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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2019 11:07:40 GMT
From the Livestream Day 2 Greatest show in the Galaxy will get a Prequel AND a Sequel written by Stephen Wyatt 7th Doc will meet Churchill Regards mark687 Am in two minds about this... On the one hand, a prequel/sequel could be good and interesting - allowing Wyatt to flesh out the origins of the Psychic Circus and the aftermath of the story in the sequel. As Greatest Show was quite a good TV story (beginning of an improvement for the TV show in the 1980s I think - Season 25 is generally of a better standard), these could be quite good releases. On the other hand, I am concerned about 'sequel-itis' - there is more than a whiff of the Missing Adventures approach here with trying to 'revisit' TV stories (sequel to the Web Planet anyone?!) Surely, there is enough ideas out there for some new stories? I might be unduly pessimistic (and hope I am proved wrong) but it does worry me slightly when I see announcements like this... I liked Return To The Web Planet. And Return Of The Krotons come to that. I really kinda miss the BF subsribers Christmas specials. I've just never been sure Greatest Show is quite as good as some say. I think in context of the first two years of McCoy it's better than anything in S24 but that's not really saying much. I didn't like the sneering look at fandom in Whizz-Kid (which, if it was based off contemporary Who fandom could theoretically be a direct parody of Chris Chibnall given his TV appearance the year before!). Mags was so under-developed BF may as well have had a new character as there's so little to tie her down. And is the Ep 1 cliffhanger the worst one the show has ever done? People moan about the "cliff" in Dragonfire....Greatest Show has The Doctor asking Ace "Well, shall we go in?" as an actual cliffhanger. Exciting! The idea has promise though so a prequel and sequel, especially if written knowing the other is coming, could be special. Wyatt's Target versions of Show and Paradise Towers give the idea he's not someone who struggled with premise, but the team struggled realising his ideas. Paradise Towers should have been JG Ballard meets 2000AD...we all know what happened.
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Post by number13 on Jul 22, 2019 12:10:35 GMT
Am in two minds about this... On the one hand, a prequel/sequel could be good and interesting - allowing Wyatt to flesh out the origins of the Psychic Circus and the aftermath of the story in the sequel. As Greatest Show was quite a good TV story (beginning of an improvement for the TV show in the 1980s I think - Season 25 is generally of a better standard), these could be quite good releases. On the other hand, I am concerned about 'sequel-itis' - there is more than a whiff of the Missing Adventures approach here with trying to 'revisit' TV stories (sequel to the Web Planet anyone?!) Surely, there is enough ideas out there for some new stories? I might be unduly pessimistic (and hope I am proved wrong) but it does worry me slightly when I see announcements like this... I liked Return To The Web Planet. And Return Of The Krotons come to that. I really kinda miss the BF subsribers Christmas specials. I've just never been sure Greatest Show is quite as good as some say. I think in context of the first two years of McCoy it's better than anything in S24 but that's not really saying much. I didn't like the sneering look at fandom in Whizz-Kid (which, if it was based off contemporary Who fandom could theoretically be a direct parody of Chris Chibnall given his TV appearance the year before!). Mags was so under-developed BF may as well have had a new character as there's so little to tie her down. And is the Ep 1 cliffhanger the worst one the show has ever done? People moan about the "cliff" in Dragonfire....Greatest Show has The Doctor asking Ace "Well, shall we go in?" as an actual cliffhanger. Exciting! The idea has promise though so a prequel and sequel, especially if written knowing the other is coming, could be special. Wyatt's Target versions of Show and Paradise Towers give the idea he's not someone who struggled with premise, but the team struggled realising his ideas. Paradise Towers should have been JG Ballard meets 2000AD...we all know what happened. I see your 'circus tent entry' bad cliffhanger and raise you the 'it's a patterned floor' bad cliffhanger from 'Death to the Daleks'! (As a loyal Pertwee fan, I'd like to claim that all over the country we were afraid to walk on mosaic lino for weeks afterwards, but there are limits to my loyalty! )
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Post by Whovitt on Jul 22, 2019 12:17:14 GMT
If we're talking bad cliffhangers - Delta and the Bannermen: Part 2! The Doctor and co walk away from the Bannermen when they raise their guns and they stop walking. The Doctor says something about maybe having made a mistake. Cue credits. Next episode, they keep on walking, get on a motorbike, and drive away... Okay, maybe that's a bad resolution as opposed to a bad cliffhanger in and of itself, but the whole structural integrity of the moment makes no sense, so I think it counts
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2019 12:28:32 GMT
I liked Return To The Web Planet. And Return Of The Krotons come to that. I really kinda miss the BF subsribers Christmas specials. I've just never been sure Greatest Show is quite as good as some say. I think in context of the first two years of McCoy it's better than anything in S24 but that's not really saying much. I didn't like the sneering look at fandom in Whizz-Kid (which, if it was based off contemporary Who fandom could theoretically be a direct parody of Chris Chibnall given his TV appearance the year before!). Mags was so under-developed BF may as well have had a new character as there's so little to tie her down. And is the Ep 1 cliffhanger the worst one the show has ever done? People moan about the "cliff" in Dragonfire....Greatest Show has The Doctor asking Ace "Well, shall we go in?" as an actual cliffhanger. Exciting! The idea has promise though so a prequel and sequel, especially if written knowing the other is coming, could be special. Wyatt's Target versions of Show and Paradise Towers give the idea he's not someone who struggled with premise, but the team struggled realising his ideas. Paradise Towers should have been JG Ballard meets 2000AD...we all know what happened. I see your 'circus tent entry' bad cliffhanger and raise you the 'it's a patterned floor' bad cliffhanger from 'Death to the Daleks'! (As a loyal Pertwee fan, I'd like to claim that all over the country we were afraid to walk on mosaic lino for weeks afterwards, but there are limits to my loyalty! ) OK Number 13, you've convinced me, finally wore me down....I'm ready to admit it now - The Pertwee Era isn't that great after all At least there with the floor of Doom*, The Doctor seemed to sell us on the idea *something* was wrong. It's crap as a cliffhanger, but at least Pertwee tried selling it! We're through the looking glass here, you arguing against a Pertwee and me sticking up a defence! * One day, speaking of floors of doom, I'll find out what the "Easy as pi(e)" floor" rules are in the Five Doctors. Ainley seems to pick random tiles, completely different ones on the way back (including going over the edges) and then Hurndall and Fielding go on different ones again when they cross! It's almost like it seemed a clever idea on paper then Peter Moffat thought "Well, what does that actually mean outside of a bad pun.....OK, I'll just make it up" when actually filming it.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2019 12:31:20 GMT
If we're talking bad cliffhangers - Delta and the Bannermen: Part 2! The Doctor and co walk away from the Bannermen when they raise their guns and they stop walking. The Doctor says something about maybe having made a mistake. Cue credits. Next episode, they keep on walking, get on a motorbike, and drive away... Okay, maybe that's a bad resolution as opposed to a bad cliffhanger in and of itself, but the whole structural integrity of the moment makes no sense, so I think it counts Oh if we did bad resolutions we'd be here till Christmas. With the cliffhanger's job just to get the audience back the next week, often the resolution would take 5 seconds with an artificial cliffhanger threat removed, and then the plot goes on like nothing happens. I kinda love it. Very pulp serial!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2019 12:49:53 GMT
If we're talking bad cliffhangers - Delta and the Bannermen: Part 2! The Doctor and co walk away from the Bannermen when they raise their guns and they stop walking. The Doctor says something about maybe having made a mistake. Cue credits. Next episode, they keep on walking, get on a motorbike, and drive away... Okay, maybe that's a bad resolution as opposed to a bad cliffhanger in and of itself, but the whole structural integrity of the moment makes no sense, so I think it counts Oh if we did bad resolutions we'd be here till Christmas. With the cliffhanger's job just to get the audience back the next week, often the resolution would take 5 seconds with an artificial cliffhanger threat removed, and then the plot goes on like nothing happens. I kinda love it. Very pulp serial! Arc of Infinity's first cliffhanger a great example of that. Extremely effective in getting out of "Part One" and leaves a lasting impression on the viewer for next week, but if Maxil had, say, kneed the Doctor in the ribs, the resolution would've been largely the same. It's why we tend to enjoy cliffhangers that drop a narrative bombshell more than a physical threat. I've a strong impression that the shape of cliffhangers changed quite significantly after the introduction of the end credits sting. There were certain kinds of scenarios you couldn't quite do anymore or, at least, had to handle in a conscientiously different way. (As an aside: I'd love to conjure up another Vortis story. It's too good a world not to revisit, but I'm concerned that rabbit hole is a bit too deep for the time present. I'm way too interested in the planet's ecosystem, I'd never come back.)
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2019 16:07:54 GMT
Hmm..... A prequel to 'The Greatest Show in the Galaxy?' Could be interesting. Might even see the Chief Clown's descent into villainy. He was a proper funny and nice clown (or so we are told) before the Gods of Ragnarok began to work their influence on him. Would be strange to see him all nice and sweet at first considering how sinister he is in the story. Not sure what you would do with a sequel to the story though. Unless of course, it tied into the recent Mags trilogy that was released. Be a case of going full circle then.
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Post by constonks on Jul 22, 2019 18:02:15 GMT
Hmm..... A prequel to 'The Greatest Show in the Galaxy?' Could be interesting. Might even see the Chief Clown's descent into villainy. He was a proper funny and nice clown (or so we are told) before the Gods of Ragnarok began to work their influence on him. Would be strange to see him all nice and sweet at first considering how sinister he is in the story. Not sure what you would do with a sequel to the story though. Unless of course, it tied into the recent Mags trilogy that was released. Be a case of going full circle then. I fully expected that both of them would be Seven-Mags stories. (Although I do wonder if River will intersect with Five, Six, Seven and Eight stories in Vol. 7...)
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Post by number13 on Jul 22, 2019 23:43:39 GMT
I see your 'circus tent entry' bad cliffhanger and raise you the 'it's a patterned floor' bad cliffhanger from 'Death to the Daleks'! (As a loyal Pertwee fan, I'd like to claim that all over the country we were afraid to walk on mosaic lino for weeks afterwards, but there are limits to my loyalty! ) OK Number 13, you've convinced me, finally wore me down....I'm ready to admit it now - The Pertwee Era isn't that great after all At least there with the floor of Doom*, The Doctor seemed to sell us on the idea *something* was wrong. It's crap as a cliffhanger, but at least Pertwee tried selling it! We're through the looking glass here, you arguing against a Pertwee and me sticking up a defence! * One day, speaking of floors of doom, I'll find out what the "Easy as pi(e)" floor" rules are in the Five Doctors. Ainley seems to pick random tiles, completely different ones on the way back (including going over the edges) and then Hurndall and Fielding go on different ones again when they cross! It's almost like it seemed a clever idea on paper then Peter Moffat thought "Well, what does that actually mean outside of a bad pun.....OK, I'll just make it up" when actually filming it. Oh the DTTD floor is easy to defend - it was never intended to be a cliffhanger, it just happened that way because of issues with episode length.
With TGSITG, since we already know the Big Top is dangerous, seeing the Doctor and Ace about to walk into that danger does qualify as a cliff-hanger I think - we want to know what will happen to them next week once they get inside.
The Five Doctors floor puzzle is set by and for Time Lords and thus can only be solved if one uses pi not in relation to a circle or even a sphere, but the equivalent fourth-dimensional shape. *
('Hmmm! I would have thought that was self-evident...' )
*this is definitely true because I just thought of it.
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Post by Whovitt on Jul 23, 2019 0:17:16 GMT
OK Number 13, you've convinced me, finally wore me down....I'm ready to admit it now - The Pertwee Era isn't that great after all At least there with the floor of Doom*, The Doctor seemed to sell us on the idea *something* was wrong. It's crap as a cliffhanger, but at least Pertwee tried selling it! We're through the looking glass here, you arguing against a Pertwee and me sticking up a defence! * One day, speaking of floors of doom, I'll find out what the "Easy as pi(e)" floor" rules are in the Five Doctors. Ainley seems to pick random tiles, completely different ones on the way back (including going over the edges) and then Hurndall and Fielding go on different ones again when they cross! It's almost like it seemed a clever idea on paper then Peter Moffat thought "Well, what does that actually mean outside of a bad pun.....OK, I'll just make it up" when actually filming it. Oh the DTTD floor is easy to defend - it was never intended to be a cliffhanger, it just happened that way because of issues with episode length. Genuine question here: is this true? I've heard many arguments for and against it. Some say it's fact, others say it's a fan myth. Is there a special feature/interview somewhere categorically stating what the truth of the matter is?
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Post by number13 on Jul 23, 2019 6:56:08 GMT
Oh the DTTD floor is easy to defend - it was never intended to be a cliffhanger, it just happened that way because of issues with episode length. Genuine question here: is this true? I've heard many arguments for and against it. Some say it's fact, others say it's a fan myth. Is there a special feature/interview somewhere categorically stating what the truth of the matter is? I've not been a part of 'fandom' ever really (which may come as a surprise given the time I spend on here ) so I've missed hearing most of the fan myths. If I think I know anything about a production, chances are that either
A) I'm wrong B) It's sourced from me remembering the relevant DVD 'making of', commentary or production subtitles. (Which does not preclude A) because I'm doing the remembering )
I believe that in the current instance we are looking at option B) but if it's A) again... Facts 1, number13 nil
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2019 7:42:46 GMT
Genuine question here: is this true? I've heard many arguments for and against it. Some say it's fact, others say it's a fan myth. Is there a special feature/interview somewhere categorically stating what the truth of the matter is? I've not been a part of 'fandom' ever really (which may come as a surprise given the time I spend on here ) so I've missed hearing most of the fan myths. If I think I know anything about a production, chances are that either
A) I'm wrong B) It's sourced from me remembering the relevant DVD 'making of', commentary or production subtitles. (Which does not preclude A) because I'm doing the remembering )
I believe that in the current instance we are looking at option B) but if it's A) again... Facts 1, number13 nil
I've a distinct memory of it being in the Production Notes of the DVD as I remember comparing it with The Robots of Death, which had a very similar issue (the original cliffhanger for "Part One" was D84 advancing on Leela). I'm a bit hazy on what the actual cliffhanger was supposed to be, though. I think it was going to be that smash zoom to the Dalek gunstick as the Doctor and Bellal try to get into the City. The arrangement of the novelisation's chapters would seem to bear that out. What's rather interesting about Season 11 is Terrance Dicks is script-editing, true, but Bob Holmes is also there in the background learning some of the ropes. His role isn't particularly prominent outside of The Time Warrior, but there are slight traces of his influence here and there. Death to the Daleks I think is one of them.
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dorney
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Post by dorney on Jul 23, 2019 11:39:24 GMT
It’s true - the episode lengths in the Pertwee years struggle quite a bit - there’s about three cliffhangers that got altered in Planet of Spiders for example.
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dorney
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Post by dorney on Jul 23, 2019 12:30:31 GMT
It’s true - the episode lengths in the Pertwee years struggle quite a bit - there’s about three cliffhangers that got altered in Planet of Spiders for example. Related to this - the Letts/Dicks years have some insanely long cliffhanger reprises (top of Robot 3, Sea Devils 3) to get the episodes to length. They really struggled with that, I think!
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Post by Digi on Jul 23, 2019 20:05:16 GMT
I don’t know what Keeping Faith is but
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mbt66
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Post by mbt66 on Jul 23, 2019 20:27:59 GMT
It’s true - the episode lengths in the Pertwee years struggle quite a bit - there’s about three cliffhangers that got altered in Planet of Spiders for example. Related to this - the Letts/Dicks years have some insanely long cliffhanger reprises (top of Robot 3, Sea Devils 3) to get the episodes to length. They really struggled with that, I think! Fortunately Big Finish have no such restrictions! At least since Nick Briggs relaxed the 25min per episode requirement.
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Post by Ela on Jul 23, 2019 22:28:30 GMT
I don’t know what Keeping Faith is but It's a Welsh TV series starring Eve Myles. I read about it a while back, but have never watched it.
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Post by project37 on Jul 23, 2019 23:14:18 GMT
Perhaps a bit anti-climactic for the super-fans here, as I'm guessing this has already been in our accounts for some time.
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Post by Digi on Jul 23, 2019 23:26:05 GMT
Perhaps a bit anti-climactic for the super-fans here, as I'm guessing this has already been in our accounts for some time.
A bit But hey, anything to get new fans aboard -- especially if it means enhancing the odds of getting more Blind Terror!
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Post by mark687 on Jul 24, 2019 9:13:56 GMT
Regards
mark687
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