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Post by Trace on Jul 6, 2016 2:29:44 GMT
Sounds like a good plan! And don't you dare throw Hawkes Harbor into the bin! People were way too hard on it, with the biggest criticism being that the author didn't know what genre she wanted her book to be. And diehard DS fans cried foul over the sex. It's spoken of graphically but there are no outright sex scenes.
Look, if anyone comes to ANY of these books expecting literature, they get what they deserve. If you go into Hawkes Harbor or ANY of the others with an expectation for a sometimes scary, passionate, fun, fanciful tale about people we have come to know (or perhaps parallel counterparts to them), you'll enjoy the ride. It has moments of humor, moments of horror, moments of WHAT the HELL?!?!? but never quite enters the world of intentional spoof or camp like Tim Burton's film.
ENJOY!!!
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Post by barnabaslives on Jul 6, 2016 16:53:14 GMT
I must be losing my mind. I looked through three copies of Dreams of the Dark trying to find the map I thought I remembered so well. In the third one I find a hand drawn map on a folded sheet of paper that somebody had stuck in one of the copies. SORRY. Hey, it's been what, 17 years since this book came out? This book's descriptions of the estate were so vividly written that somebody drew it out on paper when reading it. Apparently that's what I saw. I do seem to recall Rainey saying something about patterning the layout of the estate after Lyndhurst or something like that, but I'd better not quote anything from memory. Don't feel bad, I think I just went through every second of Joan Bennett appearing in the 1970 PT story looking for a reference to a Collins ancestor that for the third time doesn't actually seem to be there and it hasn't been more than two years since I last saw that wherever it is. Don't know if it might be the one you're thinking of but the Dark Shadows Wiki has a hand-drawn map of Collinsport by Jean Graham - it's very intriguing but I'm not quite sure about the scale, seems like it would be a much quicker trip to and from town from the Collins estate than some of the show's dialog indicates? darkshadows.wikia.com/wiki/Collinsport
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Post by Zagreus on Jul 8, 2016 0:14:26 GMT
Angelique's Descent, Dreams of the Dark, Hawkes Harbor, and The Salem Branch have all arrived, so I think it's safe to start! Wolf Moon Rising should be arriving tomorrow, but I don't think I'll be getting to it quite that quickly EDIT: And Wolf Moon Rising arrived while I was out getting ice-cream, so, uh, yeah!
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Post by Zagreus on Jul 8, 2016 16:29:15 GMT
Is the 1971 framing sequence for Angelique's Descent only in the beginning and end?
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Post by Trace on Jul 9, 2016 1:02:08 GMT
If I recall correctly, yes it is...but I think the end one is quite extensive.
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Post by Zagreus on Jul 10, 2016 5:44:19 GMT
Dark Shadows: Angelique's Descent( Angelique - c1784 to 1796 / Barnabas - 1971) I'll be evaluating this in light of what of the show I've seen (Angelique hasn't even shown up yet) and the BF audios (of which I've heard all of them). The original plan was to listen to the audio again (only heard it once, a while back, and I was much less familiar with Dark Shadows at the time) and then read this, but I've descided to just dive right into the book, as its pages called to me Chapter 1We start out with a 1971 framing sequence that isn't present in the BF reading. Barnabas is human again. Or rather, Barnabas is mostly cured of his vampiric tendancies, but still has his urges. He's engaged to Julia (Roger does not approve ). Angelique's headstone lists 1774 - 1796. Assuming the journal starts when she's six or so, I will need to revise the dates in my timeline a bit. Trace, what are your thoughts on where "Trask the Exorcist" from Echoes of the Past should be placed? Also, uh, why is Angey a ghost? I thought she was alive and well in this time period? I missing something from the latter half of the show? Chapter 2David has yet to be sent off to boarding school I see. Okay I get that Angelique's likely I need to stop swearing with him, but I'm not clear on why at the moment. I mean, I know "why", generally, but I was talking more "why, in this specific instance". Like, I thought they were sort of on good terms there at the end of the show and she was off living in The Old House, from what I'd read. And yet, this book opened with her dead & ghostly, apparently, and The Old House set to be demolished. Like, what? Anyway, fire, Old House burnt out, journal, yada yada you know the drill. Chapter 3The rest of the book up to the last two chapters or so recounts the events from Angelique's early childhood, circa 1780, up through her dooming Barnabas to vampirism and dying, in 1796. Interesting stuff right off the bat. Am I to understand that her mother was dark-skinned? Her father makes a comment about Angelique being able to pass, due to her light skin, but it would be a problem if her mother were around. Ah, yes, they confirm that a few pages later, confirming that her mother's mother had been a freed slave. Her father... I'm not sure what to think of him, though what I do isn't perhaps the best. Okay nevermind, I hate him. Chapter 4Some of the onlookers guestimate Angelique's age here to be around "no more than nine or ten", so, around 1784ish? Ah, I see he hasn't made it public knowledge that she's his kid. Understandable, if unfortunate. :/ The template for Angey's new life is troubling. It's... difficult, seeing how innocent she is, and knowing that she's going to go through hell later. Quite literally. Chapter 5Her father... seems very much a product of the time. Like, at the moment, he doesn't seem inherintly evil, per se, more like maybe not the best person, who has had to make some hard choices, and knows that they maybe weren't the best. He genuinely seems a little upset about having to use Angelique like this, but has decided that this is what's going to be done, for the sake of the plantation's prosperity. A hard man. An actual character. I wonder who would have played him, had this been an arc in the show? And, really, what is it with Dark Shadows and locking people in tower rooms? Chapter 6Oh the carnival! Perhaps she gets to have some fun? No? Ah well. At least they're not drugging her anymore. She seems to have accepted her lot in life for the time being. Which is quite sad, really :/ I'd say she's foolish for believing that this goddess might show up and free her from all this, but this is Dark Shadows and I know better. Heck, Goddess might show up with friends, stay for tea, and marry Angey's father. I've seen weirder storylines come out of this franchise Oh hey I know that kid. And this, this is where it all begins, it seems. Man, I want an ouanga. And that's... that's where I think I'm going to leave it for this post. Good so far. Enjoying it.
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Post by omega on Jul 10, 2016 5:52:24 GMT
Trace, what are your thoughts on where "Trask the Exorcist" from Echoes of the Past should be placed? Trask the Exorcist pretty much sets him up on the path for dealing with supernatural creatures. I'd give it a few years before the 1795/6 storyline, long enough for Trask to get a big enough reputation in Salem for Abigail to hear about him.
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Post by Trace on Jul 10, 2016 21:06:45 GMT
That's pretty much where I'm going with it as well--circa 1790 or 91. I've put it on my chronology as c1790. And, I do have Angelique's Descent on there, but only the abridged version released by BF, as I still consider the rest of the novel and all other novels to be part of a different continuity (until told otherwise by BF brass). Someday I should expand my chronologies into all the various parallel universes...one for the Marilyn Ross books, one for the films, one for the comics (all three versions), one for the '91 series....but even thinking of it threatens to crack the (somewhat tenuous) foundation of my hold on reality! I may need a sedative. JULIA!!!!!!! WHERE ARE YOU?
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Post by Zagreus on Jul 17, 2016 17:51:26 GMT
Dark Shadows: Angelique's Descent (Angelique - early Childhood to circa 1795 / Barnabas circa 1971ish)
Sorry I haven't gotten to this much. Work-related stuff keeps getting in the way. I'm still at it though!
Chapter 7
We dip back into 1971 for a bit. Barnabas is rightfully a little shocked to learn that Angelique was the strange pagan "goddess" he stumbled across in his youth. Whoops.
Julia doesn't want him reading the journal, probably for good reason.
I can just hear Roger's voice in my head as he excitedly goes on about business ventures. It's great hahah. It's unfortunate, though understandable, that he's such a background character in the audios. Would be an interesting experiment to just have a economic horror audio, starring Roger, as an anonymous person tries to blackmail him or something, and he's dealing with all this business stuff and corporate espionage and backstabbing and keeping the board happy while, like, there's a leviathan attack going on in the background. Or something.
Wait, the Collinses own that plantation house? Interesting. You know, all the 1971 stuff is rather fascinating, in it's own way. I mean, I greatly enjoyed the audio, but it contained only the stuff in the journal, Angelique's story. The interwoven "present day" bits are also quite good!
Ah, there's been some murderin. Of course. Someone (or some thing, perhaps?) doesn't want the Old House finished off.
Barnabas having performance anxiety about his upcoming honeymoon is, in its own way, adorable.
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Post by Zagreus on Jul 18, 2016 16:10:14 GMT
That's a lovely print! Did you do that through Lulu or something?
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Post by Trace on Jul 19, 2016 2:00:44 GMT
Found that book I'd been looking for. Or rather our dog found it under the bed. I'd let my reading stack get so big, that it fell over awhile back. I need to finish this one, because it was pretty good. I wish BF would dramatize some of these as well as publish some of these paperback novels. It looks great!! I have the pdf version but it doesn't have a preface!
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Post by Zagreus on Jul 19, 2016 3:09:12 GMT
That preface is from the author's website.
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Post by joehart1962 on Jul 19, 2016 4:58:39 GMT
Lara has consistently grown and improved as a writer. "Angelique's Descent" was OK, but frankly I was bored by it. It was very derivative of the original series. "The Salem's Branch" was much more interesting -- and it moved the post-TV series 1971 plot along considerably. "Wolf Moon Rising" was just brilliant, filled with so many twists and sidesteps and new developments that I had trouble putting it down. It also boasts one of the creepiest sequences in DS history -- the poor exterminator who's sent into the cellar of Collinwood because the family keeps hearing banging sounds downstairs (!!!) and think they have rats. Think again! It's the work of a mature writer who's grown confident in her own abilities to plot and deliver a compelling story.
(Interestingly enough, during a conversation we had at a non-DS autograph show, Lara was very appreciative of my opinion since many "traditional" DS fans only want to hear the same old stories over and over again. When I told her the basement sequence was my favorite scene in the novel, she said it was hers as well!)
As far as where these novels fit in the DS cannon or in the Big Finish continuity -- I don't think they're an easy fit anywhere. I just think of them as another path in parallel time, what might have happened if certain characters had made different choices ... and they result in highly entertaining tales.
Looking forward to "The Mistress of Collinwood."
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Post by Zagreus on Jul 19, 2016 5:45:38 GMT
On one hand, I'm glad she has made the artistic decision to not let the audios get in the way of her writing the story she wants to write, but on the other hand I like it when everything fits nicely.
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Post by coldlazarou on Jul 20, 2016 9:48:58 GMT
On one hand, I'm glad she has made the artistic decision to not let the audios get in the way of her writing the story she wants to write, but on the other hand I like it when everything fits nicely. I'm with you. As I heard another fan say, "I don't like it when something unnecessarily contradicts the canon." All her novels are interesting and, until the BF audios, the only thing extending the stories from the show. Each novel has its merits. Angelique's Descent was a refreshing grown-up return to DS after the show had been gone at least 25 years. Yes, the last half was repetitive of 1795 and she seemed bored with it. The Salem Branch was intricate, with some nice scenes. She really seems creative when she's not writing about the main characters (sometimes wonder if she hates them). Wolf Moon Rising is particularly smooth and a pleasant read. Like a little two-week flashback to the past would have been on the show -- like 1995 or the 1796 flashback where Barnabas went to save Vicki (and by two weeks, I only mean about how many episodes the TV show might have made of it, not how long the characters actually think they spent there). What I know of The Heiress of Collinwood is it'll be the most different. Can't say more. Rainey's Dreams of the Dark was good and I recommend it highly. There again, the new characters have a freshness. I'll always remember someone describing this as "Vicki gets a hand job." Well, yes, our little Vicki became a woman in that one. Lara has some sex in hers, too, but I don't remember any in Wolf Moon Rising. I had hoped she would get around to having a threesome between Barnabas, Maggie & Antoinette/Angelique, or maybe even Barnabas-Angelique-Quentin but, alas, it wasn't to be. I suppose there's always fanfiction.net for that type of thing...?
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Post by barnabaslives on Jul 20, 2016 20:08:46 GMT
Lara has consistently grown and improved as a writer. "Angelique's Descent" was OK, but frankly I was bored by it. It was very derivative of the original series. "The Salem's Branch" was much more interesting -- and it moved the post-TV series 1971 plot along considerably. I'm not sure if I ever made it all the way through Angelique's Descent, for all kinds of reasons apart from Lara or her writing. Still looking forward to it though - whatever happens I think I appreciate the attempt to fill information about Barnabas and Angelique. For me it makes her seem perfectly deranged and very scary to be willing to extract so much vengeance over a dalliance, but sometimes it make me want to understand more about it, especially the more Angelique might become a little less of a villainess. Lara has a gift for drawing inspiration from selected real-life events and I think she's really good at finding things that I think are scarier or more poignant to me because they so resemble real events. I was almost a little mad at her over the Old House but then I thought, "Wow, that really happened - in reality!" As far as where these novels fit in the DS cannon or in the Big Finish continuity -- I don't think they're an easy fit anywhere. I just think of them as another path in parallel time, what might have happened if certain characters had made different choices ... and they result in highly entertaining tales. That's a great way of thinking of them. It very much suits the idea of Parallel Time being a place to see stories that we wouldn't ordinarily see, but that can have strong similarities to the storylines we know. I keep forgetting whether The Flip Side affords us the opportunity to think of them that way, although it might as well have since it is brilliant about giving us the chance to think of DS movies as such. With that deft gesture, Cody Schell has carved out a place in my video collection for Burton/Depp DS, which at the very least borders on a miracle, no matter how easy Cody is making it look.
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Post by barnabaslives on Jul 20, 2016 20:29:12 GMT
Rainey's Dreams of the Dark was good and I recommend it highly. There again, the new characters have a freshness. I'll always remember someone describing this as "Vicki gets a hand job." Well, yes, our little Vicki became a woman in that one. Lara has some sex in hers, too, but I don't remember any in Wolf Moon Rising. I had hoped she would get around to having a threesome between Barnabas, Maggie & Antoinette/Angelique, or maybe even Barnabas-Angelique-Quentin but, alas, it wasn't to be. Sigh, I suppose I'm going to need more details about Vicki, many moons from now when I quit cracking up. Now that you mention it, I think maybe a Barnabas-Josette-Angelique threesome might go further to explain most of the things the Collinses have suffered, than a one-night-stand between Barnabas and Angelique.
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Post by Trace on Jul 21, 2016 5:53:52 GMT
Lara has consistently grown and improved as a writer. "Angelique's Descent" was OK, but frankly I was bored by it. It was very derivative of the original series. "The Salem's Branch" was much more interesting -- and it moved the post-TV series 1971 plot along considerably. I'm not sure if I ever made it all the way through Angelique's Descent, for all kinds of reasons apart from Lara or her writing. Still looking forward to it though - whatever happens I think I appreciate the attempt to fill information about Barnabas and Angelique. For me it makes her seem perfectly deranged and very scary to be willing to extract so much vengeance over a dalliance, but sometimes it make me want to understand more about it, especially the more Angelique might become a little less of a villainess. Lara has a gift for drawing inspiration from selected real-life events and I think she's really good at finding things that I think are scarier or more poignant to me because they so resemble real events. I was almost a little mad at her over the Old House but then I thought, "Wow, that really happened - in reality!" As far as where these novels fit in the DS cannon or in the Big Finish continuity -- I don't think they're an easy fit anywhere. I just think of them as another path in parallel time, what might have happened if certain characters had made different choices ... and they result in highly entertaining tales. That's a great way of thinking of them. It very much suits the idea of Parallel Time being a place to see stories that we wouldn't ordinarily see, but that can have strong similarities to the storylines we know. I keep forgetting whether The Flip Side affords us the opportunity to think of them that way, although it might as well have since it is brilliant about giving us the chance to think of DS movies as such. With that deft gesture, Cody Schell has carved out a place in my video collection for Burton/Depp DS, which at the very least borders on a miracle, no matter how easy Cody is making it look. It's how I've always thought of them...the best way, really, because I have loved every incarnation of DS and there are so many contradictions/inconsistencies between the various media (and sometimes even with itself!). Parallel times just makes the most sense, and the theory already has a basis in the original series. These are the many timelines: The OS, followed by the Big Finish audios and Return to Collinwood The OS, followed by Sam Hall's written postscript for TV guide The Marilyn Ross novels HODS & NODS The Gold Key Comics and Story Digest The OS, followed by Lara's novels 1991 Series, followed by Innovation Comics 2004 WB pilot Depp/Burton DS The OS, followed by the Dynamite comics, main series Dynamite comics, Year One series Dynamite comics, DS/Vampirella crossover Mark Rainey's 2 books Hawkes Harbor Am I forgetting anything?
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Post by Zagreus on Jul 23, 2016 17:05:40 GMT
Still slowly working my way through Angelique's Descent. Managed to steal through another few chapters without life getting too int eh way.
Perhaps because I've heard the audio, but I'm more interested in the 1971 storyline than I am in the journal entries. I already know what happens to Angelique in the past, I want to hear about Barnabas and Julia in the present!
There's another vampire around, apparently, who's behind the efforts to not get the Old House knocked down, and Julia seems to have taken an interest in the journal herself.
I imagine it'll be easier going through the other books, as I won't effectively be reading something that I've already been through 75% of before.
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Post by Zagreus on Aug 6, 2016 18:11:02 GMT
So I finished Angelique's Descent. The note-taking was seriously slowing me down, so I just abandoned it in favor of actually reading the book. As I said, I'd heard the past stuff before, in the audio release, bar the new chapter or so at the end.
The present day stuff was, however, quite interesting, as I'd not encountered it before. Am I to take it that the new owner of the old house is Angelique by yet another name? Why wouldn't Roger recognize her as his wife? Or has she bewitched him (again (again))?
Speaking of which, I had gotten my timelines mixed up earlier. Angelique's not actually around in the audios during this period, is she? She doesn't really show up again until the Tony & Cassandra stuff. So I guess there's plenty of room there (well, a few years) for her to show up again as "Cassandra" and start reintegrating herself into high society.
Yes, the Old House had a fire, but they state that it wasn't completely burned down, and it's my understanding that the new totally-not-Angelique owner wants to have it completely restored, so that's no issue.
It seems to me that it's a rather common trope to have a new vampire running around for a story or so. Happens in a couple of the other novels as well, yes?
So, final rambling thought, the 1971 segments basically serve as a prologue to The Salem Branch, yes? I'll get there eventually.
Next up, Dreams of the Dark, featuring Vicki!
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