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Post by martinw8686 on Jan 10, 2023 17:09:54 GMT
I'm 2/3s into Dune and loving it, I'm craving more dark/bleak Sci Fi reading, any suggestions? I think I'll give the Dune sequels a miss as I don't want to spoil the original.
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Post by grinch on Jan 10, 2023 17:12:14 GMT
I Have No Mouth and I Must Scream by Harlan Ellison is pretty bleak. And it’s a short story as well so it wouldn’t take much time to read.
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Post by sidestep on Jan 10, 2023 18:34:20 GMT
I'm 2/3s into Dune and loving it, I'm craving more dark/bleak Sci Fi reading, any suggestions? I think I'll give the Dune sequels a miss as I don't want to spoil the original. The Red Rising series by Pierce Brown. Please only read the synopsis of the first book, Red Rising, to avoid spoilers. Because the synopsis of the next books in the series, spoil the first book. This series also has an awesome board game with fantastic art. Dune also has several board games, but my family’s favorite is Dune: Imperium by Dire Wolf. It’s worker placement.
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shutupbanks
Castellan
There’s a horror movie called Alien? That’s really offensive. No wonder everyone keeps invading you.
Likes: 5,669
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Post by shutupbanks on Jan 10, 2023 22:36:53 GMT
Any SF by Iain M. Banks has its dark moments. A lot of Stephen Baxter’s work is quite bleak. George R. R. Martin’s short stories are quite grim Kristine Kathryn Rusch’s novels can be quite heartbreaking, especially those that aren’t part of a series.
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Post by sidestep on Jan 11, 2023 3:13:54 GMT
George R. R. Martin’s short stories are quite grim Sandkings.
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shutupbanks
Castellan
There’s a horror movie called Alien? That’s really offensive. No wonder everyone keeps invading you.
Likes: 5,669
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Post by shutupbanks on Jan 11, 2023 4:17:13 GMT
George R. R. Martin’s short stories are quite grim Sandkings. Oh, yes.
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Post by Digi on Jan 11, 2023 4:52:17 GMT
1984, The Road, and Flowers for Algernon spring to mind too. Which may not entirely be what you mean by "sci fi" here, martinw8686, but they fit the genre...
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Post by tuigirl on Jan 11, 2023 7:22:04 GMT
Warhammer 40k..... It is pretty much as dark as it gets. They now even have a "Crime" and "Horror" range. As I said, the books by Abnett are awesome. If you start, start with Eisenhorn Xenos and work your way through the sequels. They are now also available as cheaper ebook bundles. And there is of course the amazing "Night Lords" trilogy, which follows a warband of monstrous villains and one that impressed me so much I have spend a lot of time and money collecting and painting a Night Lord army. The story of the once noble Talos Valcoran, who still has a tiny shred of honour, and his psychotic squad, told through the eyes of their enslaved human servants is a fantastic feat of character-development and world building. I love it. Oh, you were talking about "real" books, were you..... sorry....
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Post by The Brigadier on Jan 11, 2023 11:48:09 GMT
Warhammer 40k..... It is pretty much as dark as it gets. They now even have a "Crime" and "Horror" range. As I said, the books by Abnett are awesome. If you start, start with Eisenhorn Xenos and work your way through the sequels. They are now also available as cheaper ebook bundles. And there is of course the amazing "Night Lords" trilogy, which follows a warband of monstrous villains and one that impressed me so much I have spend a lot of time and money collecting and painting a Night Lord army. The story of the once noble Talos Valcoran, who still has a tiny shred of honour, and his psychotic squad, told through the eyes of their enslaved human servants is a fantastic feat of character-development and world building. I love it. Oh, you were talking about "real" books, were you..... sorry.... I've often thought about dipping into Warhammer 40k but the number of books listed on the Black Library makes knowing where best to start from a bit of challenge, so thank you for the recommendation of Xenos. Have you read any of the Horus Herecy range? And if so is it worth dipping into that too?
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Post by martinw8686 on Jan 11, 2023 14:14:41 GMT
1984, The Road, and Flowers for Algernon spring to mind too. Which may not entirely be what you mean by "sci fi" here, martinw8686, but they fit the genre... I've read 1984 and The Road, I'll look up Flowers for Algernon though. The Road was very good, I read it very quickly, recently watched the film which was also very good, utterly heartbreaking, had me in tears at the end. I read 1984 when I was a teenager but funnily enough never read Animal Farm, I missed a lot of secondary school due to mental health struggles, I've also got Lord of the Flies on my to read list, along with a few others I missed out on.
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Post by tuigirl on Jan 11, 2023 17:01:32 GMT
Warhammer 40k..... It is pretty much as dark as it gets. They now even have a "Crime" and "Horror" range. As I said, the books by Abnett are awesome. If you start, start with Eisenhorn Xenos and work your way through the sequels. They are now also available as cheaper ebook bundles. And there is of course the amazing "Night Lords" trilogy, which follows a warband of monstrous villains and one that impressed me so much I have spend a lot of time and money collecting and painting a Night Lord army. The story of the once noble Talos Valcoran, who still has a tiny shred of honour, and his psychotic squad, told through the eyes of their enslaved human servants is a fantastic feat of character-development and world building. I love it. Oh, you were talking about "real" books, were you..... sorry.... I've often thought about dipping into Warhammer 40k but the number of books listed on the Black Library makes knowing where best to start from a bit of challenge, so thank you for the recommendation of Xenos. Have you read any of the Horus Herecy range? And if so is it worth dipping into that too? Where do I even begin..... Ask Sidestep about my utter nerdgasm in our private conversations.... I was a total Warhammer nerd before I saw my first Doctor Who episode, and if you think me running around in my Sixie coat is a bit strong, do not ask me about why Jervis Johnson (one of the creators of the Warhammer 40k universe) still ows me a beer....
Again sorry to Sidestep for wall of text and nerd monologues all over....
Right-
Well, for a start with Warhammer, read the Inqusition series by Abnett- there are now 9 books, with a 10th on the horizon. That should give you a decent background to all the lore. Otherwise, other things will be pretty opaque and hard to get into without googling the fan wikis. Abnett is a great gateway drug. (Beware, Warhammer is a DEEP rabbit hole)
If you like military Sci-Fi, Abnett's Gaunts Ghosts novels are amazing. It does not get much better than that, but beware, they are very dark and they are very adult. Adult themes, violence, death, demonic possession, child abuse, rape.....
But OMG. Abnett is Master of character creation, clever plot development and world building. It sucks you in.
Also recommended- "the Emperors Gift" by Demski-Bowden, if you want to start with some supersoldier Space Marine novels- that is a very good one featuring the Grey Knights (Demon Hunters) and the Space Wolves (Space Vikings) and has some Eastereggs from the Abnett novels in there!
Also, as said above, I LOVE all the Night Lords stuff written by Dembski-Bowden. Even the short audio dramas are great (40k and Heresy). I love Sevatar, he is a great villain with a last remnant of nobility.
If you want some audio drama- there are quite a few that were produced by Big Finish and even have BF regulars in them, like Lisa Bowerman.
Of the latest audio dramas- Dredge Runners is AMAZING. Very dark, but amazing.
Or the horror audio Watcher in the Rain. Very creepy.
Horus Heresy- well, there are good books and there are..... VERY bad ones. You cannot go wrong with the books by Abnett and Dembski-Bowden. Fan favorites and the best writers IMHO.
I personally like the 40k books better, but that my just be preference. You will have to read through the first 5 (!!) of the series, to actually get to the baseline of the plot. That is the start.
Many of the novels are just plain filler.
My absolute favorites of the Horus Heresy series: - Flight of the Eisenstein (James Swallow)
- A Thousand Sons (Graham McNeill)
- Prospero Burns (Abnett)
- The first Heretic (Dembski- Bowden)
- Betrayer (Dembski-Bowden)
- Battle of Calth (Abnett)
- Legion (Abnett)
Is that enough to get you started?
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Post by Digi on Jan 11, 2023 20:13:37 GMT
1984, The Road, and Flowers for Algernon spring to mind too. Which may not entirely be what you mean by "sci fi" here, martinw8686 , but they fit the genre... I've read 1984 and The Road, I'll look up Flowers for Algernon though. The Road was very good, I read it very quickly, recently watched the film which was also very good, utterly heartbreaking, had me in tears at the end.I read 1984 when I was a teenager but funnily enough never read Animal Farm, I missed a lot of secondary school due to mental health struggles, I've also got Lord of the Flies on my to read list, along with a few others I missed out on. Indeed! I'd seen the movie a number of years before I read the book, but both were just outstanding.
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Post by martinw8686 on Jan 11, 2023 21:08:10 GMT
I've read 1984 and The Road, I'll look up Flowers for Algernon though. The Road was very good, I read it very quickly, recently watched the film which was also very good, utterly heartbreaking, had me in tears at the end.I read 1984 when I was a teenager but funnily enough never read Animal Farm, I missed a lot of secondary school due to mental health struggles, I've also got Lord of the Flies on my to read list, along with a few others I missed out on. Indeed! I'd seen the movie a number of years before I read the book, but both were just outstanding. It's a very dark tale, the scenes when the father considers shooting his son because the best he can do at that moment is make sure the boy won't suffer are so powerful and conflicting. Everything the father does is about love for his son, even killing him, Viggo Mortenson should have won an Oscar for his performance.
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Post by sidestep on Jan 11, 2023 22:35:20 GMT
I've often thought about dipping into Warhammer 40k but the number of books listed on the Black Library makes knowing where best to start from a bit of challenge, so thank you for the recommendation of Xenos. Have you read any of the Horus Herecy range? And if so is it worth dipping into that too?
If you want some audio drama- there are quite a few that were produced by Big Finish and even have BF regulars in them, like Lisa Bowerman.
My absolute favorites of the Horus Heresy series: - Flight of the Eisenstein (James Swallow)
- A Thousand Sons (Graham McNeill)
- Prospero Burns (Abnett)
- The first Heretic (Dembski- Bowden)
- Betrayer (Dembski-Bowden)
- Battle of Calth (Abnett)
- Legion (Abnett)
Is that enough to get you started? Beth Chalmers also narrates some of them. (I plan to buy them after I’ve made a dent in my BF backlog. I like her work, especially Raine & Veklin). I’ve only read 1 book in the Horus Heresy series, (we randomly got it from a used bookstore) The Flight of the Eisenstein: The Horus Heresy book 4 (James Swallow) and it’s really good. The plot was not difficult to comprehend, the imagery & world building vivid, & the characters,( especially the lead character) were compelling, I thought. tuigirl does very helpful & enthusiastic wall of text. I don’t mind. 😁⭐️ I hope your internet troubles have been resolved tuigirl. I read in another thread it takes some effort to even just post in this forum. 👍🏻
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Post by tuigirl on Jan 11, 2023 22:58:17 GMT
If you want some audio drama- there are quite a few that were produced by Big Finish and even have BF regulars in them, like Lisa Bowerman.
My absolute favorites of the Horus Heresy series: - Flight of the Eisenstein (James Swallow)
- A Thousand Sons (Graham McNeill)
- Prospero Burns (Abnett)
- The first Heretic (Dembski- Bowden)
- Betrayer (Dembski-Bowden)
- Battle of Calth (Abnett)
- Legion (Abnett)
Is that enough to get you started? Beth Chalmers also narrates some of them. (I plan to buy them after I’ve made a dent in my BF backlog. I like her work, especially Raine & Veklin). I’ve only read 1 book in the Horus Heresy series, (we randomly got it from a used bookstore) The Flight of the Eisenstein: The Horus Heresy book 4 (James Swallow) and it’s really good. The plot was not difficult to comprehend, the imagery & world building vivid, & the characters,( especially the lead character) were compelling, I thought. tuigirl does very helpful & enthusiastic wall of text. I don’t mind. 😁⭐️ I hope your internet troubles have been resolved tuigirl. I read in another thread it takes some effort to even just post in this forum. 👍🏻 Haha, glad to hear. Nah, sadly, still no luck. Still waiting from the new router from Telekom. So posting here takes not only effort, but also money, because I need to buy extra data to use my mobile as a hotspot. But if I do not do this, I would feel pretty socially isolated since most of my friends sadly are online. Like you guys.
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shutupbanks
Castellan
There’s a horror movie called Alien? That’s really offensive. No wonder everyone keeps invading you.
Likes: 5,669
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Post by shutupbanks on Jan 11, 2023 23:03:55 GMT
1984, The Road, and Flowers for Algernon spring to mind too. Which may not entirely be what you mean by "sci fi" here, martinw8686 , but they fit the genre... I've read 1984 and The Road, I'll look up Flowers for Algernon though. The Road was very good, I read it very quickly, recently watched the film which was also very good, utterly heartbreaking, had me in tears at the end. I read 1984 when I was a teenager but funnily enough never read Animal Farm, I missed a lot of secondary school due to mental health struggles, I've also got Lord of the Flies on my to read list, along with a few others I missed out on. Flowers For Algernon is superb, one of the books of the century, IMNSHO. An interesting side fact about it is that after it was adapted into the film Charly (1968, which won Cliff Robertson a Best Actor Oscar), there were plans to adapt it into a musical, starring Michael Crawford. They went as far as having songs written for it. After the plans folded, the songwriters managed to repurpose one and reuse it for another musical. The song was eventually called “Tomorrow” and it was used in Annie.
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Post by Sir Wearer of Hats on Jan 12, 2023 1:24:06 GMT
Warhammer 40k..... It is pretty much as dark as it gets. They now even have a "Crime" and "Horror" range. As I said, the books by Abnett are awesome. If you start, start with Eisenhorn Xenos and work your way through the sequels. They are now also available as cheaper ebook bundles. And there is of course the amazing "Night Lords" trilogy, which follows a warband of monstrous villains and one that impressed me so much I have spend a lot of time and money collecting and painting a Night Lord army. The story of the once noble Talos Valcoran, who still has a tiny shred of honour, and his psychotic squad, told through the eyes of their enslaved human servants is a fantastic feat of character-development and world building. I love it. Oh, you were talking about "real" books, were you..... sorry.... I've often thought about dipping into Warhammer 40k but the number of books listed on the Black Library makes knowing where best to start from a bit of challenge, so thank you for the recommendation of Xenos. Have you read any of the Horus Herecy range? And if so is it worth dipping into that too? Where to start is … probably Xenos. It sets the tone, slow drips in facts and setting tropes. Tells a good story too. Do you like straight military sci-fi? Gaunt’s Ghosts (Sharpe in Space!) Do you like darkly comic military sci-fi? Caiphas Cain (Flashman/Blackadder in Space!) Grand sweeping epic of arrogance, stupidity, empires, honour, betrayal …? The Horus Heresy. Try Horus Rising it sets the tone nicely. Or Legion. Legion is a lot of fun, and establishes a sort of “Sub-genre” within the franchise of “Alpha Legion stories” (duplicity, cunning, magnificent bast…ahem…ary).
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Post by Sir Wearer of Hats on Jan 12, 2023 10:21:57 GMT
I've often thought about dipping into Warhammer 40k but the number of books listed on the Black Library makes knowing where best to start from a bit of challenge, so thank you for the recommendation of Xenos. Have you read any of the Horus Herecy range? And if so is it worth dipping into that too? Where to start is … probably Xenos. It sets the tone, slow drips in facts and setting tropes. Tells a good story too. Do you like straight military sci-fi? Gaunt’s Ghosts (Sharpe in Space!) Do you like darkly comic military sci-fi? Caiphas Cain (Flashman/Blackadder in Space!) Grand sweeping epic of arrogance, stupidity, empires, honour, betrayal …? The Horus Heresy. Try Horus Rising it sets the tone nicely. Or Legion. Legion is a lot of fun, and establishes a sort of “Sub-genre” within the franchise of “Alpha Legion stories” (duplicity, cunning, magnificent bast…ahem…ary). To go a little more in-depth: possible entry points: Ghost Maker (Gaunt’s Ghosts): first part of a 12 book series, pretty much a military focused series, with set dressing like the occasional weird psychic power or giants in power armour. Fleshed out characters, cast of about 5 major characters, 10 secondary but interesting characters and one of the most loathesome characters in any Warhammer, or any ANY really, fiction. It’s focused on humans, during a military campaign to recapture a couple of star systems. Xenos (Eisenhorn saga): first of 10 (the tenth to be released) focusing on one of two Inquisitors (people who are effectively above the law, who investigate dangerous Individuals within the Imperium). The worlds are really well established, well drawn, the characters believable annd engagingly written. Dos involve psychic powers, introduces them carefully and introduces other things like Astartes (Space Marines) but does not focus on them. It’s a sort of Mission: Impossible structure. A small team od experts versus equally expert and dangerous people. the Horus Heresy: 40 odd books* of varying quality, a vast sweeping epic with dozens of characters in each book, full of betrayal, explosions, death, hope, hopelessness, the death of empires and treason most foul. LOTS of Astartes. LOTS of psychic powers. LOTS OF DEATH. Your favourite character will die unless they’re Bjorn, Cawl or Thiel. You will hate Erebus. Early on in the series, thematically any story around “the dropsite massacre” can act as entry points. Horus Rising, Flight of the Eisenstein, Fulgrim, Legion or A Thousand Sons give a good entry point. As things go along, certain plot lines get their own books whereby you can sort of just follow those characters. *Fair warning, this is a series that crosses all media, full length novels, short stories, novellas, audio dramas.
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Post by tuigirl on Jan 12, 2023 10:45:23 GMT
Where to start is … probably Xenos. It sets the tone, slow drips in facts and setting tropes. Tells a good story too. Do you like straight military sci-fi? Gaunt’s Ghosts (Sharpe in Space!) Do you like darkly comic military sci-fi? Caiphas Cain (Flashman/Blackadder in Space!) Grand sweeping epic of arrogance, stupidity, empires, honour, betrayal …? The Horus Heresy. Try Horus Rising it sets the tone nicely. Or Legion. Legion is a lot of fun, and establishes a sort of “Sub-genre” within the franchise of “Alpha Legion stories” (duplicity, cunning, magnificent bast…ahem…ary). To go a little more in-depth: possible entry points: Ghost Maker (Gaunt’s Ghosts): first part of a 12 book series, pretty much a military focused series, with set dressing like the occasional weird psychic power or giants in power armour. Fleshed out characters, cast of about 5 major characters, 10 secondary but interesting characters and one of the most loathesome characters in any Warhammer, or any ANY really, fiction. It’s focused on humans, during a military campaign to recapture a couple of star systems. Xenos (Eisenhorn saga): first of 10 (the tenth to be released) focusing on one of two Inquisitors (people who are effectively above the law, who investigate dangerous Individuals within the Imperium). The worlds are really well established, well drawn, the characters believable annd engagingly written. Dos involve psychic powers, introduces them carefully and introduces other things like Astartes (Space Marines) but does not focus on them. It’s a sort of Mission: Impossible structure. A small team od experts versus equally expert and dangerous people. the Horus Heresy: 40 odd books* of varying quality, a vast sweeping epic with dozens of characters in each book, full of betrayal, explosions, death, hope, hopelessness, the death of empires and treason most foul. LOTS of Astartes. LOTS of psychic powers. LOTS OF DEATH. Your favourite character will die unless they’re Bjorn, Cawl or Thiel. You will hate Erebus. Early on in the series, thematically any story around “the dropsite massacre” can act as entry points. Horus Rising, Flight of the Eisenstein, Fulgrim, Legion or A Thousand Sons give a good entry point. As things go along, certain plot lines get their own books whereby you can sort of just follow those characters. *Fair warning, this is a series that crosses all media, full length novels, short stories, novellas, audio dramas. Awesome synopsis. I totally agree. Also, yes, this is a real rabbit warren one can get lost in.
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Post by The Brigadier on Jan 12, 2023 11:15:23 GMT
Blimey...a real labyrinth of possibilities..😲 Hat tip to tuigirl, sidestep and Sir Wearer of Hats for the Warhammer advice. Think I'll start with the Eisenhorn saga (the idea of a space age Mission Impossible appeals massively) and take it from there. Thank you!
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