|
|
Post by nucleusofswarm on Jul 9, 2023 0:42:51 GMT
Easy to say 'write a good story', but obviously there's more to the topic than that. What do you think, when an old villain is brought back successfully (Dalek being an easy example, but throw out others if you wish. I'd argue Rise/Age have merit, as does Utopia), is that special element, that X factor that takes it from mere nostalgia hit to genuine magic?
Going back to the roots? Reinvention? Presentation?
|
|
|
|
Post by Sir Wearer of Hats on Jul 9, 2023 0:59:09 GMT
Presentation - who expected “O” to be the Master? Who did n‘t cheer when Yana said those words?
But it has to be a “makes sense within the narrative” reveal, the “calling the war council on Gallifrey…” reveal was perfectly scaffolded in BUT ALSO a massive surprise. We all saw “Yana’s turn” coming but it was still epic because of the performance of all involved. Th3 Master on the Cheetah planet? Less so.
|
|
|
|
Post by martinw8686 on Jul 9, 2023 10:47:48 GMT
Doing something new or adding to the mythology.
The 60s Dalek stories for example,
The Daleks - Introduced the Daleks
Dalek Invasion of Earth - Dalek space travel & conquering other planets
The Chase - Dalek Time travel and pursuing the Doctor
The Dalek Master Plan - Epic story with Daleks manipulating other races. Introduction of space security service and Dalek Wars
Power of the Daleks - Daleks manipulate humans to believe they're subservient.
Evil of the Daleks - Daleks seek the human factor and force the Doctor to use Jaime for their experiments
The Pertwee Dalek stories work more like a greatest hits package, though enjoyable, they don't offer anything particularly new.
Genesis of the Daleks is brilliant because it works as a prequel, showing us the origins of the Daleks. Destiny less so because it repeats the formula rather than expanding it.
The 80s Dalek stories are interesting because new ideas are added but Davros has now become tethered to the Daleks. Remembrance of the Daleks is particularly interesting because we see the first hoovering Daleks, a Dalek civil War, the Doctor's scheming, the counterpoint team and the involvement of a creepy child.
|
|
enofa
Full Member
Likes: 122
|
Post by enofa on Jul 9, 2023 15:17:32 GMT
What made most of the returning villains good in the new series was that their return episodes were entirely about what made them so effective. They could have been new creations, and they could have worked as the only story featuring those creations, and been just as strong. The episode has to completely define them.
|
|
|
|
Post by martinw8686 on Jul 9, 2023 19:56:59 GMT
I loved Capaldi's episodes with returning villains, his darker Doctor had some great themes to work with.
His frenemy relationship with Missy (Dark Water/Death in Heaven)
His dilemma with whether to show young Davros mercy (Magician's Apprentice/Witch's Familiar)
His wonderful anti war speech with UNIT and the Zygons (Zygon Invasion/Inversion)
Seeing Bill become a Cyberman (World & Time/Doctor Falls)
All those episodes happen to be two parters, so time for greater world building and plot development. They all had a few recurring Who elements added to the mix, for example UNIT, Missy and the Master.
|
|
