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Post by shallacatop on Aug 17, 2024 20:52:55 GMT
I thought Deathworld was awful. Part 1 was terrible, almost a throwback to The Sirens in Time production wise, but it somehow seemed to get worse as it went on. All the recasts put in poor performances, even the usually reliable Treloar went back to his caricature performance blip from a few years ago. None of their interactions sparked anything close to the joy of what we’d get on screen. It was an uphill battle, as they’re not *the* originals, but this doesn’t even feel like it’s trying. I think they’ve really stretched the limit in how much a release can cope under recasts. The dialogue is exposition heavy or distractingly referential. Lots of a character talking out loud to themselves; a cardinal sin of audio. The sound design left a lot to be desired. A heavy emphasis on echo for no reason or a constant loop of a sound effect. If I’d heard the sounds of walking, eating or drinking once, I’d heard it a hundred times. Put all of it together and such a visual story doesn’t come to life. I just couldn’t picture anything other than the cast in a recording studio together. At times it descends into a laughable fan production and quite comfortably one of the worst things to have come out from Big Finish to my ears. Lacklustre from every aspect of the production. No wonder they released The Life and Death of River Song so quickly after. Give me the televised story and its joy, wit and imagination, even if the budgetary restrictions show, any day. The ironic thing being this story goes to pains to have characters say out loud what they see (in a manner almost exactly how people misconstrue audio drama to be like normally). But nothing they describe is terribly inventive. Indeed. I can’t reconcile any of it as ambitious when it boils down to the original ideas being written into the story as pure exposition, almost prose like and performed as such. The closest they get is the chess game, but that has three notable issues; 1. Death and the President are performing completely differently opposite one another, 2. The segues are completely disparate to the rest of the story, 3. It vanishes by the end of part one.
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Post by shallacatop on Aug 17, 2024 21:06:51 GMT
Only listened to the first ep. The actor playing Death is an all time worst bit of casting. Noonan sounds less like Hartnell than ever. The recasts stand out so much more alongside original actors and when there's 3 of them. First Doctor is a real idiot eh? Knows The Brig has a time device....takes ages to realise he could be from his own future. I love how Noonan effortlessly ranges from creepy to northern to aggressive in the space of one sentence. He’d certainly be an original, er, original Doctor. He’s just not Hartnell and half of his decisions are insulting and derivative of that defining performance, frankly.
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Post by relativetime on Aug 17, 2024 21:30:02 GMT
This was fine. It's enjoyable enough as a big dumb anniversary story anyways, but definitely emphasis on the "big dumb." I'm a lot more forgiving about story when it comes to these kinds of stories honestly because what I'm mostly here is for the fun fanservice. If anything though, I actually wish it had gone further with the fanservice. Bring in as many of Doctors 1-3's companions as you can, have weird cameos here and there from prominent stories of their eras, mix them up intelligently for some interesting interactions, so on.
Obviously none of this was on the table for the original script, but the references to people just offscreen really felt very apparent in places. I was missing Steven, Victoria, Benton and Yates all throughout and, yeah, I know why a lot of them can't actually show up in the story - it just felt like the story was drawing attention to the empty room more than it needed to. In any case, my favorite part of this story was just getting to hear the Brigadier meet the First Doctor - I thought that was a lot of fun and I just wish we could have had more stuff like this. Turn this into more of an original story based on the script for Deathworld instead of constraining yourself like this!
In terms of performances, I thought Michael Troughton and Tim Treloar both were solid. Culshaw was great as always of course. I'll go against the grain though and stand up for Noonan here: I thought he was fine. No, he doesn't sound like Hartnell, but I made peace with that after The Demon Song. Not his best performance - that's still Fugitive of the Daleks for me - but it's far from distractingly awful.
So overall not the best, but fun in a "turn your brain off" sort of way. It's such a shame this didn't come out last year for the actual 60th anniversary - I'd have taken this any day over Once and Future.
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Post by timleschild on Aug 18, 2024 15:39:11 GMT
This is the perfect storm of bad writing & bad acting. The script feels like a pastiche of what naysayers think audio drama is, characters saying out loud what they see. The story is not interesting or excitingly written, just a series of events happening with little tension or dramatic pace. So sadly this leaves us with the performances, Tim Treloar is fine but not up to his usual standard here, understandable given the quality of the script. I've never heard this 2nd doctor before, Michael Troughton gets the intonation right but on occasion sounds more like himself than his father, although it grew on me. It's an award winning performance compared to Noonan. Who on earth is he supposed to be? Why does this interpretation of the first doctor sound like an abrasive northerner? Play this to someone new & I doubt they'd be able to tell you who it was. & why is he so charmless? Just a grumpy, unlikeable person. I guess that's the fault of the writing, what else can Noonan do with the dialogue he’s given. There’s absolutely no chemistry between the three of them. Why the first doctor is partnered with the brigadier rather than one of his own companions is a strange choice. The guest cast are forgettable, but again can't do much with such poor materiel. Some pointless chess scenes in part one, which seem to be a way of saying, hey I’ve watched The Seventh Seal. A final coda that is so cringe.
The acting, the script, the sound design. This all feels like an extremely amateur piece of fan fiction.
THIS SHOULD HAVE STAYED LOST.
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Post by Sir Wearer of Hats on Aug 18, 2024 22:58:57 GMT
The only redeeming feature of “Operation Werewolf” was the “long story with several missing episodes” gag. Sorry.
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Post by tuigirl on Aug 19, 2024 5:38:51 GMT
Well, I am halfway through Deathworld and do not find it that bad. It certainly is no classic (for me) but there are far more dire and average stories out there. Tim Treloar, Jon Culshaw, Frazer Hines and Katy Manning are great and give a good performance. Great to hear them again. I am still not a fan of Michael Troughton, I think that Frazer did a better job with the 2nd Doctor, Michael Troughton just sounds a bit "off" for me. And the 1st Doctor in this story... sorry, I cannot get into this performance at all. As for the story.... so far, it is a bit of a fun run-around and abduction story. Nothing to write home about. But I admit, I also was not the biggest fan of "Light at the End", and right now, halfway through, Deathworld ranks pretty much the same as "Light at the End" for me, as audio multi-Doctor stories go.
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Post by ollychops on Aug 19, 2024 15:55:10 GMT
Quite funny seeing the lukewarm reviews here for Deathworld as elsewhere I've seen glowing reviews - makes me even more eager for me to get around to it to see how I feel about it!
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Post by timleschild on Aug 19, 2024 16:12:03 GMT
Quite funny seeing the lukewarm reviews here for Deathworld as elsewhere I've seen glowing reviews - makes me even more eager for me to get around to it to see how I feel about it! maybe it is from the usual outlets that get freebies from BF?
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Post by Star Platinum on Aug 21, 2024 15:55:13 GMT
I rather enjoyed Deathworld.
It’s not a story that’s going to change the world. Rather it’s a light fluff piece, a what could have been instead of the Three Doctors that was eventually produced.
It’s a terribly visual story, and it would never have happened with the strain the Budget would have placed on the series. Though I could see it as something that would have been a movie treatment for the 10th anniversary.
I prefer the three Doctors, but this is a nice fun story that I won’t mind revisiting again.
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Post by Ian McArdell on Aug 21, 2024 18:03:46 GMT
My take on Deathworld is now up at CultBox - description heavy but I enjoyed the multi-Doctor banter... fascinating, if not essential listening.
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Post by tuigirl on Aug 21, 2024 18:19:54 GMT
Well, I finished it and it was okay. It was fan service. Not much more to it. At least it was not awful or offensive.
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Post by 20fridge on Aug 25, 2024 0:26:55 GMT
I loved Operation Werewolf. It's a solid Second Doctor story. I can see why it couldn't be made for television given its scope and large-ish cast. I'm loving Michel Troughton's interpretation of the Second Doctor. It's nice to see him used in a more standard story, as much as I love Beyond the War Games.
Deathworld is another matter. It was very meh. Some of the concepts were interesting. I loved the interactions between the companions and the Second and Third Doctors. But Noonan's First Doctor, just doesn't do it for me. I miss David Bradley's version. Noonan feels like he's just trying to do a Hartnell impersonation. Sometimes he his that spot-on. Often, he's off enough that it's recognizable but so very distracting. The whole president of the Time Lords playing a game with death was intriguing, but underbaked. Having the Brigadier act as the First Doctor's companion was an odd choice. Why not include a First Doctor companion? Also, I wasn't a fan of the protracted ending. However, I kind of liked the way it connected to The Three Doctors.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2024 1:33:10 GMT
I didn't love Deathworld but though I had issues with the performances...I thought it came together OK. I didn't have an issue with the coda which was a bit of a cheeky wink to canon, more than anything to fret over. Noonan though....Jesus. There's a part where he says "Cup of tea" like he's in Last Of The Summer Wine. What Hartnell is he doing, and who thinks it's good at BF? Same person who thinks Dudman can do Capaldi, I suppose. He just does two things - the giggle and the say a line slowly to seem ominous. It's so repetitive.
One issue hearing a mix of so many recasts AND originals...the voices do jar. You hear a very old Fraser and Katy versus a young Noonan or Treolar and it does take me out of the story more than it should. No easy way around that.
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Post by newt5996 on Aug 26, 2024 15:02:31 GMT
Listened to Deathworld, it was good but nowhere near as good as Operation: Werewolf. I think Noonan is probably the weakest performance, but I hope working with other directors like this will help since it helped Michael Troughton in this and Operation Werewolf. I kind of wish John Dorney would have cut the obvious temptation of explaining where in each Doctor’s timeline the episode takes place and how it can fit into canon, those bits take me out of the story. I do love the insane imagery and a lot of the character beats especially getting Katy Manning and Frazer Hines to play off one another
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Post by timleschild on Aug 26, 2024 15:10:16 GMT
Listened to Deathworld, it was good but nowhere near as good as Operation: Werewolf. I think Noonan is probably the weakest performance, but I hope working with other directors like this will help since it helped Michael Troughton in this and Operation Werewolf. I kind of wish John Dorney would have cut the obvious temptation of explaining where in each Doctor’s timeline the episode takes place and how it can fit into canon, those bits take me out of the story. I do love the insane imagery and a lot of the character beats especially getting Katy Manning and Frazer Hines to play off one another Agree 100%. {Spoiler} & the final coda with it leading into The Three Doctors, kind of negates this as a lost story. A pointless addition.
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revan
New Member
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Post by revan on Aug 28, 2024 12:17:52 GMT
Has anyone had their CD for Deathworld dispatched yet?
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Post by fitzoliverj on Sept 3, 2024 17:36:31 GMT
Has anyone had their CD for Deathworld dispatched yet?
Mine arrives tomorrow.
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Post by cwm on Sept 5, 2024 7:55:26 GMT
Sorry, this is my first substantial exposure to Noonan's First Doctor and he doesn't even sound like he's trying to sound like Hartnell. It's like something out of a John Finnemore sketch.
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lidar2
Castellan
You know, now that you mention it, I actually do rather like Attack of the Cybermen ...
Likes: 6,008
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Post by lidar2 on Sept 12, 2024 7:59:42 GMT
Interesting mixed reviews for this one. Personally, I come down on the side of those who enjoy it. I like the continuity reference and how it was fitted into each Dr's timeline and how the end tied it back into the TV story. [It irks me that the equivalent scene in Dorney's Return of the Cybermen script tying it back into the TV got cut]. I though the performances were all ok.
Admittedly the Bret Vyon line may have been a continuity reference too far & I would have preferred a Roy Purcell soundalike playing the President but, those minor niggles aside, I would recommend it.
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