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Post by bonehead on Apr 18, 2024 8:55:17 GMT
You can - and BF have, often - alter the tone of an ongoing series without making it "Unbound". I think the problem is this could dilute the entire point of Unbound - something aking to What If for Marvel or Elseworlds for DC. If its just "The 1DA range but pacier"? I dont get it. We also had a few words on here the other day about Big Finish's age issue. David Bradley will be nearly 84 when the first of these hits. Nobody wants to be morbid but is there any kind of strategy for Big Finish to remain long term? As through retirement or..that...a lot of the casts - a lot - simply will not be here in 10 years for audio. 20 years working for councils in Lancashire with statistics in age showed me that the hard way. A massive chunk of the casts are above the average life expectancy. Some that are under are heavy smokers. When even Janet Fielding is in her 70s, I do ask an uncomfortable question sometimes - is there really any idea of keeping Big Finish going? Jason and Nick are about retirement age. David Richardson did retire from his full post. Is Big Finish just their works and then no real interest to keep it? Just let the rights revert? Guys in their 60s producing talent in their 80s is not a business model for the future. Age and mortality is a thorny subject, and not something I've thought about a lot, although It did occur to me that Russell T Davies and Steven Moffat, who might be said to be 'steering' Doctor Who on television this year, have a combined age of 122 - but that's off-topic! Perhaps Doctor Who is so ingrained in its own vast history that it's not a young person's game anymore? I do think though, that when (if!) Nick decides to chuck it all in, there'll be someone to take over. There's a lot of talent at BF, and I can't see it stopping for any other reason than lack of sales. To pick up on what you say regarding Susan - she's one of Doctor Who's most 'important' characters but has hardly been used by BF, which is surprising, just as it was when they only used The Brigadier as a regular returning character more after Nick Courtney had passed away than when he was alive.
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Post by number13 on Apr 18, 2024 8:55:54 GMT
You can - and BF have, often - alter the tone of an ongoing series without making it "Unbound". I think the problem is this could dilute the entire point of Unbound - something aking to What If for Marvel or Elseworlds for DC. If its just "The 1DA range but pacier"? I dont get it. Hasn't the original 'Unbound' concept passed into ancient history thanks to edicts from the High Council, Cardiff? No new Unbound Doctors allowed and apart from the wonderful David Warner Benny sets and Once and Future episode we've not heard a peep from the original 'Unbound' range in any form for over 20 years!
After the 'Warrior' stories (which I've not heard yet) and now this announcement, I'm guessing that BF are using 'Unbound' to mean 'a Doctor you know, behaving in a way you'd never have seen him do on screen'. Could be a complete alternate timeline as with Sixie, could be primarily a shift in style and tone with some Space/Time event being a convenient excuse for why it's so different. (As I think the New 1DAs will be.)
True, not 'Unbound' as it was meant in 2003 but in 2024 I think 'Unbound' means just what BF choose it to mean – neither more nor less.
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Post by bonehead on Apr 18, 2024 9:10:47 GMT
You can - and BF have, often - alter the tone of an ongoing series without making it "Unbound". I think the problem is this could dilute the entire point of Unbound - something aking to What If for Marvel or Elseworlds for DC. If its just "The 1DA range but pacier"? I dont get it. Hasn't the original 'Unbound' concept passed into ancient history thanks to edicts from the High Council, Cardiff? No new Unbound Doctors allowed and apart from the wonderful David Warner Benny sets and Once and Future episode we've not heard a peep from the original 'Unbound' range in any form for over 20 years!
After the 'Warrior' stories (which I've not heard yet) and now this announcement, I'm guessing that BF are using 'Unbound' to mean 'a Doctor you know, behaving in a way you'd never have seen him do on screen'. Could be a complete alternate timeline as with Sixie, could be primarily a shift in style and tone with some Space/Time event being a convenient excuse for why it's so different. (As I think the New 1DAs will be.)
True, not 'Unbound' as it was meant in 2003 but in 2024 I think 'Unbound' means just what BF choose it to mean – neither more nor less. Yep, I remember reading that the TV people didn't want the Unbound range to continue as it had - for reasons I don't really understand to be honest! So BF could either have dropped the range, or 'tweaked' it slightly as they have done here. As I say, I have no problem with the idea at all. David Bradley has always given his own interpretation of the First Doctor, whereas Stephen Noonan has very much 'done a Hartnell', quite brilliantly in my view, more in keeping with the original (you might say!).
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Post by andy on Apr 18, 2024 9:12:40 GMT
You can - and BF have, often - alter the tone of an ongoing series without making it "Unbound". I think the problem is this could dilute the entire point of Unbound - something aking to What If for Marvel or Elseworlds for DC. If its just "The 1DA range but pacier"? I dont get it. Hasn't the original 'Unbound' concept passed into ancient history thanks to edicts from the High Council, Cardiff? No new Unbound Doctors allowed and apart from the wonderful David Warner Benny sets and Once and Future episode we've not heard a peep from the original 'Unbound' range in any form for over 20 years!
After the 'Warrior' stories (which I've not heard yet) and now this announcement, I'm guessing that BF are using 'Unbound' to mean 'a Doctor you know, behaving in a way you'd never have seen him do on screen'. Could be a complete alternate timeline as with Sixie, could be primarily a shift in style and tone with some Space/Time event being a convenient excuse for why it's so different. (As I think the New 1DAs will be.)
True, not 'Unbound' as it was meant in 2003 but in 2024 I think 'Unbound' means just what BF choose it to mean – neither more nor less. Yep, but my point was that they could have had that in 2003 too and still been Unbound. The notion of Unbound (and whatever name it has, loads of franchises have an equivalent) is an alteration to "canon". That CAN be an actor or character - Thomas Wayne was Batman for an Elseworld for one. Or it can be a story beat - Tom's action changing the timeline but not the "face" of The Doctor. Either is a valid way of being "unbound" - I was responding to the comment that because Colin played The Doctor, it somehow can't be "unbound".
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Post by andy on Apr 18, 2024 9:17:44 GMT
Hasn't the original 'Unbound' concept passed into ancient history thanks to edicts from the High Council, Cardiff? No new Unbound Doctors allowed and apart from the wonderful David Warner Benny sets and Once and Future episode we've not heard a peep from the original 'Unbound' range in any form for over 20 years!
After the 'Warrior' stories (which I've not heard yet) and now this announcement, I'm guessing that BF are using 'Unbound' to mean 'a Doctor you know, behaving in a way you'd never have seen him do on screen'. Could be a complete alternate timeline as with Sixie, could be primarily a shift in style and tone with some Space/Time event being a convenient excuse for why it's so different. (As I think the New 1DAs will be.)
True, not 'Unbound' as it was meant in 2003 but in 2024 I think 'Unbound' means just what BF choose it to mean – neither more nor less. Yep, I remember reading that the TV people didn't want the Unbound range to continue as it had - for reasons I don't really understand to be honest! So BF could either have dropped the range, or 'tweaked' it slightly as they have done here. As I say, I have no problem with the idea at all. David Bradley has always given his own interpretation of the First Doctor, whereas Stephen Noonan has very much 'done a Hartnell', quite brilliantly in my view, more in keeping with the original (you might say!). There was a lot more concern in the first days of New Who that things had to be altered to suit a newer audiences for licencees. So Big Finish had to tone down the more adult elements, make the Doctors ones that the public would know only and ask before using returning elements every time - hence The Master being refused for use for a number of years and The Hollows Of Time having a substitute as Russell T wanted what became the Simm Master, so no competing ones. I'd say in an age where we've had 4 Batmans and 4 Spidermans in the cinema alone, that wouldn't be an issue if it happened now. Audiences know multiverses or prequels a lot more.
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Post by timleschild on Apr 18, 2024 9:21:44 GMT
You can - and BF have, often - alter the tone of an ongoing series without making it "Unbound". I think the problem is this could dilute the entire point of Unbound - something aking to What If for Marvel or Elseworlds for DC. If its just "The 1DA range but pacier"? I dont get it. We also had a few words on here the other day about Big Finish's age issue. David Bradley will be nearly 84 when the first of these hits. Nobody wants to be morbid but is there any kind of strategy for Big Finish to remain long term? As through retirement or..that...a lot of the casts - a lot - simply will not be here in 10 years for audio. 20 years working for councils in Lancashire with statistics in age showed me that the hard way. A massive chunk of the casts are above the average life expectancy. Some that are under are heavy smokers. When even Janet Fielding is in her 70s, I do ask an uncomfortable question sometimes - is there really any idea of keeping Big Finish going? Jason and Nick are about retirement age. David Richardson did retire from his full post. Is Big Finish just their works and then no real interest to keep it? Just let the rights revert? Guys in their 60s producing talent in their 80s is not a business model for the future. Some valid points. I always though the Unbound range should take the Doctor or some familiar characters in radically different directions like as you say the things Marvel do or DC (Red Son with baby Superman crash landing in the Soviet Union, Gotham By Gaslight transposing Batman to the 1880s), But even the ones I enjoy, David Warner's Doctor & Bennie for example, offer stories which could fit into regular Doctor Who. Maybe the BBC won't let them? I would love an audio based on Matthew Sweet's The Master and Margarita about the Spy Master working for the Soviet's version of UNIT. The age thing is an issue, maybe that is why Briggs etc don't bother much with PR/attracting a new audience?
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Post by andy on Apr 18, 2024 9:25:27 GMT
You can - and BF have, often - alter the tone of an ongoing series without making it "Unbound". I think the problem is this could dilute the entire point of Unbound - something aking to What If for Marvel or Elseworlds for DC. If its just "The 1DA range but pacier"? I dont get it. We also had a few words on here the other day about Big Finish's age issue. David Bradley will be nearly 84 when the first of these hits. Nobody wants to be morbid but is there any kind of strategy for Big Finish to remain long term? As through retirement or..that...a lot of the casts - a lot - simply will not be here in 10 years for audio. 20 years working for councils in Lancashire with statistics in age showed me that the hard way. A massive chunk of the casts are above the average life expectancy. Some that are under are heavy smokers. When even Janet Fielding is in her 70s, I do ask an uncomfortable question sometimes - is there really any idea of keeping Big Finish going? Jason and Nick are about retirement age. David Richardson did retire from his full post. Is Big Finish just their works and then no real interest to keep it? Just let the rights revert? Guys in their 60s producing talent in their 80s is not a business model for the future. Some valid points. I always though the Unbound range should take the Doctor or some familiar characters in radically different directions like as you say the things Marvel do or DC (Red Son with baby Superman crash landing in the Soviet Union, Gotham By Gaslight transposing Batman to the 1880s), But even the ones I enjoy, David Warner's Doctor & Bennie for example, offer stories which could fit into regular Doctor Who. Maybe the BBC won't let them? I would love an audio based on Matthew Sweet's The Master and Margarita about the Spy Master working for the Soviet's version of UNIT. The age thing is an issue, maybe that is why Briggs etc don't bother much with PR/attracting a new audience? A lot of stories feel like the Warner ones that don't need to be "Unbound", sadly. When there's a Time War story, for one, and The Doctor is essentially the exact same with the plot being one any Doctor could do - just with a coda that is maybe darker, or some lines about Daleks? Always feels a waste.
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Post by sherlock on Apr 18, 2024 9:52:32 GMT
Yep, I remember reading that the TV people didn't want the Unbound range to continue as it had - for reasons I don't really understand to be honest! So BF could either have dropped the range, or 'tweaked' it slightly as they have done here. As I say, I have no problem with the idea at all. David Bradley has always given his own interpretation of the First Doctor, whereas Stephen Noonan has very much 'done a Hartnell', quite brilliantly in my view, more in keeping with the original (you might say!). There was a lot more concern in the first days of New Who that things had to be altered to suit a newer audiences for licencees. So Big Finish had to tone down the more adult elements, make the Doctors ones that the public would know only and ask before using returning elements every time - hence The Master being refused for use for a number of years and The Hollows Of Time having a substitute as Russell T wanted what became the Simm Master, so no competing ones. I'd say in an age where we've had 4 Batmans and 4 Spidermans in the cinema alone, that wouldn't be an issue if it happened now. Audiences know multiverses or prequels a lot more. Still happens nowadays. Most recent example that’s been admitted to was a story in first War Room set had to reworked to ditch an appearance of Time being sentient, as Flux was doing the same thing. I wouldn’t be surprised if appearances of Hebe become scarce due to Ruth Madeley’s other role on TV.
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Post by grinch on Apr 18, 2024 10:11:48 GMT
There was a lot more concern in the first days of New Who that things had to be altered to suit a newer audiences for licencees. So Big Finish had to tone down the more adult elements, make the Doctors ones that the public would know only and ask before using returning elements every time - hence The Master being refused for use for a number of years and The Hollows Of Time having a substitute as Russell T wanted what became the Simm Master, so no competing ones. I'd say in an age where we've had 4 Batmans and 4 Spidermans in the cinema alone, that wouldn't be an issue if it happened now. Audiences know multiverses or prequels a lot more. Still happens nowadays. Most recent example that’s been admitted to was a story in first War Room set had to reworked to ditch an appearance of Time being sentient, as Flux was doing the same thing. I wouldn’t be surprised if appearances of Hebe become scarce due to Ruth Madeley’s other role on TV. I seem to recall a War Master story having to be changed owing to something similar. A story about the Witch Trials had to have its setting changed to the Second World War. The execution of which really let the take down in my opinion.
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Post by andy on Apr 18, 2024 18:55:25 GMT
Still happens nowadays. Most recent example that’s been admitted to was a story in first War Room set had to reworked to ditch an appearance of Time being sentient, as Flux was doing the same thing. I wouldn’t be surprised if appearances of Hebe become scarce due to Ruth Madeley’s other role on TV. I seem to recall a War Master story having to be changed owing to something similar. A story about the Witch Trials had to have its setting changed to the Second World War. The execution of which really let the take down in my opinion. I can see why they wouldn't want something with the same setting, the same rough plot. But to Sherlock's point I'd say we're past the point of "The Master is coming back - Big Finish can't have them". It's subtly different brand protection.
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Post by noneofyourbusiness on Apr 19, 2024 17:55:52 GMT
It does make me question does this mean that the David Bradley first Doctor audios previously are set in their own universe with this Boxset Or is this still set in the Stephen Noonan first Doctor era/ rest of big finish The latter, I think. They're still listed under First Doctor Adventures rather than Unbound.
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Post by noneofyourbusiness on Apr 19, 2024 17:58:28 GMT
I think the problem is this could dilute the entire point of Unbound - something aking to What If for Marvel or Elseworlds for DC. If its just "The 1DA range but pacier"? I dont get it. I'm not assuming that the stories will be in continuity with each other and not different what ifs featuring the First Doctor and co.
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Post by theillusiveman on Apr 20, 2024 6:56:28 GMT
Still happens nowadays. Most recent example that’s been admitted to was a story in first War Room set had to reworked to ditch an appearance of Time being sentient, as Flux was doing the same thing. I wouldn’t be surprised if appearances of Hebe become scarce due to Ruth Madeley’s other role on TV. I seem to recall a War Master story having to be changed owing to something similar. A story about the Witch Trials had to have its setting changed to the Second World War. The execution of which really let the take down in my opinion. Wasn’t that volume 5 hearts of darkness and they couldn’t get the rights to Morbius and honestly not heart broken that Hebe might not be coming back anytime soon
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enofa
Full Member
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Post by enofa on Apr 21, 2024 9:15:30 GMT
I know they’re broadly considered to be part of the main continuity, but I’ve always treated the earlier sets as Unbound anyway - “what if the AAISAT cast were actually the real cast?” Their performances are largely very different to Russell, Ford and Hartnell in particular that I can’t listen to them and actually imagine them as the same people in the slightest. So this doesn’t really change much for me.
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Post by andy on Apr 21, 2024 11:55:46 GMT
I know they’re broadly considered to be part of the main continuity, but I’ve always treated the earlier sets as Unbound anyway - “what if the AAISAT cast were actually the real cast?” Their performances are largely very different to Russell, Ford and Hartnell in particular that I can’t listen to them and actually imagine them as the same people in the slightest. So this doesn’t really change much for me. That's the sort of odd thing. None were cast because they could play their Who roles. They were barely cast to play Russ, Jacqueline and Carol-Anne, the parts were so small that a slight resemblance was enough for the AAISAT film. When playing the actual roles I too have found them so different it's almost another continuity. So - headcanon stuff - David Bradley in Twice Upon A Time was playing the Doctor we know from TV as was Richard Hurndall, but on audio he's a separate thing with different versions of his companion. Potentially yet another set of different versions of the same ones here. Then add Geoffrey Bayldon and Peter Cushing and....phew. Oh, and Jane Asher played Susan for the BBC Radio in the 90s. No wonder "don't take continuity so seriously" is the best advice. Just ONE incarnation can cause a lot of headaches!
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Post by Kestrel on Apr 23, 2024 21:08:10 GMT
Huh. This is both exciting and kinda baffling. What's the point of doing Unbound stories with the first Doctor? What kind of stories does this allow that wouldn't be possible within the normal continuity?
Are we gonna see this Doctor going around trying to straight-up murder people? Old news. Not really sure how they'll differentiate the character enough to make this worthwhile.
The obvious answer would be that it's an opportunity for the 1st Doctor to play around with different companions... but they don't seem to be doing that. Maybe I'm being too cynical, but this feels more like Big Finish wanting to separate the Noonan and Bradley 1DAs into two separate ranges. And given how disorganized Big Finish can be with these things -- hell, practically mqlorganized -- I wouldn't really be suprised.
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