely hamhanded/problematic ways) at progressive themes. Did I ever even post my write-up on Water Worlds yet? I'm still pretty upset about that. Anyway, while laudable, that's not really sufficient to drive the range. Every consideration, in my view, should be oriented around character -- character arcs, character dynamics/chemistry, areas of friction and complement, etc. And I don't really get the sense that this is happening here, or with any of the new SDA ranges, really. Though I do think it's a little more apparent with the 6DAs simply because Colin Baker is such a prodigious talent and we have such a stellar library of incredibly compelling and imaginative 6th Doctor stories to compare, even if only unconsciously, each new 6DA story to.
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Post by cjr on May 30, 2023 2:49:14 GMT
I think, (and need to go back and listen,) that that’s a great point. Although each adventure with Mel and Peri was also very good, the Evelyn run was pretty amazing. The older Peri arc hasn’t been paid off (at least not to my mind). Flip is out for real-world important reasons (get well Lisa Greenwood!!). And, I think some of the lustre came off for old-Sixie from around MR200 onwards.
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Post by relativetime on May 30, 2023 3:11:18 GMT
It’s not fatigue of BF - I enjoyed the latest 5th Doctor set, and loved the latest Benny series. But there’s something not sitting right with me about this run. I’ll start on Purity Unleashed and see where I lay compared to the opinions above. Keep in mind when I say this that I've only listened to somewhere between half and two-thirds of the MR so far, but my general impression is that Big Finish really hasn't had a clear idea of what to do with the 6th Doctor post-Evelyn. I think this is evident even in the MR, but there at least they were a bit more experimental and tried new things with him, resulting in some absolutely phenomenal stories ( A Thousand Tiny Wings, anyone?) alongside some exceptionally pointless, disposable chaff. But with the 6DAs I don't think they really have much vision beyond using the range to vaguely sort of gesture (in sometimes extremely hamhanded/problematic ways) at progressive themes. Did I ever even post my write-up on Water Worlds yet? I'm still pretty upset about that. Anyway, while laudable, that's not really sufficient to drive the range. Every consideration, in my view, should be oriented around character -- character arcs, character dynamics/chemistry, areas of friction and complement, etc. And I don't really get the sense that this is happening here, or with any of the new SDA ranges, really. Though I do think it's a little more apparent with the 6DAs simply because Colin Baker is such a prodigious talent and we have such a stellar library of incredibly compelling and imaginative 6th Doctor stories to compare, even if only unconsciously, each new 6DA story to. This is generally the exact opposite opinion I've had of the Sixth Doctor releases. Generally, compared to Five and especially Seven, I've always felt as though Big Finish had a good idea of what to do with the Sixth Doctor - or maybe it's just that the new things and experimental ideas they tried with him just always seemed to work. Pairing Six with Charlie resulted in one of the best runs of the entire main range in my opinion until they decided to bring in Flip and Constance, which IS the best run of the entire main range. Sure, there wasn't a grand overarching storyline like there was for the Fifth and Sixth Doctors for a while, but his runs have always had the most consistent character work out of any of the others and for the longest time Big Finish leaned into that. I can't really speak for or against the latest run I'll admit. I've been pretty fatigued when it comes to audio dramas these past few months, so all I've really listened to is the the first set, which I'll certainly admit was far, far weaker than the Flip and Constance releases we were getting before. But I do agree that the new _DA ranges besides Eight have been lacking something lately. Personally, I think the switch to two-parters was not a good move for Six, similar to how I felt about Four. The stories from the first set needed time to breath, to allow those character dynamics and chemistry to develop, and now it's being pushed into a format that I feel jars with what's been proven to work for this Doctor.
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Post by Kestrel on May 30, 2023 5:46:54 GMT
I definitely disagree about the 6/Charlie run being anything close to good (it definitely had a lot of potential to be good, though) but I do agree that Flip/Constance was great.
But when I talk about not really knowing what to do with the character, I'm thinking more of what kinds of companions would best complement the 6th Doctor's personality and how that relationship would inform their respective character arcs. Evelyn was brought in initially as an older, mature voice to temper the 6th Doctor's more impetuous and harsh aspects -- to soften him from the rather abrasive personality he was in the TV show to the much more well-rounded Doctor we now know him as. This was, I think, a very deliberate corrective measure to "rehabilitate" the Doctor who was, at the time, quite reviled by the fandom at large.
And with this they also wove together an extremely compelling character arc for Evelyn, as she rediscovers her sense of childlike wonder and almost forms a crush on the Doctor, before that's (brutally) stripped away forcing her to contend with a man who, yes, is larger than life -- mythic in many ways -- but also deeply flawed, fallible, and human -- a shifting her perception of the 6th Doctor from a hero to a dear friend.
Character arcs! They're really great!
And it really helps that the chemistry between these two characters was FIRE.
And what makes Constance Clarke work so well (and, earlier, Klein) is that they also had really great chemistry with the 6th Doctor. It almost didn't matter where they were or what they were talking about, because just putting this Doctor and these companions in a room and letting them talk was fun, in and and of itself.
And that's definitely not something we're getting with Peri or Mel. Hebe has some nice friction with Colin, but it's a bit undercut by how poorly she's used in her stories so far.
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Post by eightelements on May 30, 2023 6:00:03 GMT
I do agree that the new _DA ranges besides Eight have been lacking something lately. Personally, I think the switch to two-parters was not a good move for Six, similar to how I felt about Four. The stories from the first set needed time to breath, to allow those character dynamics and chemistry to develop, and now it's being pushed into a format that I feel jars with what's been proven to work for this Doctor. All the two x two-part main range releases were with well-established companions, right? Which means they could afford to ditch character development to fit the runtime. It's something that concerns me about the upcoming 8DA Audacity set. They're opening with the hour-long story?
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Post by Kestrel on May 30, 2023 16:21:24 GMT
It's something that concerns me about the upcoming 8DA Audacity set. They're opening with the hour-long story? I'm not gonna say you're wrong to be concerned or anxious, but I will say that an hour's length is plenty of time to introduce a new companion -- as ever, it's all in how the story is written (and acted). One of the big reasons, I think, the revival worked as well as it did is because of how RTD wrote Rose From, well, Rose's perspective. In something like 46 minutes we learn an awful lot about who Rose is and what her life is like, with the Doctor being an almost ancillary character -- a mystery we only get a few tiny tidbits of (indirect) information about. We get to know Jackie and Mickey better, in that first episode. It takes several episodes before we know Eccleston's Doctor even half so well as we knew Rose n that first story. Which is really a good roadmap for how best to introduce a companion. I think. We already know the Doctors, whichever incarnation they are, so these stories really aren't a great place for them to be the focus. I think Big Finish also did this really well in The Red Lady, which is mostly just Helen's story. One where, arguably, sadly, she probably gets a more active and prominent role than in most of her subsequent stories.
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Post by BHTvsTFC on May 30, 2023 16:33:41 GMT
Just to be contrary I think this series, a bit like the Flip adventures, might just get the last laugh. I really enjoyed this set. The first story isn't for everyone, and I think I will need to relisten before I give my final judgement but I loved Purification and Time-Burst. Patricia McBride makes for an interesting protagonist and I wonder if her eventual finale will involve the Cybermen; also known for their drive to improve the lot of us all.
The performances were first rate throughout and I really enjoyed the human side to the stories. For the first time since the last Flip and Constance trilogy I am looking forward to the next Sixth Doctor release!
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Post by masterdoctor on May 30, 2023 18:04:40 GMT
I’m also going to be contrarian here and say that despite some rocky moments, this series is a lot more interesting and enjoyable than most other ongoing Doctor specific ranges, apart from 8 and War. I have a lot more time for heavy-handedness then others seem to, but after so many years of interacting with film bros who completely miss the actual point of movies like Fight Club, I think subtly is a little overrated. Broadway is the standout of the set and perhaps the run, but Purification and Time-Burst are pretty solid as well, though did blend together a little imo. But I very much look forward to August’s set and potentially more.
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Post by ollychops on May 30, 2023 18:09:14 GMT
I do agree that the new _DA ranges besides Eight have been lacking something lately. Personally, I think the switch to two-parters was not a good move for Six, similar to how I felt about Four. The stories from the first set needed time to breath, to allow those character dynamics and chemistry to develop, and now it's being pushed into a format that I feel jars with what's been proven to work for this Doctor. All the two x two-part main range releases were with well-established companions, right? Which means they could afford to ditch character development to fit the runtime. It's something that concerns me about the upcoming 8DA Audacity set. They're opening with the hour-long story? I'm not as worried about that since the 8DAs tend to be 1x60 so they haven't got to spend time building to and then resolving a cliffhanger like the 2-parters.
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Post by relativetime on May 30, 2023 19:46:17 GMT
I definitely disagree about the 6/Charlie run being anything close to good (it definitely had a lot of potential to be good, though) but I do agree that Flip/Constance was great. But when I talk about not really knowing what to do with the character, I'm thinking more of what kinds of companions would best complement the 6th Doctor's personality and how that relationship would inform their respective character arcs. Evelyn was brought in initially as an older, mature voice to temper the 6th Doctor's more impetuous and harsh aspects -- to soften him from the rather abrasive personality he was in the TV show to the much more well-rounded Doctor we now know him as. This was, I think, a very deliberate corrective measure to "rehabilitate" the Doctor who was, at the time, quite reviled by the fandom at large. And with this they also wove together an extremely compelling character arc for Evelyn, as she rediscovers her sense of childlike wonder and almost forms a crush on the Doctor, before that's (brutally) stripped away forcing her to contend with a man who, yes, is larger than life -- mythic in many ways -- but also deeply flawed, fallible, and human -- a shifting her perception of the 6th Doctor from a hero to a dear friend. Character arcs! They're really great! And it really helps that the chemistry between these two characters was FIRE. And what makes Constance Clarke work so well (and, earlier, Klein) is that they also had really great chemistry with the 6th Doctor. It almost didn't matter where they were or what they were talking about, because just putting this Doctor and these companions in a room and letting them talk was fun, in and and of itself. And that's definitely not something we're getting with Peri or Mel. Hebe has some nice friction with Colin, but it's a bit undercut by how poorly she's used in her stories so far. I agree the character arc for Six and Evelyn was great and I see your point coming from that perspective, though I don't think that was necessarily absent from the Sixth Doctor releases afterward, even if they have tended to be a little more story focused. I'd say the character arcs were largely what made the Flip and Constance releases so compelling in fact. But, okay, I'll give you that what they've done with Peri is a bit of a blemish on the record. They were off to a really strong start with the older Peri arc (two of my favorite Sixth Doctor stories back to back). Exploring Six and Peri's relationship in a post-Trial, post-Evelyn time period is a really interesting angle to explore. They just... stopped. First it was basically abandoning the storyline after 2014 and then we finally get a followup boxset years later that I've seen get mixed reception. It seems like they had a more interesting idea with Constance and Flip and that's the direction they decided to go instead. Similarly, I've always really loved The Reaping for all this amazing family drama and tragedy it gives Peri, but it NEVER gets brought up. There's some releases that might hint at it if you squint or make headcanons about it, but overall I've never felt as though they've given this story the proper followup it deserves. So, yeah, I absolutely see the lack of direction when it comes to Peri. Absolutely agree with your points about the chemistry between Six, Constance and Flip - and I'd argue that that's what made the Six and Charlie stories so great too - but I disagree that that's missing from the releases with Peri and Mel because it's there in spades especially in the Lost Stories. Honestly, Six has had fantastic chemistry with just about every companion he works with on audio, which has always been the biggest draw for his stories for me. Six never really traveled with Klein though, but I loved the chemistry between her and Seven. I just never really cared for what they did with the character after The Architects of History unfortunately - certainly a case of Big Finish not knowing where to go with the character.
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Post by noneofyourbusiness on May 31, 2023 19:31:42 GMT
I won't be surprised if the next one is called <i>Purity Unraveled</i>.
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Post by shallacatop on Jun 1, 2023 12:45:20 GMT
Another odd instalment in this run of stories.
I really enjoyed Broadway Belongs to Me! It felt like a breath of fresh air compared to the preceding six stories, mostly standalone, reveled in its absurdity and gave a great platform for Mel that's been missing since Hebe arrived.
And then we get to Purification & Time-Burst, which just gets stuck in the exact same trappings that made the last set such a frustrating listen, although I did enjoy the Sheffield setting in Time-Burst, it was much better utilised than the modern day stories of this run, and is a seldom touched piece of history.There's nothing to Patricia except her being adamant that her view is correct. She's never challenged on it, its never developed in any meaningful way. The Doctor & Mel just have a runaround, bump into her, we go through the motions, nothing really changes and then she's off again to keep us waiting for the next set. It doesn't help that both stories are identical to each other, which was the same issue I had with the preceding two sets, so any repetition is all the more obvious.
Its biggest crime is that I didn't miss Hebe for one second, which isn't very good given the throughline of the set is getting her back and the overall arc revolves around her. The cliffhanger fell flat for me, as I'm not invested enough in Hebe, or feel like I know her well enough, to really care that she's no recollection. Sticking Ruth Madeley's name on the cover and using her image feels a touch misleading too.
Curious where we go next and what can be done to try and salvage the story.
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Post by Who Review on Jun 2, 2023 12:35:38 GMT
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Post by IndieMacUser on Jun 4, 2023 9:33:51 GMT
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Post by thegreendeath on Jul 22, 2023 21:13:08 GMT
Broadway Belongs to Me was just fantastic. Very funny, well acted, catchy and problematic songs and a great central conceit to the main villains of the piece (their reveal in episode 2 is one of my all time favorite villain reveals). Pure 5/5 for me.
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Post by masterdoctor on Sept 26, 2023 17:24:19 GMT
I found this set to be mixed, with one great story, one dull, and one solid.
Broadway Belongs to Me! by Matthew Sweet:
A solid tale with a fantastic idea! The overall story drags a little in the middle, but I really enjoyed the world conjured up by Sweet, and the ultimate villains were an actual surprise as I expected Patricia to be behind everything. I thought the songs were fun, though I wish they were a little more incorporated into the wider narrative.
Purification by Chris Chapman:
I really really liked this one, probably one of the strongest of the run. Well-paced with its time-jumping narrative, it built up Patricia/Purity in a great way, and the guest cast, especially Leah Brotherhead were excellent.
Time-Burst by Ian Potter:
Unfortunately I found this one to be one of my least favourites of the run, as I found it ultimately quite bland apart from the final minutes leading into the next set. Some of the ideas were interesting, such as the anachronistic technology, but outside of that, the dialogue just didn’t grab me and the sound design felt quite sparse, leaving an undeveloped setting. However, the ending is quite fun and I’m very excited for Hebe’s return.
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Post by ollychops on Sept 27, 2023 13:36:00 GMT
I do agree that the new _DA ranges besides Eight have been lacking something lately. Personally, I think the switch to two-parters was not a good move for Six, similar to how I felt about Four. The stories from the first set needed time to breath, to allow those character dynamics and chemistry to develop, and now it's being pushed into a format that I feel jars with what's been proven to work for this Doctor. All the two x two-part main range releases were with well-established companions, right? Which means they could afford to ditch character development to fit the runtime. It's something that concerns me about the upcoming 8DA Audacity set. They're opening with the hour-long story?I'm actually not too concerned about this as even though they're the same length, the one x one hour format of Eight's stories work better than the two x two-part because they haven't gotten to worry about a cliffhanger half way through and then resolving said cliffhanger. The problem with the two-part format is they've got to: 1) Establish the setting 2) Establish the guest characters 3) Create cliffhanger 4) Resolve cliffhanger 5) Resolve overall plot There's not nearly enough time to do it satisfactorily as well as developing the main characters. With four-parters, there's more breathing room to do all of this and develop the characters. (Also I know your post is a few months old - sorry - just wanted to add my thoughts.)
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