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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2016 5:26:45 GMT
Hey everyone,
Much has been made about the Trial format and it's appropiateness at it's point in time. What would, if anything, have done differently?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2016 6:35:44 GMT
Good to see you starting some debate. I liked the whole idea, and the opening sequence blew me away, but the realisation was lacking. too many people atanding around a brightly lit room in silly costumes watching Doctor who and criticising it isn't great TV unfortunately. maybe the framing device should have been limited to the beginning and end of each story, or each episode.
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Post by paulmorris7777 on Jan 27, 2016 12:52:58 GMT
There are some good points, and some bad points in Trial. Wasn't too keen on the vervoid episode! I really enjoy The Valeyard. Shame he didn't return with McCoy!
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Post by constonks on Jan 27, 2016 13:30:04 GMT
I see why people (like our new showrunner, haha) say Vervoids is formulaic, but there are things like Colin's opening murder mystery narration and the smash cut to the Doctor grinning like a madman and holding an axe. Considering it was all thrown together pretty late in production, it holds up alright IMO.
Because ultimately, Trial is one of those Doctor Who stories which, while flawed, has enough strengths to make it through to its conclusion while still being entertaining... until its conclusion.
I think The Ultimate Foe is what ruins Trial of a Time Lord. It replays the Matrix scenes The Deadly Assassin without the same level of charm, fails to give a good explanation on what exactly the Valeyard is (and the fact that he's a Dark Doctor is more like trivia than an actual plot point), involves the Master for no discernible reason... Of course, the 13-14 slot also suffered last-minute setbacks, but I think you could still write cheap, easy-to-shoot Doctor Who better than TUF.
For instance, the Valeyard's identity revelation shouldn't come via the Master, but rather should be the big reveal at the end of the whole story. Basically...
- The Doctor is tried for genocide, but breaks away from the Time Lords and manages to smash their control from the TARDIS. He dematerialises and the Valeyard, Inquisitor and a couple of Chancellory Guards follow him in an invisible TARDIS. - The Doctor arrives in Pease Pottage, and meets Mel for the first time. They have a two-part adventure that is cut short somewhere around the ten-minute mark of episode two, when the Time Lords show up and take care of the villain of the piece (perhaps that could be the Master, if Ainley is so keen to show up). - Mel helps the Doctor escape and is placed under arrest by the Time Lords, but refuses to tell them anything. Through dialogue with the Time Lords, Mel reasons that the Valeyard is clearly taking this very personally. She baits them by asking if they really know anything about the court prosecutor and why he hates the Doctor so much. The Inquisitor is clearly curious, and begins to set a course on her TARDIS console. - The Valeyard finds the Doctor and corners him with a weapon that will succeed in stealing his regenerations. They have a conversation about why. The Doctor says that it is nobler to die with dignity than ruin others' lives to maintain your own - just look at the Master! The Valeyard counters that he's not ruining another life - he IS the Doctor, from the future. He then gives a hearty exposition on who he is - One day, trying to live forever, the Thirteenth Doctor will believe the only way to prolong his life is to purge all of his dark impulses before attempting an illegal thirteenth regeneration. The regeneration will fail and the Doctor will die, but the Valeyard will be born. The Valeyard laughs at the Doctor's morals and how twisted they will become... or would have become, had he not intervened. - The Inquisitor, Mel and the Chancellory Guard appear from the invisible TARDIS - they have been watching the whole proceedings. The Valeyard is pleased to see them until they arrest him. He fires at the Doctor anyway, but the Inquisitor blocks the blast. She survives, but her regenerations have been stolen. The Valeyard is imbued with new regenerations, but is sentenced to temporal dispersal for what he has done. He swears he will survive and terrorise the Doctor further. The Inquisitor claims she has seen the Doctor's handiwork - he will need his regenerations more than she will need hers - and tells Mel she is free to go... wherever she wishes. - The episode ends with the Doctor allowing Mel into the TARDIS and asking her where she'd like to go. She fires off about four or five different places and he sets the coordinates for all five, pressing the button and seeing where they end up. "Here we go, Melanie Bush! Once more unto the breach!"
End season.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2016 16:58:29 GMT
There are some good points, and some bad points in Trial. Wasn't too keen on the vervoid episode! I really enjoy The Valeyard. Shame he didn't return with McCoy! I quite liked vervoids. I hated the one with Sil, and the thing that really bugged me was the constant cutting back and forth. It was very hard to immerse in the story when it kept getting interrupted, especially the first story where bits of the story were edited out as bein sub judice, or whatever the phrase is.
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Post by Ela on Jan 27, 2016 17:17:15 GMT
I liked the Vervoids, too. I don't like Sil much as a character, but the story in of itself wasn't that bad.
There are definitely parts of Trial of a Time Lord that I like very much.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2016 8:32:25 GMT
I'd have liked to see Robert Holmes's original concept for the opening to the trial realised; the Valeyard reveals to the Doctor why exactly he's on the station at the end of Part One rather than right at the start. The trial scenes themselves really start to drag after The Mysterious Planet and echo the TARDIS scenes used as padding for Season 22, so a bit more progression in the present would have helped to boost the season as a whole. There were a lot of unanswered questions like who the Sleepers from Andromeda were, what exactly happened on Thoros Beta, how did the Valeyard come to be the prosecution at the Doctor's trial? All that and the rather up in the air nature of the ending. I can't help but feel that having the Doctor leave in the political turmoil with Melanie with the Master assuming the Lord Presidency of Gallifrey would have opened up all kinds of doors for the future, whether Colin was returning to the role or not. I'd also have had a short scene with him returning Mel to his future self in the TARDIS before returning to other adventures, then having the Keeper (who is in reality, the Valeyard) on a scanner screen watching him depart.
Alternatively...
I remember reading a Doctor Who calender with brief and often inaccurate sidebars recounting key stories of the era when I was a kid, my first impression of Trial of a Time Lord without any sort of context was that it all took place on Gallifrey and in the present tense, so each photograph I saw had a completely different meaning from what actually happened. In one picture, the Doctor is rescued from his stoning by the Shobogans for attempting to steal their water by the Chancellery Guard. In another, Peri hides out with alien fugitives Yrcarnos and Dorf in the catacombs beneath the Capitol (where the Master did his scheming in The Deadly Assassin). The midsection of the story was all about trying to bring the Time Lord back to his trial after he somehow escaped from it and I thought Peri was captured and had her mind erased as punishment for the Doctor's refusal to kowtow to their wishes. Keeping all of that in mind, it would have been interesting to see a twelve part story set almost entirely on Gallifrey while they attempt to deal with a series of unexpected alien incursions, people who keep happening upon the location of their world because something is drawing them there.
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