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Post by mark687 on Jun 29, 2024 19:51:01 GMT
So what does constantly coitizing the same thing do for the criticizer? Regards mark687 coitizing? Criticizing! Regards mark687
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Post by timleschild on Jun 29, 2024 20:00:23 GMT
Criticizing! Regards mark687 OK. This thread seems to be drifting further from its premise, first its What do you want from Doctor Who, then its What do you want from Doctor Who and Fan Discourse now you seem to want to understand why fans criticize?
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Post by mark687 on Jun 29, 2024 20:10:14 GMT
Criticizing! Regards mark687 OK. This thread seems to be drifting further from its premise, first its What do you want from Doctor Who, then its What do you want from Doctor Who and Fan Discourse now you seem to want to understand why fans criticize? Yes I do You in particular what do you get out of It? Regards mark687
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Post by timleschild on Jun 29, 2024 20:28:02 GMT
OK. This thread seems to be drifting further from its premise, first its What do you want from Doctor Who, then its What do you want from Doctor Who and Fan Discourse now you seem to want to understand why fans criticize? Yes I do You in particular what do you get out of It? Regards mark687 Ah so this is all about me mark687? What a weird way to go about it. You should have been more honest about the subject of this thread from the start.
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Post by relativetime on Jun 30, 2024 2:43:06 GMT
I want Doctor Who to be full of new voices and fun and interesting and heartfelt. I think Series 14 - minor faults aside - was almost all of those things and I've always liked the energy that RTD brings as a showrunner. It's nice to also see him trying to push for good queer representation, even if it's sometimes not perfect - it means a lot to me at least that he's made Rose a recurring character.
However the fact that besides one episode it was all RTD and Moffat is extremely disappointing. The show feels too familiar, veering dangerously close to "remix" at times. That's disappointing to me and I want better. Say what you will about Chibnall, at least his seasons had a different feel to them. Heck, maybe that's why they're so disliked. I think even just replacing Murray Gold again or at the very very least editing the show's music a little different might make a huge difference too. The music this past season has been incredibly distracting and waaaay too overpowering.
In terms of what I want from fan discourse, I want people to move on already. I'm absolutely tired of seeing the same cycle repeat itself of clearly bad faith hate mobs rising up to harass the current showrunner and anyone who likes them for "ruining" Doctor Who by making it "woke". The people spouting that nonsense aren't here for honest debates amongst fans, they're here to stir the pot and get everyone else upset. Honestly, can we just ignore these people just for once? Please? Don't give them the platform to spew that nonsense - just block and move on!
I'm also kind of sick of the "bad writing" complaint, which I know I've mentioned a few times on here before but I'm gonna say it again. To believe fan discourse, the show's writing has been bad ever since Tennant left the first time. It's just shorthand for "things I don't like" at this point and I've seen it used way too often by bigots to ever take it seriously.
Oh and can we ALSO stop talking about the stupid overnight viewing figures like we're still in the 2000s and 2010s and taking any dip in viewers as a sign that the show is about to be cancelled? I know some of us here are fans of numbers and like just seeing that kind of stuff, which is totally fine! But the doomposting around all that stuff specifically is very, very tiring.
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Post by bethhigdon on Jun 30, 2024 3:03:15 GMT
I want Doctor Who to be full of new voices and fun and interesting and heartfelt. I think Series 14 - minor faults aside - was almost all of those things and I've always liked the energy that RTD brings as a showrunner. It's nice to also see him trying to push for good queer representation, even if it's sometimes not perfect - it means a lot to me at least that he's made Rose a recurring character. However the fact that besides one episode it was all RTD and Moffat is extremely disappointing. The show feels too familiar, veering dangerously close to "remix" at times. That's disappointing to me and I want better. Say what you will about Chibnall, at least his seasons had a different feel to them. Heck, maybe that's why they're so disliked. I think even just replacing Murray Gold again or at the very very least editing the show's music a little different might make a huge difference too. The music this past season has been incredibly distracting and waaaay too overpowering. Agree, new and diverse voices are needed.
One of things I'll give Chibnall credit for is he did put forth an effort to bring in new talent... until Covid hit anyways.
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Kestrel
Chancellery Guard
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Post by Kestrel on Jun 30, 2024 3:05:32 GMT
What do I want from the show? Same thing I want from any narrative media: compelling characters, compelling dialog, and engaging plots. More specifically, I like "big-idea sci-fi" and would like to see much more of it in Doctor Who, as opposed to the usual, tedious, monster-of-the-week diversions. And maybe RTD can stop trying to so overtly push for that UNIT spin-off and focus more on building up a new team of younger writers who'll be able to take over the show when he leaves. Nothing will be accomplished if his tenure consists mostly of scripts written by old-hands like himself, or Moffat.
From the fan discourse? I dunno. Could we maybe take everything a little less seriously? Or, barring that, at least find some way to blast the bigoted fans directly into the sun? That'd be nice.
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Post by relativetime on Jun 30, 2024 3:11:04 GMT
I want Doctor Who to be full of new voices and fun and interesting and heartfelt. I think Series 14 - minor faults aside - was almost all of those things and I've always liked the energy that RTD brings as a showrunner. It's nice to also see him trying to push for good queer representation, even if it's sometimes not perfect - it means a lot to me at least that he's made Rose a recurring character. However the fact that besides one episode it was all RTD and Moffat is extremely disappointing. The show feels too familiar, veering dangerously close to "remix" at times. That's disappointing to me and I want better. Say what you will about Chibnall, at least his seasons had a different feel to them. Heck, maybe that's why they're so disliked. I think even just replacing Murray Gold again or at the very very least editing the show's music a little different might make a huge difference too. The music this past season has been incredibly distracting and waaaay too overpowering. Agree, new and diverse voices are needed.
One of things I'll give Chibnall credit for is he did put forth an effort to bring in new talent... until Covid hit anyways.
And some of the best new talent the show's had too! Maxine Alderton and Vinay Patel especially both wrote or co-wrote some of the best stories we've had since the show came back in 2005 in my opinion!
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2024 6:30:45 GMT
Criticizing! Regards mark687 OK. This thread seems to be drifting further from its premise, first its What do you want from Doctor Who, then its What do you want from Doctor Who and Fan Discourse now you seem to want to understand why fans criticize? I defended you when I joined as I saw a lot of people against you. In fact pretty much everyone who responded to you at all. I didn't see why there was an issue and I said so. I was told "just wait", he's had various accounts, he'll show hos colours..after just weeks it's so easy to see why you have just no friends, at all, here. And it's this passive aggressive BS. You KNOW Mark687 he meant criticising but thought you'd act the smart arse. If the thread was just to pick on you? Sure, it's not a nice move but everyone else seems to have taken it on face value. You are consistently just putting in jabs and snide comments about production teams and cast on TV and audio knowing that those are not something the admins seem to care about. As long as you don't swear or outright abuse, it seems your death by a thousand cuts moaning crap is fine with the absent admins. While I don't even see you talk about Big Finish, just piggyback on the issues of actual listeners. Did you get banned from other forums and have to come here since the TV focused ones caught you out? Or were you not big enough a troll for Gallifrey Base? You're just here for hateful reasons. If you had any decency as a human you'd reflect on that. But you won't. Trolls never do. You'll no do the classic your kind do of "report me, this is bullying" et cetera, no doubt. But think on it. You could have friends here. You choose to have people think you're a miserable person. So maybe seek help as- and this isn't this thread, it's months of observed post, and seemingly years for others - you're doing this to yourself. Choosing to be the pariah. What healthy person does that?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2024 6:46:36 GMT
For the fan discourse part, some more thought would be nice. The Disney deal needed someone with a hit record. They don't care about fan-opinion - they wanted a Feige. Someone who knows the stuff AND the public. Russell is - literally - the only person ever who has made Who the most watched show in the UK. Subjective opinions are great but just "write better" doesn't add much to discourse. An understanding of why things happen first helps. No newbie coming in would have gotten so many wheels moving as fast as Russell, whose name opens doors. If you read his production diary in DWM he HAD to do a lot more of the 60th and the first season than he wanted as there simply wasn't time for the usual approach, even compared to 2003 when he last started on Who. To get the show back for the anniversary AND on Disney? This was it. The BBC also said they couldn't afford the scope of Who getting larger without investment. So...no real option here. The alternative would be no 60th, and no series this soon.
Maybe for some that would be better. Yet there is no reason on Earth to think that the alternative would be better. A BBC-only production, with a new head writer. Who? Their era would always be better in your mind because you're seeing the best of it in the imagination. Like Douglas Adams - everyone loves City Of Death, but most of his tenure as script editor is tosh (not Donald..) and it'd be a certain radio show turned novel, TV show, film, stage play that showed his real talents. Or Moffat. In 2008 you could buy "In Moffat I Trust" t-shirts he was so beloved from Blink, the Library, Doctor Dances, Girl In The Fireplace. It was an impossibly popular appointment when he got the job. Cut to not too long into his tenure and "Moffat must go" starts. Chibnall was coming off Broadchurch and everyone assumed would bring the beloved serialsed nature of that with him. Not even slightly. His era lost more viewers percentage wise than any. So I'd just ask people to remember this fictional version you'd rather see? You're not seeing the Orphan 55, the Space Babies or the Danny Pink crap or Nightmare In Eden when imagining it. But every head honcho would have those slumps. Every one.
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Post by timleschild on Jun 30, 2024 9:31:58 GMT
OK. This thread seems to be drifting further from its premise, first its What do you want from Doctor Who, then its What do you want from Doctor Who and Fan Discourse now you seem to want to understand why fans criticize? I defended you when I joined as I saw a lot of people against you. In fact pretty much everyone who responded to you at all. I didn't see why there was an issue and I said so. I was told "just wait", he's had various accounts, he'll show hos colours..after just weeks it's so easy to see why you have just no friends, at all, here. And it's this passive aggressive BS. You KNOW Mark687 he meant criticising but thought you'd act the smart arse. If the thread was just to pick on you? Sure, it's not a nice move but everyone else seems to have taken it on face value. You are consistently just putting in jabs and snide comments about production teams and cast on TV and audio knowing that those are not something the admins seem to care about. As long as you don't swear or outright abuse, it seems your death by a thousand cuts moaning crap is fine with the absent admins. While I don't even see you talk about Big Finish, just piggyback on the issues of actual listeners. Did you get banned from other forums and have to come here since the TV focused ones caught you out? Or were you not big enough a troll for Gallifrey Base? You're just here for hateful reasons. If you had any decency as a human you'd reflect on that. But you won't. Trolls never do. You'll no do the classic your kind do of "report me, this is bullying" et cetera, no doubt. But think on it. You could have friends here. You choose to have people think you're a miserable person. So maybe seek help as- and this isn't this thread, it's months of observed post, and seemingly years for others - you're doing this to yourself. Choosing to be the pariah. What healthy person does that? I took this thread on face value, in fact I think its a good idea for a thread, until mark changed it then called me out on why I criticise. I am not just here for hateful reasons. Don't make judgments me claiming I am not a decent human. I am not a troll. I am not choosing to be a pariah. I am not choosing to have people think I'm a miserable person. My classic report me response. Well of course? What else can I say when you make personal attacks on my character. Just ignore as I have said, why is that so difficult. Engage with who you want to on here. PS - I have NOT had various accounts. This has been investigated. So you are believing nothing but rumour. Believe what you want to believe about that but don't start all those accusations up again publicly. Thank you for your concern but I do not need to "seek help".
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Post by timleschild on Jun 30, 2024 9:32:49 GMT
Agree, new and diverse voices are needed.
One of things I'll give Chibnall credit for is he did put forth an effort to bring in new talent... until Covid hit anyways.
And some of the best new talent the show's had too! Maxine Alderton and Vinay Patel especially both wrote or co-wrote some of the best stories we've had since the show came back in 2005 in my opinion! Yes this is what we need. The Chibnall era overall had more diversity from the writing team. Sadly now its the RTD ego show.
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Kestrel
Chancellery Guard
Likes: 2,693
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Post by Kestrel on Jun 30, 2024 22:59:05 GMT
Speaking more locally, it sure would be nice to see less personal antagonism in such a small community as ours, here. I've weighed in on this specific issue before, as some of you may recall: my stance has not changed since then. EDIT: some (possibly unnecessary) elaboration: We all have the capacity -- and the responsibility -- to choose what we do and do not engage with. There are hundreds of threads here with review polls, very few of which indicate anything close to a unanimous consensus: every story has its fans and its detractors. If you don't like someone's opinion, or how it is expressed, you can just keep on scrolling. Not everything has to be defended or dissected or made into fodder for tedious internet arguments. There is not one user here whom I've found myself constantly disagreeing with; nor any one user with whom I am always in agreement (though one comes very close, I'll refrain from tagging them as I assume they would not enjoy wading through this thread, but if you see this, yes, I'm talking about you ). A small community like this one simply cannot survive petty personal feuds. Full-stop. There simply aren't enough of us here. What do I want from fan discourse? I want us all to be able to act like adults, cognizant of the fact that even if we may not all be friends, we are at least all peers, and willing to treat each other with respect. That is, I think the bare minimum.
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