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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2016 1:23:12 GMT
Hey everyone,
Does anyone else find it odd that The Doctor and Vastra are friends? Vastra after all isn't afraid to eat many an undesirable human and even post-Time War, I can't really see The Doctor approving.
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Post by icecreamdf on Feb 6, 2016 2:13:40 GMT
Lots of his friends do things he doesn't approve of. The Brigadier shoots bad guys and blows them up, River's a psycopath, etc. Vastra probably just doesn't talk about eating people in front of the Doctor, and he probably gets mad at her when she kills people.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2016 2:24:57 GMT
Lots of his friends do things he doesn't approve of. The Brigadier shoots bad guys and blows them up, River's a psycopath, etc. Vastra probably just doesn't talk about eating people in front of the Doctor, and he probably gets mad at her when she kills people. The Brigader has the defense of protecting his world, though and tempered his approach overtime and that's when they started to become friends. (Yes, The Silurians is the biggest blip on that.) It's a wartime environment - it's not something The Doctor of old neccessairly likes, but understands. The same can be said of Vastra, but it's something she's seen she actively enjoys doing which to me is a big difference and given that Jenny is open about it in conversation when talking about it to Clara, it seems to me that he does know. As much as I love River, Moffatt dropped the ball on The Doctor's charcisation big time in The Day of The Moon.
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Post by icecreamdf on Feb 6, 2016 3:12:32 GMT
Vastra only eats people who she feels deserves it though. I'm sure the Doctor doesn't approve, but Vastra has enough redeeming qualities that he is willing to overlook the way she treats bad guys. Besides, he has spent so long trying in vain to get humans and silurians to share the planet in peace that he is probably just glad that Vastra is willing to live in peace with most humans.
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Post by seeley on Feb 6, 2016 3:13:28 GMT
What of Leela? She rather seems to enjoy slaughter.
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Post by icecreamdf on Feb 6, 2016 3:23:46 GMT
What of Leela? She rather seems to enjoy slaughter. Not to mention his unusual relationship with Missy. At least, he taught Leela not to kill.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2016 4:29:27 GMT
As much as I love River, Moffatt dropped the ball on The Doctor's charcisation big time in The Day of The Moon. Oooh, yeah... Even the ending to Attack of the Cybermen didn't go that far. The Doctor and Vastra's friendship is an odd one because we never see what initially brought them together and made that relationship last. Sure we hear about how she was killing workers in the London Underground and the Doctor stopped her, but there must have been far more to it in order for the two of them to be on speaking terms. The best rationalisation that I can think of is that the Eleventh Doctor while desperate to belong anywhere that will have him, he still acknowledges that people aren't perfect. It's probably something that should have been written into those stories though, it'd been interesting and perfectly in keeping to the Doctor's character if he kept trying to wean her off her sadistic tendencies. Actually... Considering we know almost nothing about Vastra's past before she and her brood (who are most likely all dead following the Underground affair, judging from the fact we never see them) were revived from the shelter, does anyone think that she might've been a hunter, tracker or trapper during the prehistoric period? It'd fit with her decision to become one of England's many private detectives and square away her behaviour without making her seem indiscriminately malicious.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2016 8:17:47 GMT
I like to think she's "the one he managed to save". His history with Silurians is one of them getting blown up and killed by humans, so if this was the one case where he managed to make peace then I think he'd overlook her flaws because he's desperate to prove what he's been trying to say since his third incarnation, that the two species should live together in peace.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2016 9:07:36 GMT
Fortunately, that's a story with a happy ending. By the twenty-sixth century, the Silurians have been integrated into Earth society as official citizens with initial attempts at détente implied to have originated from the Triad shelter way up in Smallmarshes that the Doctor uncovered and the Brigadier elected to keep intact. In fact, that event was most likely what lead to several members of their species joining UNIT operations in the twenty-first century. It took six-hundred years, but eventually humanity and its prehistoric cousins reconciled their differences.
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Post by dalekbuster523finish on Feb 6, 2016 11:00:33 GMT
I like to think it was the 3rd Doctor who first met Madam Vastra and became friends with her.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2016 11:24:32 GMT
I like to think it was the 3rd Doctor who first met Madam Vastra and became friends with her. The 2010 Big Book of Doctor Who has it as The Fourth Doctor. Nice idea, though
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Post by dalekbuster523finish on Feb 6, 2016 12:04:41 GMT
I like to think it was the 3rd Doctor who first met Madam Vastra and became friends with her. The 2010 Big Book of Doctor Who has it as The Fourth Doctor. Nice idea, though Thanks. I forgot the Big Book did it. Maybe it got the Doctor wrong?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2016 12:15:27 GMT
The 2010 Big Book of Doctor Who has it as The Fourth Doctor. Nice idea, though Thanks. I forgot the Big Book did it. Maybe it got the Doctor wrong? Maybe
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Post by constonks on Feb 6, 2016 15:14:22 GMT
I actually always imagined a fed-up early Time War Eighth Doctor raging against Vastra and the Underground tunnel workers to stop fighting.
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Post by icecreamdf on Feb 6, 2016 16:58:17 GMT
I always assumed that the Eleventh Doctor was the first to meet her, since he implied that The Hungry Earth was the first time he met the new Silurian design. Also, has anyone ever wondered where the other Silurians in A Good Man Goes to War came from?
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Post by dalekbuster523finish on Feb 6, 2016 17:51:07 GMT
I always assumed that the Eleventh Doctor was the first to meet her, since he implied that The Hungry Earth was the first time he met the new Silurian design. Also, has anyone ever wondered where the other Silurians in A Good Man Goes to War came from? The 11th Doctor was also prone to forgetting early adventures in his life, such as his encounters with the Great Intelligence.
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Post by seeley on Feb 6, 2016 19:40:29 GMT
I always assumed that the Eleventh Doctor was the first to meet her, since he implied that The Hungry Earth was the first time he met the new Silurian design. Also, has anyone ever wondered where the other Silurians in A Good Man Goes to War came from? If I recall correctly, during the bit where the Doctor goes "Oi, I think I know what these guys are!" the Silurians are all wearing masks.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2016 1:28:37 GMT
I always assumed that the Eleventh Doctor was the first to meet her, since he implied that The Hungry Earth was the first time he met the new Silurian design. Also, has anyone ever wondered where the other Silurians in A Good Man Goes to War came from? I'd completely forgotten about their appearance, they might be the survivors from the shelter who are never mentioned. It's a bit clumsy to be honest, I think they were there exclusively for the Rule of Cool rather than anything practical. I always assumed that the Eleventh Doctor was the first to meet her, since he implied that The Hungry Earth was the first time he met the new Silurian design. Also, has anyone ever wondered where the other Silurians in A Good Man Goes to War came from? If I recall correctly, during the bit where the Doctor goes "Oi, I think I know what these guys are!" the Silurians are all wearing masks. That certainly implies some kind of recent encounter outside of what we saw in "The Hungry Earth". Either that or Eleven put two and two together with the technology. I was kind of disappointed actually because the ground swallowing them up made me think that the Tractators had gotten to Earth.
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Post by seeley on Feb 7, 2016 3:08:52 GMT
I always assumed that the Eleventh Doctor was the first to meet her, since he implied that The Hungry Earth was the first time he met the new Silurian design. Also, has anyone ever wondered where the other Silurians in A Good Man Goes to War came from? I'd completely forgotten about their appearance, they might be the survivors from the shelter who are never mentioned. It's a bit clumsy to be honest, I think they were there exclusively for the Rule of Cool rather than anything practical. And let's not forget about the ones at the Pandorica. Moffat is particularly keen on the use of narrative hyperbole, which conjures up deliberately exaggerated scenarios for the sake of tension or drama. I think Moffat knew full well that the Draconians and Silurians weren't adversaries of the Doctor, in the same way he knew that namechecking the Drahvins was funny. He invokes a particular kind of suspension of disbelief, which is fully consistent with the story/fairy-tale motif of Series 5.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2016 3:20:38 GMT
I'd completely forgotten about their appearance, they might be the survivors from the shelter who are never mentioned. It's a bit clumsy to be honest, I think they were there exclusively for the Rule of Cool rather than anything practical. And let's not forget about the ones at the Pandorica. Moffat is particularly keen on the use of narrative hyperbole, which conjures up deliberately exaggerated scenarios for the sake of tension or drama. I think Moffat knew full well that the Draconians and Silurians weren't adversaries of the Doctor, in the same way he knew that namechecking the Drahvins was funny. He invokes a particular kind of suspension of disbelief, which is fully consistent with the story/fairy-tale motif of Series 5. It was a whole season that shirked the science fiction elements in favour of going for straight fantasy, the only story that strikes me as something that couldn't have been told without sci-fi trappings is his take on Earthshock: "The Time of the Angels". Having read the script for The Magician's Apprentice, he seems to construct and write his stories with a lot of exclamation marks and onomatopoeia. I honestly think that it'd be a match made in heaven if he went from television into graphic novels because his writing style seems ideal for it. There is a point though where invoking the names of the big monsters every two or three episodes rapidly starts to loose its mystique. The appearance of a Cyberman amongst others in Face the Raven for example was just pandering and nonsensical. The suspension begins to frack and rupture.
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