mbt66
Chancellery Guard
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Post by mbt66 on Jun 26, 2024 9:45:39 GMT
When the move away from the monthly range was announced and the Seventh Doctor’s lead up to his Last Day was spoken about I had envisaged him have a final season of stories. Foreshadowing his end, with him trying to complete plans he had started, all leading to a confrontation with the Daleks and the collection of the Master’s ashes.
Does this even cover his trip to Skaro?
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Post by mark687 on Jun 26, 2024 11:01:04 GMT
When the move away from the monthly range was announced and the Seventh Doctor’s lead up to his Last Day was spoken about I had envisaged him have a final season of stories. Foreshadowing his end, with him trying to complete plans he had started, all leading to a confrontation with the Daleks and the collection of the Master’s ashes. Does this even cover his trip to Skaro?Barely and BF Style Regards mark687
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mbt66
Chancellery Guard
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Post by mbt66 on Jun 26, 2024 11:59:12 GMT
When the move away from the monthly range was announced and the Seventh Doctor’s lead up to his Last Day was spoken about I had envisaged him have a final season of stories. Foreshadowing his end, with him trying to complete plans he had started, all leading to a confrontation with the Daleks and the collection of the Master’s ashes. Does this even cover his trip to Skaro?Barely and BF Style Regards mark687 Thank you for the response, but what does “BF Style” mean?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2024 12:52:44 GMT
When the move away from the monthly range was announced and the Seventh Doctor’s lead up to his Last Day was spoken about I had envisaged him have a final season of stories. Foreshadowing his end, with him trying to complete plans he had started, all leading to a confrontation with the Daleks and the collection of the Master’s ashes. Does this even cover his trip to Skaro? Having now finished it, firstly - it's a dogs dinner. And no, it doesn't cover his trip. These aren't plot spoilers, per se but... The set ends with him and Ace having a version of a conversation we've heard a million variations of and he gets the call from Gallifrey (but they were calling any Doctor, not this one especially) to pick up The Master's remains after a ceasefire was brokered (which is so...dumb - at least do a story at some point where this ceasefire seeds a Dalek trap) and off he goes. The Master was caught and abandoned on Skaro earlier - and that was a nothing event too.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2024 12:57:15 GMT
Tried 2 eps - it's so impossibly convoluted. I thought it might be less so than the first. It's just more of the first. Ep. 1 with Mel talking to an AI with the Doctor's voice....just technobabble BS about creating paradoxes for 25 mins. Then Ep 2 is just the same as the first box - Ace manipulating Cassie and Hex in their alternative lives to do things to convince them about...oh who cares. Who the hell thought a sequel to Quantum Probability Engine from the Monthly Range was a good idea for The Last Day of the Seventh Doctor? I know others have said it but in the REAL Universe, there's enough baggage between The Doctor and Ace to justify a story. To do this as one big soup of forgettable characters and make it a sequel to half-forgotten stories? No. I'm all for high concept but it takes a special writer to pull it off. You wouldn't want RTD writing River's arc. You wouldn't want Moffat writing Rose's family dynamic. Writers have strengths and weaknesses. This plays into ALL Fitton and Adam's worst. And this SHOULD be accessible. Should be a "good jumping on". Non-BF listeners know Ace and Seven. It should have been written so they can pick it up, maybe a Sylv fan. Colin's Last Adventure was written to be friendly for the newbs and it got some listeners into Big Finish. This would have them running from the hills. It's not just bad for the event of The Last Day - it's bad for Big Finish in general. So much is just noise. Having now finished? It's an all time clunker. One of the worst BF releases. It's 11 eps of the same thing. That thing being convoluted and annoying. Then a reset and boom. Off to pick up The Master's remains. This set doesn't tell us ANYTHING new. About The Doctor, Ace, The Master...anyone. It doesn't add to the TV Movie. I cannot stress enough to the curious...avoid. Once And Future was tight, well-plotted and deftly structured compared to this.
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Post by sherlock on Jun 26, 2024 13:11:09 GMT
Tried 2 eps - it's so impossibly convoluted. I thought it might be less so than the first. It's just more of the first. Ep. 1 with Mel talking to an AI with the Doctor's voice....just technobabble BS about creating paradoxes for 25 mins. Then Ep 2 is just the same as the first box - Ace manipulating Cassie and Hex in their alternative lives to do things to convince them about...oh who cares. Who the hell thought a sequel to Quantum Probability Engine from the Monthly Range was a good idea for The Last Day of the Seventh Doctor? I know others have said it but in the REAL Universe, there's enough baggage between The Doctor and Ace to justify a story. To do this as one big soup of forgettable characters and make it a sequel to half-forgotten stories? No. I'm all for high concept but it takes a special writer to pull it off. You wouldn't want RTD writing River's arc. You wouldn't want Moffat writing Rose's family dynamic. Writers have strengths and weaknesses. This plays into ALL Fitton and Adam's worst. And this SHOULD be accessible. Should be a "good jumping on". Non-BF listeners know Ace and Seven. It should have been written so they can pick it up, maybe a Sylv fan. Colin's Last Adventure was written to be friendly for the newbs and it got some listeners into Big Finish. This would have them running from the hills. It's not just bad for the event of The Last Day - it's bad for Big Finish in general. So much is just noise. Having now finished? It's an all time clunker. One of the worst BF releases. It's 11 eps of the same thing. That thing being convoluted and annoying. Then a reset and boom. Off to pick up The Master's remains. This set doesn't tell us ANYTHING new. About The Doctor, Ace, The Master...anyone. It doesn't add to the TV Movie. I cannot stress enough to the curious...avoid. Once And Future was tight, well-plotted and deftly structured compared to this. Blimey! Well I thought I’d wait on reviews and that might make up my mind. I did do my homework on Dark Universe and that experience didn’t make me any keener.
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Post by mark687 on Jun 26, 2024 14:33:10 GMT
Barely and BF Style Regards mark687 Thank you for the response, but what does “BF Style” mean? Like the Time War its indirectly "All Narvin's fault"! Doc Daleks Exterminated Master who wanted you to bring his ashes home. LOL Regards mark687
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Post by mark687 on Jun 26, 2024 15:36:38 GMT
Having now finished? It's an all time clunker. One of the worst BF releases. It's 11 eps of the same thing. That thing being convoluted and annoying. Then a reset and boom. Off to pick up The Master's remains. This set doesn't tell us ANYTHING new. About The Doctor, Ace, The Master...anyone. It doesn't add to the TV Movie. I cannot stress enough to the curious...avoid. Once And Future was tight, well-plotted and deftly structured compared to this. Blimey! Well I thought I’d wait on reviews and that might make up my mind. I did do my homework on Dark Universe and that experience didn’t make me any keener. It's true it really could've been done in one 4 hour Boxset. Regards mark687
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mbt66
Chancellery Guard
Likes: 3,100
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Post by mbt66 on Jun 26, 2024 16:41:17 GMT
Having now finished? It's an all time clunker. One of the worst BF releases. It's 11 eps of the same thing. That thing being convoluted and annoying. Then a reset and boom. Off to pick up The Master's remains. This set doesn't tell us ANYTHING new. About The Doctor, Ace, The Master...anyone. It doesn't add to the TV Movie. I cannot stress enough to the curious...avoid. Once And Future was tight, well-plotted and deftly structured compared to this. Blimey! Well I thought I’d wait on reviews and that might make up my mind. I did do my homework on Dark Universe and that experience didn’t make me any keener. I really liked Dark Universe, but wished it had been a box set, rather than a two disc story. In fact I wished it had been a multiple box set release. The Seventh Doctor’s own Dark Eyes style epic, perhaps even leading into his real last day. Oh well, Big Finish evidently had different ideas…
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Post by Star Platinum on Jun 27, 2024 1:26:17 GMT
Tried 2 eps - it's so impossibly convoluted. I thought it might be less so than the first. It's just more of the first. Ep. 1 with Mel talking to an AI with the Doctor's voice....just technobabble BS about creating paradoxes for 25 mins. Then Ep 2 is just the same as the first box - Ace manipulating Cassie and Hex in their alternative lives to do things to convince them about...oh who cares. Who the hell thought a sequel to Quantum Probability Engine from the Monthly Range was a good idea for The Last Day of the Seventh Doctor? I know others have said it but in the REAL Universe, there's enough baggage between The Doctor and Ace to justify a story. To do this as one big soup of forgettable characters and make it a sequel to half-forgotten stories? No. I'm all for high concept but it takes a special writer to pull it off. You wouldn't want RTD writing River's arc. You wouldn't want Moffat writing Rose's family dynamic. Writers have strengths and weaknesses. This plays into ALL Fitton and Adam's worst. And this SHOULD be accessible. Should be a "good jumping on". Non-BF listeners know Ace and Seven. It should have been written so they can pick it up, maybe a Sylv fan. Colin's Last Adventure was written to be friendly for the newbs and it got some listeners into Big Finish. This would have them running from the hills. It's not just bad for the event of The Last Day - it's bad for Big Finish in general. So much is just noise. Having now finished? It's an all time clunker. One of the worst BF releases. It's 11 eps of the same thing. That thing being convoluted and annoying. Then a reset and boom. Off to pick up The Master's remains. This set doesn't tell us ANYTHING new. About The Doctor, Ace, The Master...anyone. It doesn't add to the TV Movie. I cannot stress enough to the curious...avoid. Once And Future was tight, well-plotted and deftly structured compared to this. While this was certainly a pair of very bloated, convoluted stories, this is far from one of the worst releases big finish has ever released. I would return to this pair of sets before I ever consider listening to stories like Nekromantea, Dark Husband, Exile, Beyond the Ultimate Adventure, or the second Klein Trilogy. I could go on quite easily with stories I would rank above this. I think we needed to see more of the build up as to why the Doctor needed to take these actions, I feel like there’s a missing link where we sort of just arrive here with the Doctor instead of his character arc bringing us here. There were things I really did like in these sets. Mel and Benny were excellent together, they really bounced off of each other well. Chris and Roz are always nice to hear, and I was surprised to see So Vile a Sin referenced so heavily. This story did have a sense of bridging both the Big Finish and the VNA continuities. Kane was quite good, I enjoyed his character and he bounced off the other villains well. Mother was nice and seeing her interact with the Master was something I’ve been looking forward too, though I’m surprised it happened here and not in a 3DA. Overall, there are good bits, and bad bits. The pieces never really come together, and there are things not quite properly explained. Would I recommend this to a newcomer to the 7th Doctor? No. It relays on too much continuity between the show, the novels and the audios. Do I think it’s without redeeming factors? No. There are fun moments sprinkled across the six hours. I’d give it a 6/10 personally.
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Post by Chakoteya on Jun 27, 2024 9:01:56 GMT
Hmm. Does this mean we will be getting a (5D/6D/7D/12D) Comic Adventures series to fill out Hob's story to people who didn't get the comics back in the day? Or will Mother get sounded (fleshed) out for future use? Because I've never heard of her before...
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2024 11:10:51 GMT
Having now finished? It's an all time clunker. One of the worst BF releases. It's 11 eps of the same thing. That thing being convoluted and annoying. Then a reset and boom. Off to pick up The Master's remains. This set doesn't tell us ANYTHING new. About The Doctor, Ace, The Master...anyone. It doesn't add to the TV Movie. I cannot stress enough to the curious...avoid. Once And Future was tight, well-plotted and deftly structured compared to this. While this was certainly a pair of very bloated, convoluted stories, this is far from one of the worst releases big finish has ever released. I would return to this pair of sets before I ever consider listening to stories lik e Nekromantea, Dark Husband, Exile, Beyond the Ultimate Adventure, or the second Klein Trilogy. I could go on quite easily with stories I would rank above this. I think we needed to see more of the build up as to why the Doctor needed to take these actions, I feel like there’s a missing link where we sort of just arrive here with the Doctor instead of his character arc bringing us here. There were things I really did like in these sets. Mel and Benny were excellent together, they really bounced off of each other well. Chris and Roz are always nice to hear, and I was surprised to see So Vile a Sin referenced so heavily. This story did have a sense of bridging both the Big Finish and the VNA continuities. Kane was quite good, I enjoyed his character and he bounced off the other villains well. Mother was nice and seeing her interact with the Master was something I’ve been looking forward too, though I’m surprised it happened here and not in a 3DA. Overall, there are good bits, and bad bits. The pieces never really come together, and there are things not quite properly explained. Would I recommend this to a newcomer to the 7th Doctor? No. It relays on too much continuity between the show, the novels and the audios. Do I think it’s without redeeming factors? No. There are fun moments sprinkled across the six hours. I’d give it a 6/10 personally. I think everything in it's place. This is much more of a letdown than something like a companion chronicles (Beyond) or bad comedy (Exile) - it's relative. This was a big, expensive set. I paid a lot more to be let down here than for any of those - and I don't hate Dark Husband or the second Klein trilogy. But the most any of those cost me was £15. Less as they had the sub model at the time and none were "events", they were this months efforts and we moved on to the next CC or MR release. This cost the best part of £50 to get both sets on disc and it's an "important" release. And frankly even cost aside, the sheer padding and lack of coherency over SIX HOURS means I would put it on their worst ever. It's a big deal of a release they hyped up and yet it turned into BF's worst excesses of kitchen sink, the writer's own creations being used despite no-one caring. Call backs to one off characters from forgotten releases in the MR and 3DAs. Another "Seventh Doctor is dark, too dark...and pushes his friends" premise wasn't needed at all, especially an alternative reality that's reset at the end, but if it was? I can only imagine just about all the regular BF writers would have better ideas how to do it. I'd honestly use a lot of words for this set - "fun" would never, for a minute, be one. "Ace vs The Doctor"...GO - if this is the best Fitton and Adams can do with a premise like that? They, with some others, are now on my "will wait for reviews" list.
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melkur
Chancellery Guard
Likes: 4,021
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Post by melkur on Jun 27, 2024 12:48:05 GMT
Whilst I will admit that I haven't listened to part 1 since it first came out, this one I actually enjoyed, as it felt like things were actually (finally) happening!
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Post by mark687 on Jun 27, 2024 12:52:48 GMT
Whilst I will admit that I haven't listened to part 1 since it first came out, this one I actually enjoyed, as it felt like things were actually (finally) happening! That't Good you don't really need to listen to Part 1 again Just imagine the 1st 2 EPs of Part 2. Regards mark687
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Post by temporalspleen on Jun 27, 2024 21:39:00 GMT
Some very harsh reviews here, I think I enjoyed this more than a lot of people did but I still found it disappointing. I'm a huge Seventh Doctor fan, and I thought the premise of an epic twelve-part story where the Doctor finally goes too far and Ace has to bring together all his old companions to defeat him sounded great. And I will say I'm pleasantly surprised how well it managed to juggle the large cast. Yes, you can argue the story was padded (it was) or overly convoluted (it definitely was) but having so many plot threads allowed all the characters to have their moments to shine. I particularly liked the pairing of Mel and Benny, but I think everyone got a few good character moments. For the most part I was just along for the ride, enjoying hearing all of the companions crossing over. After the first set I never expected this to be an all-time great story, but it felt like a fun romp at least. The ending, however, was a colossal disappointment. Whenever the Seventh Doctor has done something questionable, we've always been able to understand his motivation even if we don't agree. In this story, his villainy is dialled up to eleven with seemingly no reason for conquering the universe beyond vague allusions to "the greater good". McCoy does sinister really well, but it all counts for nought when Ace confronts him and it all just kind of fizzles out. It also just feels very contrived that this grand manipulator who conquered the universe gets defeated so easily. I feel like I was able to come up with a better ending in all of five minutes:
That still wouldn't have been *great* but it would have been better than what we got, I think. If this weren't the Seventh Doctor's "final" story it'd be more forgivable, but what we got feels like a huge missed opportunity.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2024 22:22:16 GMT
That still wouldn't have been *great* but it would have been better than what we got, I think. If this weren't the Seventh Doctor's "final" story it'd be more forgivable, but what we got feels like a huge missed opportunity.
I wonder if they even did. We got a set up for the TV Movie already - Doom Coalition starts with The Doctor being called by Romana to retrieve the remains, after he caught The Eleven. That music on the record player McCOy listens to from the TV Movie is public domain - maybe just have him stick that on, take it off and say "I'll listen tomorrow" ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/6343532/images/ZBDvOFPmQgNwxFXLpuoD.gif)
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Kestrel
Chancellery Guard
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Post by Kestrel on Jun 28, 2024 1:58:28 GMT
Yikes. I bought, so I'll listen to it eventually, but wow... this story should've been a slam-dunk, it's almost hard to imagine how Big Finish could've fumbled the ball this badly.... only I'm willing to bet that when I do listen to it, I'll see a lot of the same issues I've seen in other recent sub-par boxsets. I think everything in it's place. This is much more of a letdown than something like a companion chronicles (Beyond) or bad comedy (Exile) - it's relative. This was a big, expensive set. I paid a lot more to be let down here than for any of those - and I don't hate Dark Husband or the second Klein trilogy. But the most any of those cost me was £15. Less as they had the sub model at the time and none were "events", they were this months efforts and we moved on to the next CC or MR release. This cost the best part of £50 to get both sets on disc and it's an "important" release. This is really the crux of the matter, I think. It's one thing for us to pay more and get less in the objective sense -- but when the quality of the stories also disappoints, it's hurts all the harder for the increased monetary cost. Transitioning to the boxset release model should habe result in Big Finish putting more care and effort into their scripts -- doing fewer releases of higher quality. Seems like we're getting the opposite, instead. I can only I imagine what a "The Last Story" Release might've looked like from the Big Finish of, say, 2010.
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Post by timleschild on Jun 29, 2024 18:25:29 GMT
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Post by 20fridge on Jun 29, 2024 19:45:54 GMT
Well. it came together in the end. Was it great? No. But it wasn't a total mess. Overall, okay. The basic idea is a really really cool one. The execution is fine but it lacks heart(s). The final confrontation between Ace and Seven and Seven feels anticlimactic. The idea of a darker version of Seven vs a version closer to his characterization on television (incredibly silly at times with a bit of a dark streak) was a brilliant concept. Unfortunately, their only scene together feels rushed.
I think this would have been better if the villain subplot was reduced. Sure it shows how much Ace has become like the Seventh Doctor, but that's all it's good for. The only villain who felt essential was the Master. He had some good stuff with Seven. I suppose Mother Finsey was needed to get the Master to where he needed to be for the TV movie (I actually quite liked that bit), but she and the other villains took up way too much air time with their banter. All of the companions had interesting arcs that really showed the core of their characterization and would have benefited from getting more time. Introducing Roz in the second half makes her sacrifice feel less significant. However, I think that was the strongest of the companion sub-plots. Did I enjoy this? Mostly. Would I recommended it? Only to the most devoted Seventh Doctor fans. Definitely not a good jumping on point, but an interesting endpoint.
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Post by elkawho on Jun 30, 2024 14:58:20 GMT
I don't know what else I can add that hasn't already been said. Terrible. I expect a lot more from Big Finish, I really do. Guy Adams and Matt Fitton, what were you thinking? You are both so much better than this.
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