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Post by nucleusofswarm on Dec 17, 2016 0:21:04 GMT
Destiny of the Daleks was good for its first half, then pretty much falls apart. City of Death is a masterpiece, no doubt. Creature from the Pit was rather a waste that the show would be no poorer without. A damn shame because it's one of the more professional productions this season, but the story has little of merit. Nightmare of Eden had potential but it's an out of control mess that makes me feel kinda queasy, and Tom Baker does get rather insufferable here. Horns of Nimon I think is far better than its reputation. The problem is the previous two stories conspire to make it seem a lot more samey, indistinct and low on inspiration. I think even the season's worst moments are nowhere near the lows of the coming JNT era, or indeed some of RTD's. It was a far cry from the Hinchcliffe golden age, but I still think of it as representing Doctor Who 'before the fall'. I've certainly noticed Eden seemed to gotten a 'lost potential' reputation alot more as of late. Possibly after it got wider exposure on DVD.
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Post by constonks on Dec 18, 2016 5:12:54 GMT
Oooh I had a more positive answer and then mark687 mentioned David Brierly. As for the serials of the season: - I remember 0% of The Creature From the Pit except it was apparently the first Brierly K9 serial. - I only remember the cheesiness of The Horns of Nimon. - I love Shada and City of Death. - I think Nightmare on Eden is a cool concept and is worth a rewatch. Moffat recently talked about how much he liked it in DWM, as well. - And Destiny of the Daleks is not great but I liked it when I watched it. All in all, mixed bag. Not a whole lot weaker than 16, although the arc helped move things along in that season. I'd guess I'd put it halfway down a list of Classic Who seasons?EDIT: Actually! I just made a list cause I was curious where it ended up and it was 21st: Season 14 Season 26 Season 10 Season 12 Season 13
Season 8 Season 7 Season 9 Season 4 Season 2
Season 1 Season 6 Season 3 Season 15 Season 5
Season 18 Season 25 Season 16 Season 11 Season 20
Season 17 Season 19 Season 23 Season 21 Season 24 Season 22
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Post by Timelord007 on Dec 18, 2016 8:49:45 GMT
Barring the awful pantomime effort of The Horns Of Nimon, i enjoyed it on the whole, City Of Death being my personal highlight.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2016 19:40:02 GMT
Barring the awful pantomime effort of The Horns Of Nimon, i enjoyed it on the whole, City Of Death being my personal highlight. Even The Horns of Nimon is enjoyable in its own funny way, even if it's for all the wrong reasons... "MY DREEEAAAMS OF CONQUEST!" and "You meddling hussy!" stand out as unintentional highlights. I wonder what the story would have looked like if it had been done in the JNT era with all seriousness?
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shutupbanks
Castellan
There’s a horror movie called Alien? That’s really offensive. No wonder everyone keeps invading you.
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Post by shutupbanks on Dec 18, 2016 22:06:44 GMT
Barring the awful pantomime effort of The Horns Of Nimon, i enjoyed it on the whole, City Of Death being my personal highlight. Even The Horns of Nimon is enjoyable in its own funny way, even if it's for all the wrong reasons... "MY DREEEAAAMS OF CONQUEST!" and "You meddling hussy!" stand out as unintentional highlights. I wonder what the story would have looked like if it had been done in the JNT era with all seriousness? Just going to leave this here... www.youtube.com/watch?v=98MxxpzIoyg
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Post by nucleusofswarm on Dec 21, 2016 19:06:49 GMT
Season 17 wasn't that good. City of Death was, of course, amazing, and the novelisation of Shada is very good, but none of the rest of the stories were anything special. None of them were awful, but none were particularly memorable. Romana II is one of my favorite companions though. Still, I doubt any of us envied Adams in that position. The workload was probably the biggest any script editor or other creative force behind Who has had to juggle in its history. It's eerie how similar it is to Moffat's position i.e. working on two British cultural phenomena at once.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2016 19:49:53 GMT
Perhaps its partly nostalgia, but I love Series 17 - although it has to be said, it gets progressively cheaper looking as it goes along. I loved Romana 2, thought she was the ideal companion for Tom's larger-than-life Fourth Doctor.
Destiny of the Daleks - terrific, terrific fun. The Daleks are criticised for looking battered - but within the fiction, they are losing a war for the first time in their existence, so they're bound to be in rough condition. Same for Davros really - shot at point blank range by the race he lived to create and awoke after years of suspended animation. Poor blighter's clearly in need of some TLC.
City of Death - lovely. The Doctor and Romana hand-in-hand in Paris, where the splintered remains of the Jagaroth is ensuring 'the whole world takes a funny turn.' Wonderful dialogue too.
Creature from the Pit - a great three parter. Unfortunately they had to stretch it out to four. Thus, the final episode is virtually superfluous. Lovely filming, splendid villains and unique monster!
Nightmare on Eden - like 'The Invisible Enemy' a couple of years before, this could have been terrifying, but family-friendly production values made sure it was a lot more cosy than the script merited. Minus points for 'my arms, my legs, my everything', but against that, who honestly doesn't love The Mandrels?
The Horns of Nimon - Graham Crowden has been praised for his playful performance, but for me personally, an actor over-acting is simply not doing his job! He undermines everything. Compare his performance to that of John Bailey as Sezom - two very different characters admittedly. Perhaps Crowden was encouraged to play it that way, certainly the cast seemed to enjoy him. But when the rest of the production is ... a little low budget, it needs the support of its crew, and Soldeed's dreams of conquest worked against that. Enjoyable but far too OTT for me.
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Post by eric009 on Dec 28, 2016 2:14:05 GMT
Destiny of the Daleks was i hared because of too easy to stop Movellans removing their power packs on the side of the body with that weakest how did they become a power to stop the daleks 5/10 City of Death 10/10 Creature from the Pit would have been better as 3 parter 7/10 Nightmare of Eden would be better if the lighting had be darker 5/10 Horns of Nimon could have been alot better Graham Crowden ham it up was the one thing i did not mind so 6/10
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Post by icecreamdf on Dec 28, 2016 7:41:59 GMT
Destiny of the Daleks was i hared because of too easy to stop Movellans removing their power packs on the side of the body with that weakest how did they become a power to stop the daleks 5/10 The Daleks couldn't remove the Movellans' power packs, because they don't have hands.
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Post by sherlock on Dec 28, 2016 9:22:15 GMT
Destiny of the Daleks was i hared because of too easy to stop Movellans removing their power packs on the side of the body with that weakest how did they become a power to stop the daleks 5/10 I've got something of a soft spot for Destiny. Granted the Movellans aren't realised particularly well but I still enjoy it. If nothing else it's a rare story where the Daleks threaten to kill people to control the Doctor and actually follow through on it.
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Post by paulmorris7777 on Dec 28, 2016 9:41:40 GMT
An increase in budget would have helped enormously.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2016 10:20:21 GMT
Destiny of the Daleks was i hared because of too easy to stop Movellans removing their power packs on the side of the body with that weakest how did they become a power to stop the daleks 5/10 I've got something of a soft spot for Destiny. Granted the Movellans aren't realised particularly well but I still enjoy it. If nothing else it's a rare story where the Daleks threaten to kill people to control the Doctor and actually follow through on it. It's pretty chilling in the novelisation, the Doctor capitulates because the Daleks are about to kill a young girl. He jumps up and starts screaming at them to stop it. His conviction is such that Davros panics when the Doctor says he doesn't care that he'll die when the bomb goes off. If another person is exterminated, he'll destroy himself and their creator along with him. Destiny's a pretty solid story aside from a few major glaring flaws in the script and production. It would have been very atmospheric had they possessed enough money to film it at night as originally intended, it would have probably looked a lot like the surface of Cygnus Alpha from Blake's 7. Romana's regeneration is still a bit naff even today, I'd have liked to see Mary Tamm regenerate from radiation exposure and have Lalla Ward pop up beside the Doctor as he's digging through her grave to find her.
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Post by eric009 on Dec 30, 2016 23:03:05 GMT
Destiny of the Daleks was i hared because of too easy to stop Movellans removing their power packs on the side of the body with that weakest how did they become a power to stop the daleks 5/10 The Daleks couldn't remove the Movellans' power packs, because they don't have hands. but they could still shoot they off
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Post by icecreamdf on Dec 30, 2016 23:53:36 GMT
The Daleks couldn't remove the Movellans' power packs, because they don't have hands. but they could still shoot they off Yeah, but the Movellans would anticipate that the Daleks would do that, and the Daleks would anticipate that the Movellans would anticipate them doing that, and then both sides would tie at rock, paper, scissors.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2016 0:28:23 GMT
but they could still shoot they off Yeah, but the Movellans would anticipate that the Daleks would do that, and the Daleks would anticipate that the Movellans would anticipate them doing that, and then both sides would tie at rock, paper, scissors. Which begs the question, where did the idea for the Movellan virus come from?
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Post by omega on Dec 31, 2016 0:58:57 GMT
Yeah, but the Movellans would anticipate that the Daleks would do that, and the Daleks would anticipate that the Movellans would anticipate them doing that, and then both sides would tie at rock, paper, scissors. Which begs the question, where did the idea for the Movellan virus come from? The Movellans observed a separate conflict that the Daleks didn't, one that was resolved or one side gained an advantage using a virus? The Movellans don't detect Daleks in the vicinity, and decide to copy the tactic. And it works.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2016 1:08:45 GMT
Which begs the question, where did the idea for the Movellan virus come from? The Movellans observed a separate conflict that the Daleks didn't, one that was resolved or one side gained an advantage using a virus? The Movellans don't detect Daleks in the vicinity, and decide to copy the tactic. And it works. Using the knowledge that they may have gained from the Doctor's presence in Destiny of the Daleks as a rogue party. Hey, that's a really good theory.
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Post by icecreamdf on Dec 31, 2016 7:13:30 GMT
The Movellans observed a separate conflict that the Daleks didn't, one that was resolved or one side gained an advantage using a virus? The Movellans don't detect Daleks in the vicinity, and decide to copy the tactic. And it works. Using the knowledge that they may have gained from the Doctor's presence in Destiny of the Daleks as a rogue party. Hey, that's a really good theory. Or they found some other non-robot to help them.
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Post by omega on Dec 31, 2016 8:32:26 GMT
Using the knowledge that they may have gained from the Doctor's presence in Destiny of the Daleks as a rogue party. Hey, that's a really good theory. Or they found some other non-robot to help them. The end result is that the stalemate was ended by Resurrection of the Daleks, with the Movellans using a virus to get enough advantage over the Daleks to convince them Davros was the answer. To be fair, recovering Davros was their original strategy in Destiny but in Resurrection they had a specific reason to revive him.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2016 10:05:59 GMT
Or they found some other non-robot to help them. The end result is that the stalemate was ended by Resurrection of the Daleks, with the Movellans using a virus to get enough advantage over the Daleks to convince them Davros was the answer. To be fair, recovering Davros was their original strategy in Destiny but in Resurrection they had a specific reason to revive him. Two points to the Daleks in Resurrection for their Supreme showing enough independent thought as to plot against Davros and consider Gallifreyan High Council a viable target for infiltration and assassination by their duplicates. Not so impressive was that they had to seek out their creator to solve a problem that they themselves seemed incapable of fixing, despite their extensive understanding of virology (re: The Dalek Invasion of Earth, Planet of the Daleks, et al.). The audio Davros really does paint an excellent picture of why he's so bitter towards his own creations. That intervening period of living the same moment over and over again must have left a lot of resentment towards the Daleks and the Doctor for putting him there.
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