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Post by christmastrenzalore on May 25, 2024 20:11:40 GMT
God. Damn!!! That was a hell of an episode.
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Post by aussiedoctorwhofan on May 25, 2024 21:24:44 GMT
x.com/bigfinish/status/1794444154182767095Is it too soon to have a boxset of Ruby stories? (sort of like the year Martha was spreading the word of the Doctor.. only.. not that?)
Oh.. Did I hear correctly? The woman say that Mad Jack was "Unbound?"
LOLZ ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/6343532/images/mW7FMmAyG_vqxkNOJyyh.gif)
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Post by timleschild on May 25, 2024 21:35:25 GMT
x.com/bigfinish/status/1794444154182767095Is it too soon to have a boxset of Ruby stories? (sort of like the year Martha was spreading the word of the Doctor.. only.. not that?)
Oh.. Did I hear correctly? The woman say that Mad Jack was "Unbound?"
LOLZ ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/6343532/images/mW7FMmAyG_vqxkNOJyyh.gif) Not too soon. Just unnecessary.
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Post by elkawho on May 25, 2024 21:36:33 GMT
It was good, but I'm in the "not great" camp. It felt hollow to me. Really great packaging but very little substance. NOTHING ends up making any kind of sense. I think I'm on board with Kestrel and charlesuirdhein. Lots if potential but it didn't really go anywhere. (Millie's performance was amazing, though.)
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Kestrel
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Post by Kestrel on May 25, 2024 21:51:14 GMT
It occurs to me that maybe with New nuWho we've got a Spike Milligan problem. If you're familiar with "The Goon Show", it's usually simple to tell which stories were written by Spike on his own, because they don't really have an ending....
Does RTD need a Sykes? Does he need somebody who can take his ideas and corral them into ... I dunno, what would you call it? A story? Maybe we could call it... "script editor", that's a good name. Let's have one of those.
In retrospect, out of the four episodes we've seen so far this season (wild to think we're halfway through. Wild and also depressing) the only one that really managed to stick the landing was 'Boom,' and it was... a very Moffat Ending ending. Meanwhile out of RTD's trio of episodes, the one with the strongest ending was 'Space Babies' ...which went out on a fart joke. So, hrm... yeah, there does seem to be a pattern here. Though I can't say I've really noticed similar issues with RTD's past work. Maybe I'm due for a rewatch, but I certainly don't recall the endings of the last year's specials having any major issues. As best I can recall, 'Wild Blue Yonder,' 'The Giggle' and 'The Church on Ruby Road' all ended fairly well.
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Post by shallacatop on May 25, 2024 22:00:35 GMT
I absolutely loved it. Incredible to think that Millie, just 18-years-old at the time of recording, effortlessly holds your attention throughout the entire episode. Loved the scenes in the pub, the flat and with Kate especially. And I thought the subtext about Gwilliam being a monster were very well done within the guidelines of the show. The closing scene with the Doctor back really nailed what I love about this duo and their sense of fun.
It’s been interesting reading the varied thoughts on this thread; just one of the many wonderful things about the show is the variety of output and therefore people’s opinions. I understand the viewpoint that it’s too ambiguous, didn’t stick the landing or not showing what the older Ruby was saying to people. For me, it didn’t really matter, the ambiguity works for me in a David Lynch-esque way and I think it’s less what is said and more how she’s making people feel that makes it effective. I’d be surprised if it was the last we hear of this; it might make it more satisfying to some at a later date and less so for those that liked the mystery.
Only slight criticisms were that I don’t think they aged Ruby up brilliantly and then went to the complete opposite for the last few minutes. Guessing it may have been something they tried and felt it was worse off. And I’m not sure the episode really justified not using the opening titles; they should’ve just played them at the very beginning and not had a pre-titles.
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Post by Alastair on May 25, 2024 22:11:41 GMT
I found this absolutely gripping. A huge testament to both Gibson and Davies that I didn’t miss Gatwa’s magnetic performance, i.e. the new show’s single biggest selling point.
I’d normally feel annoyed at the resolution, but RTD has a knack for hitting satisfying emotional truths even when the logic doesn’t hold up in that Moffatty clockwork way. Obviously this is a more egregious and divisive example, but in this instance it worked for me.
I get the sense that something was accomplished in a fluid, magical realm rather than a timey wimey one. That some aspect of Ruby’s victory stuck even when the rest of the timeline didn’t. That whatever just happened followed a set of rules I wasn’t meant to understand. This is what the emotional language of the episode tells me, and I’m happy to go along with that.
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Kestrel
Chancellery Guard
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Post by Kestrel on May 25, 2024 23:07:31 GMT
I guess it's not enough to warrant talking about, but I feel like pointing out that Ruby's question to the hiker lady (Susan Twist) is every-so-slightly moving the season-arc along. Feels like RTD gently reminding the audience to pay attention. I wonder how it'll turn out, given RTD's past story arcs weren't exactly great... but I must admit, I'm curious. And speaking of recurring elements that may-or-may-not hint at the finale, did anyone catch any fourth wall breaks in this one? I don't remember any. Though I suppose this story could still produce some, if either Ruby or the Doctor wind up referencing anything that happened here in a future episode. For me, it didn’t really matter, the ambiguity works for me in a David Lynch-esque way and I think it’s less what is said and more how she’s making people feel that makes it effective. I’d be surprised if it was the last we hear of this; it might make it more satisfying to some at a later date and less so for those that liked the mystery. I think the ambiguity certainly could have been very effective. The main issue with the episode, I think, is that it's not willing to go all-in on the ambiguity, and it's not willing to even hint at answers, so overall it's kind of noncommital. Like... I think the episode might've worked a lot better if, for example, we never learned the identity of the watcher -- instead, when Ruby dies, the transition to the scene of her and the Doctor exiting the TARDIS again makes it clear that this version of (young) Ruby somehow remembers the life she lived, and stops the Doctor. I think just that one, small change would've probably been enough to make me like the episode a lot more -- it just had to commit, fully, to the ambiguity. Though in that case, I'd probably also like to see Ruby recognize the evil PM's name in the opening scene, just to sort of imply that it's a closed time loop, with her memories fading shortly thereafter just as they do in the episode we all watched. I was actually kind of at the edge of my seat, metaphorically speaking, wondering how bad the "old-age makeup" was going to be on her. That stuff never looks good! Even the more modern, fully CGI versions still look deeply uncanny. I thought the longer haircut after the first time-jump was very effective at subtly indicating the passage of time, but yeah, she wasn't exactly super convincing as a 40-ish year old woman. But, I can tell ya', I breathed an audible sigh of relief (still solidly within metaphor here) when they swapped her out with an older actress for the last bit. I do wonder if they actually tried to go with a special effect for Ruby in the first place, though. After all, they still went with the not-very-good CGI talking effects for the titular babies in the season opener. Hard to imagine an "Aged Up" effect looking much worse.
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Post by christmastrenzalore on May 26, 2024 0:29:55 GMT
I will say that after Ruby's own mother disowned her, I did make a mental note of "yeah, none of this is gonna stick". But I think it's a testament to how well done it all is that I still enjoyed it so much regardless,
Even if it doesn't come up ever again, it still shows 'us' what kind of mettle Ruby has, even under such dire circumstances. I actually think that's what makes the UNIT scene important. To show that she truely is on her own for this one.
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2024 1:37:15 GMT
I'd also say I think this should put any "she's just Rose 2.0" crap to bed. Ruby got on with it. She was baffled but didn't panic, didn't break and came up with her own ideas never feeling sorry for herself. I can't imagine Rose doing what Ruby does here. Closest in the new series would be Clara, maybe, but Ruby is a warmer character (and I like Clara) who just gets on with things and shows true resilience.
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Post by bethhigdon on May 26, 2024 2:23:20 GMT
I kind of get both mindsets here...
On the one hand, it doesn't makes sense for Old Ruby to have the effect on people that she does and it doesn't make sense to erase the time-loop because now who is going to stop the mad man from starting world war three?
But on the other hand, it's so effectively shot and beautifully preformed and the scenes with Older Ruby give the story an emotional catharsis that satisfies even if it inherently doesn't have any logic to it.
I guess I'm just hoping whatever mystery they got going on here with Ruby will better explain why everyone abandoned Young Ruby when meeting Old Ruby.
Oh and we got Dodo/Mrs Flood again! Yay!
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2024 3:03:53 GMT
OR, did the madman only rise to power in a reality where there was no Doctor, or where fairy magic manipulated events due to the desecration of the grounds? The Doctor remembers that happening but maybe the closed timeloop version we see at the end would not. That's why the ambiguity works so well here.
So much of folk horror is meant to be interpretive and not explained too much. Clues are dropped but clear answers are often avoided. I think this ep shows RTD knows the genre as well as his friend Mark Gatiss, who popularised the term "folk horror" in the first place.
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Post by Alastair on May 26, 2024 4:23:57 GMT
For me, it didn’t really matter, the ambiguity works for me in a David Lynch-esque way Nail on the head here. With Lynch you get the sense that the story absolutely follows a set of rules, albeit rules only known to one person, and that this is somehow subtly discernible to the viewer from “weird for weird’s sake”. This isn’t Twin Peaks finale level abstraction, and I don’t know that RTD himself necessarily has some airtight secret explanation, but I’m left with the same impression here: a feeling that rings true.
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Post by shallacatop on May 26, 2024 10:02:26 GMT
Fourteen’s got a lot to answer for, hasn’t he? Sat in his garden chilling and coming to terms with himself whilst he’s unleashed the fantastical upon the universe by pouring some bloody salt on the floor; he should be up for war crimes!
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Post by fitzoliverj on May 26, 2024 10:20:48 GMT
Fourteen’s got a lot to answer for, hasn’t he? Sat in his garden chilling and coming to terms with himself whilst he’s unleashed the fantastical upon the universe by pouring some bloody salt on the floor; he should be up for war crimes! Yeah, UNIT could've at least asked to borrow his TARDIS key. On the other hand, Ruby has just made it far more likely that the world be destroyed in a firey inferno, so he's probably finding it hard enough to relax at the moment as it is.
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Post by timleschild on May 26, 2024 12:11:46 GMT
Fourteen’s got a lot to answer for, hasn’t he? Sat in his garden chilling and coming to terms with himself whilst he’s unleashed the fantastical upon the universe by pouring some bloody salt on the floor; he should be up for war crimes! Funny but true. & if as it would appear Rose is working for UNIT why did they not ask him for help? Or did they & he said no?
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Post by Alastair on May 26, 2024 12:50:50 GMT
All the more wonderfully absurd to realise there are TWO retired Doctors laying low in contemporary London, both of whom Kate is aware of but polite enough not to bother.
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2024 14:40:54 GMT
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Post by daz on May 27, 2024 10:02:26 GMT
Yeah! A nice scary and interesting episode, really showcased MG's talents.
I suppose I worked out who the old lady must be fairly early in the piece. Anyone deciphered her hand gestures?
I found the final scene between old Ruby and the other one quite an odd choice and it was strange to not show the face.
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Post by daz on May 27, 2024 10:11:53 GMT
Yeah! A nice scary and interesting episode, really showcased MG's talents. I suppose I worked out who the old lady must be fairly early in the piece. Anyone deciphered her hand gestures? I found the final scene between old Ruby and the other one quite an odd choice and it was strange to not show the face. Hang about, what was the deal with the hand gestures? Has anyone interpreted them? Why is she doing them?
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