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Post by newt5996 on Jan 17, 2016 3:47:28 GMT
Right so I've been listening to Absolution and am currently halfway through it. All the reviews I've read have been negative saying it's one of the worst Big Finish Releases and C'rizz is one of the most underdeveloped companions. While I disagree I'm curious on what everyone's thoughts are.
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Post by omega on Jan 17, 2016 4:06:59 GMT
I'm sure that the six season plan for the Divergent Universe did have a more substantial role for C'rizz, but it was cut down to two seasons of four stories each. The fact that he kept the consciousness of each person he killed in his head could have set him apart, but it only really popped up in Terror Firma and Memory Lane. It felt like the Eighth Doctor audios from that period were coasting, waiting for the next big shake-up so the writers didn't try to do much interesting with C'rizz, the fact he didn't look human or even came from this universe. Other Lives did use C'rizz's appearance well with the Victorian Freakshow, and C'rizz got quite violent in that story (another aspect of his personality totally underused, the fact that his personality changed to become like those he was around at any given time). Otherwise he was generic companion material. It did't help his first story as a proper companion, Natural History of Fear, was an out-of-character story, so we didn't get much of a chance to find out how he worked with the Doctor and Charley.
The stories that best utilised C'rizz for his unique aspects and abilities were Terror Firma, Other Lives and Memory Lane. He's well characterised in Caerdroia, though he's playing the straight man to the Tigger Doctor for much of the story.
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Post by icecreamdf on Jan 17, 2016 4:11:08 GMT
While I liked C'rizz's subplot in Other Lives, I really think they should have just left him in the Divergent Universe. It made sense for them to have a native as a companion while they were in that universe, but then in the main universe he was rarely interesting, and his stories and characterization just got weird.
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Post by seeley on Jan 17, 2016 4:40:27 GMT
I'm sure that the six season plan for the Divergent Universe did have a more substantial role for C'rizz, but it was cut down to two seasons of four stories each. Six seasons? Hoo boy. Who thought that was a good idea?
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Post by omega on Jan 17, 2016 4:50:39 GMT
I'm sure that the six season plan for the Divergent Universe did have a more substantial role for C'rizz, but it was cut down to two seasons of four stories each. Six seasons? Hoo boy. Who thought that was a good idea? Gary Russell. Thank goodness for the New Series, which cut that short.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2016 4:53:56 GMT
C'rizz has that unfortunate knack of fading into the background with many of his stories, the only ones I can think of where he makes any kind of impact is Time Works and Terror Firma. He wasn't a badly constructed companion from the outset per se, but he did suffer quite a bit from being poorly utilised. He was part of that era where the monthly range was still trying to hold onto Eight/Charley despite growing signs that they really did need to move on and do new things and while this did eventually yield us the wonderful Six/Charley run, it might have been better to introduce the Eighth Doctor as a man alone in nowhere. That and maybe getting someone to co-author with Philip Martin for The Creed of the Kromon. He's got terrific ideas, but half of the brilliance of Vengeance on Varos were interventions by Eric Saward and by the actors themselves (Eta and Arak, for the former and the poisonous vines, for the latter). He wasn't a character like Harry who you could have shunted off to the side without issue and needed to be centre focus for this new frightened and powerless Doctor.
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Post by Hieronymus on Jan 17, 2016 5:51:59 GMT
I think C'rizz suffered from Dodo Syndrome. Maybe there was a plan for his characterization at the start, but the character kept changing. Little bits of personality would come out in a story, such as his fear of cows, only to play no further part in that story and never surface again in any future adventure. Most of the time, he was bland. Then, suddenly, in Absolution {Spoiler} He dies horribly and without any real purpose. Adric also suffered from Dodo Syndrome.
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Post by Timelord007 on Jan 17, 2016 9:55:37 GMT
I loved Absolution, i think this is a very underrated story & the negative issues i think reflect on the companion of Crizz than the actual storytelling.
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Post by Ela on Jan 25, 2016 0:20:13 GMT
I always liked C'rizz as a character and don't have the complaints others have had about him. As far as the story Absolution in particular, it's been a while since I listened to it, but I thought it was a decent story.
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Post by Audio Watchdog on Jan 25, 2016 0:32:39 GMT
Not to be glib but the less I have to think about C'rizz the better. I think he was probably one of those creations that looked good on paper, sounded good in discussion that simply didn't work as everyone planned in execution. Much like the alternate universe he belonged in.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2016 0:38:27 GMT
I liked him in one story only, really, and that was Other Lives where his story was almost like that of John Merrick. The rest of the time I was either o the fence about him or actively disliking him - and not in the way I was supposed to.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2016 15:12:09 GMT
Absolution was the story I'd been hoping for... ever since The Creed of the Kromon. I actively disliked C'rizz and thought he was terribly annoying to listen to. I also think C'rizz spoilt the Doctor - Charley dynamic that had been working so well, and was a highlight of the Eighth Doctor main range stories up to then, so I never really took to him as a companion. Absolution as a story was reasonably good though, with a nice happy ending! So what more could anybody want?
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Post by randomjc on Jan 26, 2016 15:19:35 GMT
I think C'rizz suffered also from his first two stories after his introduction featured plot elements that changed character's personalities. There wasn't much of an attempt to develop a baseline for his character for the audience to notice a shift, and reveals that should have been built up to were shoved at us (like in The Next Life). Having not heard Absolution, (The only 8th doctor story I don't own) I can't comment on it specifically, but C'rizz was a character that wasn't used well, and it hurt him, greatly.
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Post by constonks on Jan 26, 2016 15:41:29 GMT
I thought C'rizz was a good idea on paper but not much of a character when all was said and done. I will agree that Charley and the Doctor lost that special something when he came on board. All in all, he's a meh companion, a group in which he does not stand alone.
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Post by christmastrenzalore on Jan 26, 2016 17:48:31 GMT
I liked C'rizz for the most part. Him, Eight and Charley just felt like a tree-house of friends. He could have been better though. His church ideals and transformative personality weren't very integral to his final story, though I do like it for all the satanic imagery and the sad ending.
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Post by Tony Jones on Jan 26, 2016 21:24:12 GMT
I thought he was ill-served by a lot of the stories and much of his supposed uniqueness was too visual. I liked a few of the stories but the whole arc feels to me like a failed but brave experiment
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Post by elgranto on Feb 11, 2016 6:10:37 GMT
Absolution is pretty good, not great. It's really the last five minutes that make it worth it, as they segue wonderfully into The Girl Who Never Was.
EDIT: Sorry, I hadn't realized how old this thread was. Anyway, assuming you've finished it by now, how did you enjoy it?
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Post by whiskeybrewer on Feb 11, 2016 13:17:15 GMT
They should do a couple of short trips with C'rizz. I think it would work with his mental state
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Post by aztec on Feb 11, 2016 17:33:37 GMT
C'Rizz like the Divergent Universe arc that spawned him, was on paper a very interesting character, but ultimately not quite as unusual or well executed as he should have been, his intriguing backstory and the idea of being an Alien in a new universe weren't really utilized as well as they should have been i.m.o, and I don't think B.F truly made the most of the rare 8th Dr/Male companion angle (more Fitz anyone?)
I think Mr Westmass did a very good job with the material he was given, great voice for the medium, C'Rizz may have been written as the whiny haphazardly developed third cog in the relationship alot of the time, but I had no trouble picturing the character or understanding why/how he acted the way he did most of the time, I'd certainly be open to any new stories with the trio if B.F ever revisited that period.
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Post by omega on Feb 11, 2016 22:48:43 GMT
C'Rizz like the Divergent Universe arc that spawned him, was on paper a very interesting character, but ultimately not quite as unusual or well executed as he should have been, his intriguing backstory and the idea of being an Alien in a new universe weren't really utilized as well as they should have been i.m.o, and I don't think B.F truly made the most of the rare 8th Dr/Male companion angle (more Fitz anyone?) I think Mr Westmass did a very good job with the material he was given, great voice for the medium, C'Rizz may have been written as the whiny haphazardly developed third cog in the relationship alot of the time, but I had no trouble picturing the character or understanding why/how he acted the way he did most of the time, I'd certainly be open to any new stories with the trio if B.F ever revisited that period. Given that one of the things that happened soon after Nick Briggs taking the reins was C'rizz being written out, I can't see the character appearing in new stories anytime soon. Anyway, at this point Big Finish are intent on chronicling the ongoing adventures of the Eighth Doctor instead of exploring past stages of his life (Charley appeared in the Destiny of the Doctor and Light at the End, but both were anniversary celebrations). Conrad Westmaas did do the best with the material he was given, and there were flashes of interesting writing for C'rizz, but this wasn't consistent and the writers didn't seem to collaborate much in regards for an arc with him. Indeed, what is goes through in Absolution isn't foreshadowed or built up in previous stories.
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